All Ireland football final 2nd September 2018 - MOD NOTE POST #1 #1187 UPDATED

WanderlustIre

So lads and lasses we may as well move away from semi final thread to a final thread.

Dublin V Tyrone

I think it has the potential to be a Dublin steam train if Tyrone do not implement the correct plan of action. As of yet Dublin haven’t kicked on, I think we will see 1 2 more tweaks to a final team but my prediction is Dublin by 4 or more.

Mod Note: Just a friendly warning, any abuse (of other posters, players and managers) will be met with a ban until after the game.
Any trolling or deliberately winding up other fans will be met with the same sanction.
Report any offending posts. If you react to abuse/trolling with abuse, you'll also be banned.
This is your first and final warning.

djPSB

Just announce the Dubs as the winners now.

Save Tyrone the journey.

dobman88

Watching Dublin all year they just look in cruise mode and it looks like no matter what a team throws at them they will have an answer. Even yesterday, Galway looked in the game at half time but Dublin came out, kicked it up a notch for a few minutes, rattled off a few points without reply and that was that.

Dublin are the only team recently that have 3 or 4 plans for a game if the one they're using isn't working. Pains me to say it but they're bloody fantastic to watch. They'll stroll past Tyrone and win the 4 in a row without doubt. Next year will be the biggest test, the holy grail of 5 in a row. I just hope whatever county plays them in next year's final has a Seamus Darby character waiting in the long grass.

Dublin to win this year by at least 5 points and Tyrone will be happy to gave acquitted themselves pretty well all year.

Bret Hart

Dublin by 6 or more. Only complacency will stop this Dublin team from making history. Jim will make sure they won't be.COYBIB.

flandabieduzie

Can't imagine there will be any trouble getting tickets for this one....

threeball

flandabieduzie wrote: »

Can't imagine there will be any trouble getting tickets for this one....

There'll be plenty of space round the tv's too. It'll be the least watched final in decades I'd imagine. Even dyed in the wool gaa fans won't be bothered if they miss this one.

kala85

The only thing is Tyrone Dublin semi final last year had an attendance of 82300, and traditionally you have a few thousand from non competing counties at an all Ireland.

mfceiling

I'm originally from Tyrone and to be honest I'm not bothered going to the final.
The dubs are a class act and well above any team from any county.
They'll win the final handy enough. Their scoring percentage is phenomenal. Tyrone kick too many wides or short dropped kicks. Not good enough.
I'd love to see the 2005 tyrone team against this dublin team!!

dxhound2005

threeball wrote: »

There'll be plenty of space round the tv's too. It'll be the least watched final in decades I'd imagine. Even dyed in the wool gaa fans won't be bothered if they miss this one.

RTE have not published their advertising charges for September yet, at least that I can find. But this month they were charging €11,000 for a 30 second advertising spot during the football semi finals. 30 seconds during the hurling final will cost you €35,000. From memory the football final was more expensive in previous years, so it will be interesting to see if your speculation will be matched by a reduction in advertising charges.

The ads during big GAA broadcasts are very expensive compared to most of the other TV output.

https://mediasales.rte.ie/planning/

threeball

dxhound2005 wrote: »

RTE have not published their advertising charges for September yet, at least that I can find. But this month they were charging €11,000 for a 30 second advertising spot during the football semi finals. 30 seconds during the hurling final will cost you €35,000. From memory the football final was more expensive in previous years, so it will be interesting to see if your speculation will be matched by a reduction in advertising charges.

The ads during big GAA broadcasts are very expensive compared to most of the other TV output.

https://mediasales.rte.ie/planning/

I would imagine that figure would be based on past viewing figures which nearly always favours the football to the tune of 250k plus but I don't see that happening this year. The hurling is set up to be a dinger.

I've never seen people before say they wouldn't be watching the football final but there's alot this year. Normally I'd crawl over hot coals to watch it but this year I wouldn't be bothered if I didn't see it. It holds about the same appeal as the charity shield.

dxhound2005

threeball wrote: »

I would imagine that figure would be based on past viewing figures which nearly always favours the football to the tune of 250k plus but I don't see that happening this year. The hurling is set up to be a dinger.

I've never seen people before say they wouldn't be watching the football final but there's alot this year. Normally I'd crawl over hot coals to watch it but this year I wouldn't be bothered if I didn't see it. It holds about the same appeal as the charity shield.

With Kilkenny winning 11 and losing 3 of the 18 hurling finals this century, that should have resulted in a total turn off for potential audiences. Dublin have won 5 out of the 5 finals they contested in the football, so I think a bit too much is being made of their supposed dominance.

threeball

dxhound2005 wrote: »

With Kilkenny winning 11 and losing 3 of the 18 hurling finals this century, that should have resulted in a total turn off for potential audiences. Dublin have won 5 out of the 5 finals they contested in the football, so I think a bit too much is being made of their supposed dominance.

In general the hurling has always been competitive and exciting though. Kk didn't run away with semis and finals. Many times they came from behind with a blitz when dead and buried. That's not the case with Dublin. Only Mayo have put it up to them and this year no one has. Football in general has been very poor and people are switching off.

Stoner

One things for sure. There will be plenty of Tyrone supporters at this.

Next thing they won't give up when they are 2 points down either.

There were hardly any Galway supporters there yesterday considering they'd a minor game too.
They were not expecting to win, their eyes are on the hurlers.
Galway are not great imo. They've some good footballers but they peak far too early, IMO most would agree that a peaking Mayo would beat them.

The difference between playing Mayo at full tilt and Galway at fill tilt is huge

I think they are building, did well in the league, beat Mayo early again and have the hurling to look forward too.

Secondly the super 8 has been poor imo.

In Dublin's group, first game at half time Donegal decided everything would go down to beating Tyrone at home

Galway were terrible last week. All the games came too quickly, nobody could commit to going to the games the whole momentum of the competition was gone.

No games for ages then 4 in one go a load of rubbish.

One good thing for Dublin was getting to play Tyrone away.
As for the extra game against Roscommon it was a waste.

Ace2007

Stoner wrote: »

As for the extra game against Roscommon it was a waste.

I dunno - a good few Dublin lads got a run out and a chance to show what they can do.

WanderlustIre

Stoner wrote: »

One things for sure. There will be plenty of Tyrone supporters at this.

Next thing they won't give up when they are 2 points down either.

There were hardly any Galway supporters there yesterday considering they'd a minor game too.
They were not expecting to win, their eyes are on the hurlers.
Galway are not great imo. They've some good footballers but they peak far too early, IMO most would agree that a peaking Mayo would beat them.

The difference between playing Mayo at full tilt and Galway at fill tilt is huge

I think they are building, did well in the league, beat Mayo early again and have the hurling to look forward too.

Secondly the super 8 has been poor imo.

In Dublin's group, first game at half time Donegal decided everything would go down to beating Tyrone at home

Galway were terrible last week. All the games came too quickly, nobody could commit to going to the games the whole momentum of the competition was gone.

No games for ages then 4 in one go a load of rubbish.

One good thing for Dublin was getting to play Tyrone away.
As for the extra game against Roscommon it was a waste.

Dublin will not be troubled by the strongest Tyrone team. They simply won’t be strong, quick or athletic enough to compete.

Dublin are a different beast that’s the reality, Tyrone are very wasteful when transitioning play, loose balls and the likes, and the amounts of wides they kick is unreal. Niall S is the only bonus for them in forwards if Philly McMahon starts he will point well of philly as their styles don’t clash well. Philly is a runner and Niall wouldn’t be led on the March by philly. Hopefully mick fitz should be back in for the final.

Stoner

Ace2007 wrote:

I dunno - a good few Dublin lads got a run out and a chance to show what they can do.

I don't know, that's what the O'Byrne cup game if for IMO

WanderlustIre

Stoner wrote: »

I don't know, that's what the O'Byrne cup game if for IMO

Can’t blood players in O Byrne cup then not see them till champo.

Agus

threeball wrote: »

In general the hurling has always been competitive and exciting though. Kk didn't run away with semis and finals. Many times they came from behind with a blitz when dead and buried. That's not the case with Dublin. Only Mayo have put it up to them and this year no one has. Football in general has been very poor and people are switching off.

Ah now, Kilkenny ran away with plenty of games and it certainly wasn't always competitive. Remember the 2008 final? Kilkenny 3-30 Waterford 1-13. Perhaps Dublin will do something liek that this year, but so far their fianls have ended with tight margins - and it's untrue to say that it was just Mayo putting it up to them. Looking at the scorelines, in 2015 they beat Kerry by 3 points. 2016 they beat Kerry by 2 points in the semi-final and the final against Mayo was a one-point win in a replay. 2017 another 1-point win. Hardly "running away" with finals.

rushfan

Stoner wrote:

I don't know, that's what the O'Byrne cup game if for IMO

As it turned out, the Super 8s were perfect for Dublin in the sense that it let Gavin give supposed fringe or squad players a chance to stretch their legs against the Rossies.

threeball

Agus wrote: »

Ah now, Kilkenny ran away with plenty of games and it certainly wasn't always competitive. Remember the 2008 final? Kilkenny 3-30 Waterford 1-13. Perhaps Dublin will do something liek that this year, but so far their fianls have ended with tight margins - and it's untrue to say that it was just Mayo putting it up to them. Looking at the scorelines, in 2015 they beat Kerry by 3 points. 2016 they beat Kerry by 2 points in the semi-final and the final against Mayo was a one-point win in a replay. 2017 another 1-point win. Hardly "running away" with finals.

The Waterford game was the exception. Of course any team that wins that many all Irelands will win a few games by a cricket score but there was never the sense of inevitability surrounding kk winning an all Ireland as there is about Dublin right now. Games were generally exciting.

That Waterford team sh1t their pants on the same day kk hit peak form. It was the perfect storm. Waterford were a brilliant team at the time it just went horribly wrong.

dxhound2005

threeball wrote: »

The Waterford game was the exception. Of course any team that wins that many all Irelands will win a few games by a cricket score but there was never the sense of inevitability surrounding kk winning an all Ireland as there is about Dublin right now. Games were generally exciting.

That Waterford team sh1t their pants on the same day kk hit peak form. It was the perfect storm. Waterford were a brilliant team at the time it just went horribly wrong.

There is a sense of inevitability surrounding the outcome of many sporting events e.g. the Munster Football Championship or the Bundesliga. But that has not diminished interest in the competitions over the years. Dublin never even reached an All Ireland Football Final in the years 1996 to 2010, so this recent success is not guaranteed to continue. And has been pointed out, they are not running away with AI Finals.

corny

WanderlustIre wrote: »

They simply won’t be strong, quick or athletic enough to compete.

I'd disagree with that. I think Dublin are marginally better physically but its not much.

The big problem for Tyrone is their manager. He's obsessed with defending and stopping the opposition. Even today against Monaghan, arguably an inferior team skill wise, he conceded possession and territory for the sake of the defensive plan. Taking the game to the opposition just doesn't occur to him.

Thats what Tyrone need to do. 15 men behind the ball won't stop Dublin putting up a score (as evidenced by last years game). You can get at their backs if you have conviction and try to take the game to them though.

Beechwoodspark

Dublin to win by at least 5.

They have the advantage in every area of the pitch and a better coaching team.

threeball

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is a sense of inevitability surrounding the outcome of many sporting events e.g. the Munster Football Championship or the Bundesliga. But that has not diminished interest in the competitions over the years. Dublin never even reached an All Ireland Football Final in the years 1996 to 2010, so this recent success is not guaranteed to continue. And has been pointed out, they are not running away with AI Finals.

I'm sorry but it's pretty much guaranteed to continue. Unless the Dublin county board get completely lax and start neglecting underage, which given the funding available to them is unlikely to happen, then you may get a odd winner but Dublin will win at least 6 of the next 10 all irelands and i would say more.
Even the dubs will be sick of it at that stage. Kk supporters didn't give fcuk from 2011 onwards and ye won't either.

Stoner

corny wrote:

I'd disagree with that. I think Dublin are marginally better physically but its not much.

I'd tend to agree with you, in some areas Tyrone might even be better conditioned

From 2013 to 2017 Dublin won AI finals not based on fittness, the Dublin squad were bunched in 2013

It's won out against Kerry, but has been matched by Donegal and consistently by Mayo

Since 2010 Dublin have handled Tyrone but showing up some of the limitations in their game. Yes there were some old soliders in the 2010/11 team but Tyrone fixed that a few years ago.


Tyrone ran out of ideas last year not juice.

They'd plenty of juice and subs in Omagh just not enough ideas, however they are changing things up.

Tyrone are doing exactly what many say they need to do. Stay with Dublin and manage the momentum of the game before trying something different

FrancieBrady

20 minutes to go Tyrone will be within 3 - and then we will see what Gavin and Harte are made of.

The_Honeybadger

Tyrone are a really fit and athletic team, Dublin have no advantage there really. Dublin have better footballers and the best management setup in the history of the game, barring a disaster like an early sending off they’ll probably win by at least 3-4 points.

I think the two best teams have reached the final and hopefully we’ll get a cracker after an underwhelming championship. I think the closeness of the games has really hit attendances, playing in half full CP looks dreadful. There needs to be two weeks between the rounds in future.

Best of luck to both teams in the final.

Just An Opinion

FrancieBrady wrote: »

20 minutes to go Tyrone will be within 3 - and then we will see what Gavin and Harte are made of.

Plenty of times teams have been level with Dublin going into stoppage time and Dublin have got the job done, being within 3 with 20 minutes to go is not a unique situation where Gavin has to “show what he’s made of” that’s been done already by Gavin on a number of occasions!

FrancieBrady

Just An Opinion wrote: »

Plenty of times teams have been level with Dublin going into stoppage time and Dublin have got the job done, being within 3 with 20 minutes to go is not a unique situation where Gavin has to “show what he’s made of” that’s been done already by Gavin on a number of occasions!

And?

This is 2018 and if it happens that Tyrone are thereabouts the 'past' don't matter a damn. We beat them already this year and it didn't matter today.

robbiezero

Dublin to win by 6 or more I think. just superior in most areas of the pitch vs a fairly average Tyrone team.
I give Tyrone no chance. if there is to be a somewhat surprising result I think it's more likely to be that dubs win by 12+ instead of the expected 6 ish.
hard game for the neutral to pick a team to favour.

Just An Opinion

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And?

This is 2018 and if it happens that Tyrone are thereabouts the 'past' don't matter a damn. We beat them already this year and it didn't matter today.

And? My point is Gavin has shown what he’s made of plenty of times, it’s not a yet to be seen situation what he’s made of, we already know regardless of what the outcome is in 3 weeks.

robbiezero

FrancieBrady wrote: »

20 minutes to go Tyrone will be within 3 - and then we will see what Gavin and Harte are made of.

would fancy Dubs by 8 or more from that position.

FrancieBrady

Just An Opinion wrote: »

And? My point is Gavin has shown what he’s made of plenty of times, it’s not a yet to be seen situation what he’s made of, we already know regardless of what the outcome is in 3 weeks.

We'll see what he is made of against Tyrone within 3 points of his team in 2018.

JESUS do we need to always state we are talking about the here and now?

Gavin is a good if not great manager. Relax in yer kaks there.

Just An Opinion

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We'll see what he is made of against Tyrone within 3 points of his team in 2018.

JESUS do we need to always state we are talking about the here and now?

Gavin is a good if not great manager. Relax in yer kaks there.

I’m perfectly relaxed Francie you’re the one seeming a tad enhanced on the bpm front there me aul flower. I made a point on Gavin already proving what he’s made of, both past and the here and now so ye know.....relax in yer kaks!!!

FrancieBrady

Just An Opinion wrote: »

I’m perfectly relaxed Francie you’re the one seeming a tad enhanced on the bpm front there me aul flower. I made a point on Gavin already proving what he’s made of, both past and the here and now so ye know.....relax in yer kaks!!!

He's proved what he's made of in a final that hasn't happened yet?

Wow, you have some genius there! We're all doomed. :rolleyes:

The_Honeybadger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We'll see what he is made of against Tyrone within 3 points of his team in 2018.

JESUS do we need to always state we are talking about the here and now?

Gavin is a good if not great manager. Relax in yer kaks there.

Gavin is a good if not a great manager!!

He has lost one championship game in six years. He is the best there has ever been, although he undoubtedly has had more help than most that have come before him. It will probably take time for his achievements to be truly recognised but I don’t think any other manager in the game would have achieved what he has in the past six years. It pains me to say that as a son of the kingdom.

PTH2009

Gavin reminds me more of a rugby coach (Prob the accent) then a GAA coach but he is a pretty good one and has not lost a championship game since he took over. How would he do with another team is the question ???

Id love to see a fly on the wal docl about this Dublin team and see what he is like in the dressing room. Is he as quite and reserved as on the line or is he a raging lunatic behind closed doors ???. The man is so chilled on the line it's amazing even when Mayo were leading in the final last year

Stoner

FrancieBrady wrote:

We beat them already this year and it didn't matter today.

That was Monaghan though Francie.

This Monahan team have a history of blowing up and largly losing big games, this Dublin team have fallen short against Mayo and Donegal, and have had meltdowns since but largly recover in time and come out the right side, only a novice would suggest that the past means nothing. You have to take past form into consideration particularly when it comes to mental resolve.

Mistakes will be made, it's about when they happen and how well players recover.

Believe me Tyrone know how to close out a game against Monaghan far better than they do against Dublin, indeed they can go to the well when in that situation, but it's all new to them vs Dublin. The Tyrone players know it and the Monaghan players know it too.

That said like today it could go either way, but Tyrone will need to do more than simply tweak the Omagh performance, they'll need another trick, timed correctly.

Just An Opinion

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He's proved what he's made of in a final that hasn't happened yet?

Wow, you have some genius there! We're all doomed. :rolleyes:

Dear god I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re deliberately missing my point. Have a sleep Francie it helps regenerate the mind (in most cases anyway)

Gael85

PTH2009 wrote: »

Gavin reminds me more of a rugby coach (Prob the accent) then a GAA coach but he is a pretty good one and has not lost a championship game since he took over. How would he do with another team is the question ???

Id love to see a fly on the wal docl about this Dublin team and see what he is like in the dressing room. Is he as quite and reserved as on the line or is he a raging lunatic behind closed doors ???. The man is so chilled on the line it's amazing even when Mayo were leading in the final last year

We lost to Donegal in 2014. I'm sure he is ruthless behind the scenes as made a lot of big calls on and off the pitch over last few years. His cool demeanor on the sideline comes from his army background. He won 2 u21 All Ireland. The 2010 winning u21 team had players who knocked by Laois x 3 and Offaly at minor level.

Stoner

PTH2009 wrote:

Gavin reminds me more of a rugby coach (Prob the accent) then a GAA coach but he is a pretty good one and has not lost a championship game since he took over. How would he do with another team is the question ???

Well Donegal beat them in 2014

He won a Junior AI before that.

I think the key for him was working with guys at minor and U21 level rather than just being parachuted in, he came in under the radar and had a recent winning team to add too.
Gilroy simply didn't have a Fenton or Howard around to help with Dublin's weakest area.

I think Fitzmaurace had the opposite experience. An older team that he was overly familiar with. But O'Connor has gone back to underage and is building things up again.

Mayo also want instant success, but might go with their 2016 u21 winning manager next time .

There's nothing overnight about Gavin anyway, no famous Mick O'Dwyer impact, he might leave a team better than he found it though, but I would not expect instant results

He'd remove the messers quickly anyway.

FrancieBrady

Just An Opinion wrote: »

Dear god I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re deliberately missing my point. Have a sleep Francie it helps regenerate the mind (in most cases anyway)

Sorry. I didn't realise we had to list a manager's previous achievements when we wanted to talk about a future game. :rolleyes:

ThunbergsAreGo

threeball wrote: »

In general the hurling has always been competitive and exciting though. Kk didn't run away with semis and finals. Many times they came from behind with a blitz when dead and buried. That's not the case with Dublin. Only Mayo have put it up to them and this year no one has. Football in general has been very poor and people are switching off.

KK ran away with loads of those finals and semi finals

Dublin are the ones who havent ran away with a final

Just An Opinion

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sorry. I didn't realise we had to list a manager's previous achievements when we wanted to talk about a future game. :rolleyes:

Not realising seems to be your primary feature Francie, I’ll leave you to it!

Billy Mays

4 senior all Irelands, 2 under 21 all Irelands, 5 national league titles = good but not great manager

Ok

ProudDUB

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sorry. I didn't realise we had to list a manager's previous achievements when we wanted to talk about a future game. :rolleyes:

What mind altering drugs are you on that lets you see his future achievements, if that's the only permissible criteria to you? :eek:

Billy Mays

Any response from the Sunday Game yet?

FrancieBrady

Just An Opinion wrote: »

Not realising seems to be your primary feature Francie, I’ll leave you to it!

You are the one who had a strop because I didn't say Gavin was a great of the game. I clarified that for you later, but still the derogatory recriminations. :rolleyes:

I was speculating on a head to head as managers in a future game not comparing their past records as managers (I also didn't feel the need to mention Harte has never coached a losing team in an AI final, but there was no Tyrone person getting upset about that omission in my post)

If Gavin or even Harte has nothing else to prove or achieve then we might as well just finish off the championship now and possibly football altogether.

Hypothetically, if Harte does manage to out tactic Gavin, would you be man/woman enough to change your opinion of Gavin?
Do you think it would be mentioned at all in a review of his career if he failed to deliver a 4 in a row?

Gael85

Billy Mays wrote: »

4 senior all Irelands, 2 under 21 all Irelands, 5 national league titles = good but not great manager

Ok

Great managers win the O'Byrne Cup

FrancieBrady

ProudDUB wrote: »

What mind altering drugs are you on that lets you see his future achievements, if that's the only permissible criteria to you? :eek:

You are aware that this is a 'speculation' thread until the final whistle goes on AI Final day? Harte has never coached a losing team in an AI final, if he manages to out smart Gavin then I make no apologies for saying that that affects any head to head review/comparison of the two managers abilities their other failures/achievements aside.

Is it going to be like this until the final? Where anyone who speculates that Tyrone might have the tactics to win or criticises Dublin is opening themselves to derogatory comment without any discussion of what is actually being said?

If it is, I will leave now and let you guys build your echo chamber.

C__MC

Dublin haven’t played well in a final since 2015

But bar colm Cavanagh this is a new experience for Tyrone

Will the four in a row play on Dublin minds?

Hmmmmm, will Tyrone have a purple patch and hit Dublin for a few scores without reply- rarely seems to happen nowadays apart from mayo against Dublin

Dublin are just to good.

Please folks let’s not destroy this thread by spouting stuff like Dublin to hammer Tyrone and Gaelic football is dead etc

It is a final - takes on a life of its own but Dublin should win 5-6 points