Family of seven sleep in Garda station Mod note post one

stuff.hunter

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’ve heard worse, but I do wonder why you’re only making that point now when throughout this thread we’ve had plenty of posters complaining as though they have no option but to commute to their place of employment, how hard they work, etc and by the way they’re talking it sounds as though they’re going to have plenty of health problems in their near futures before they collect their public pension while they’re not pushing up daisies, and costing “the taxpayer” a fortune over their lifetimes for the consequences of their bad decisions. In effect, they are a net drain on society than someone who is claiming benefits who is likely to pop their clogs a lot quicker and leaves a much smaller carbon footprint on the planet.

If you’re going to measure people’s worth based on their “contribution to society”, then you have to consider all factors, rather than just considering the factors that suit you, and ignoring the factors that don’t suit your argument.

in case of Ms Cash theres not even a half of one factor ...

Ronin247

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’ve heard worse, but I do wonder why you’re only making that point now when throughout this thread we’ve had plenty of posters complaining as though they have no option but to commute to their place of employment, how hard they work, etc and by the way they’re talking it sounds as though they’re going to have plenty of health problems in their near futures before they collect their public pension while they’re not pushing up daisies, and costing “the taxpayer” a fortune over their lifetimes for the consequences of their bad decisions. In effect, they are a net drain on society than someone who is claiming benefits who is likely to pop their clogs a lot quicker and leaves a much smaller carbon footprint on the planet.

If you’re going to measure people’s worth based on their “contribution to society”, then you have to consider all factors, rather than just considering the factors that suit you, and ignoring the factors that don’t suit your argument.

If a working person has health problems they usually have to rely on the private health insurance they have paid for, whilst the non contribution sponges have medical cards to go to the hospital that the workers also have paid for.

If you are not earning money through employment or investment and are surviving solely on benefits then you are living for free. Your partial rent payments come out of the free money the state give you every week.

In my opinion if you do nothing but live on handouts from the state you are not contributing to society.

BBFAN

Ronin247 wrote: »

If a working person has health problems they usually have to rely on the private health insurance they have paid for, whilst the non contribution sponges have medical cards to go to the hospital that the workers also have paid for.

If you are not earning money through employment or investment and are surviving solely on benefits then you are living for free. Your partial rent payments come out of the free money the state give you every week.

In my opinion if you do nothing but live on handouts from the state you are not contributing to society.

So you genuinely believe OAP's, carers and mothers and fathers contribute nothing to society.

Very sad for you if you do.

One eyed Jack

stuff.hunter wrote: »

in case of Ms Cash theres not even a half of one factor ...

Of course there is. I dunno ‘bout you but I love children (wouldn’t eat a whole one though, watching my figure), and Ms. Cash has eight, so she has contributed to society, eight times more in fact than someone who has only one child, and those who have no children haven’t contributed anything to society.

Gatling

Contribution Vs drain

One eyed Jack

Ronin247 wrote: »

If a working person has health problems they usually have to rely on the private health insurance they have paid for, whilst the non contribution sponges have medical cards to go to the hospital that the workers also have paid for.

The criteria for the medical card aren’t based upon employment status, but rather on income levels, so it’s entirely possible for someone who is working to also qualify for a medical card or any number of other assistance payments from the State, far more than will ever be covered by their individual tax contributions over their lifetimes. It’s also worth pointing out that private healthcare is a choice that people make for themselves, so that’s not one-up they have on anyone who cannot afford private healthcare, it’s entirely their own choice and therefore entirely their own responsibility if they don’t want to be dependent upon public healthcare.

If you are not earning money through employment or investment and are surviving solely on benefits then you are living for free. Your partial rent payments come out of the free money the state give you every week.

We already had the earlier silliness with the whole claims that people who weren’t paying rent were living for free. They aren’t, and your opinion doesn’t change the facts.

In my opinion if you do nothing but live on handouts from the state you are not contributing to society.

I’m glad you’re giving your opinion for free, because it’s worthless.

Ronin247

BBFAN wrote: »

So you genuinely believe OAP's, carers and mothers and fathers contribute nothing to society.

Very sad for you if you do.

Anyone who works is entitled to a pension. A mother and father who have never worked are not contributing to society

Carers are doing a job and getting paid for it, are you suggesting it isn't a real job??

SEPT 23 1989

Another family with four children with nowhere to go hitting the headlines now

The McDonaghs

NasserShammaz

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Another family with four children with nowhere to go hitting the headlines now

The McDonaghs

There's something about that name ehh sounds a bit

Ronin247

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The criteria for the medical card aren’t based upon employment status, but rather on income levels, so it’s entirely possible for someone who is working to also qualify for a medical card or any number of other assistance payments from the State, far more than will ever be covered by their individual tax contributions over their lifetimes. It’s also worth pointing out that private healthcare is a choice that people make for themselves, so that’s not one-up they have on anyone who cannot afford private healthcare, it’s entirely their own choice and therefore entirely their own responsibility if they don’t want to be dependent upon public healthcare.





We already had the earlier silliness with the whole claims that people who weren’t paying rent were living for free. They aren’t, and your opinion doesn’t change the facts.





I’m glad you’re giving your opinion for free, because it’s worthless.

If someone else is providing all your money and you are doing nothing to earn it then you are living for free. Please tell me what someone who has never worked is contributing to society??
No doubt you will duck that question


My opinion is the same as your contribution to society so

BBFAN

Ronin247 wrote: »

Anyone who works is entitled to a pension. A mother and father who have never worked are not contributing to society

Carers are doing a job and getting paid for it, are you suggesting it isn't a real job??

A mother who stays at home to raise her children does a very valuable job and certainly contributes to society.

And thankfully you don't get to decide who is entitled to a pension.

Do we suggest that kill off any pensioner who hasn't contributed enough tax to pay for their pension.

NasserShammaz

zxr125 wrote: »

this thread should be shut down

Why pray tell its great craic

Annasopra

AlekSmart wrote: »

By "raising taxes",are we to assume you mean Increasing existing taxes,or do you mean devising New sources of taxation ?

The funding sources you reference,are all indeed legitimate,but inferring that they represent a source of "Free" money is just a tad disingenuous.

Drawing down funding from any,or all,of these sources will require repayment or replenishment at some point,and that funding has to come from someplace too...?

Yes. Existing taxes would not have to be replaced. Not all the above that I mentioned would have to be replenished. Also because the country is then investing in the economy employing builders etc this would generate more economic activity and generate more income tax to pay some of the associated costs.

punisher5112

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The criteria for the medical card aren’t based upon employment status, but rather on income levels, so it’s entirely possible for someone who is working to also qualify for a medical card or any number of other assistance payments from the State, far more than will ever be covered by their individual tax contributions over their lifetimes. It’s also worth pointing out that private healthcare is a choice that people make for themselves, so that’s not one-up they have on anyone who cannot afford private healthcare, it’s entirely their own choice and therefore entirely their own responsibility if they don’t want to be dependent upon public healthcare.





We already had the earlier silliness with the whole claims that people who weren’t paying rent were living for free. They aren’t, and your opinion doesn’t change the facts.





I’m glad you’re giving your opinion for free, because it’s worthless.

So hold on... If someone isn't paying anything.... What is it then a burden on them or something....

Of course one getting the dole and other payments etc and then not even contributing towards rent is of course getting it for free.

They get a payment each week and haven't done a thing apart from fill out forms and sign it to show they don't work.

I really don't get your argument.

Ronin247

BBFAN wrote: »

A mother who stays at home to raise her children does a very valuable job and certainly contributes to society.

If that is her total contribution to society, popping out a few fatherless brats to scrounge up more benefits through their lifetimes then it is a contribution we could do without.

BBFAN wrote: »

And thankfully you don't get to decide who is entitled to a pension.

Do we suggest that kill off any pensioner who hasn't contributed enough tax to pay for their pension.

I never mentioned killing off pensioners, you did whilst trying to change the goalposts.

I put the same question to you. If someone has never worked, what have they contributed to society.

freshpopcorn

BBFAN wrote: »

So you genuinely believe OAP's, carers and mothers and fathers contribute nothing to society.

Very sad for you if you do.

Most people I know have no issue with OAP's getting a pension, careers looking after relatives,
They also know some people might need a bit of support from time to time in there lives due to various issues.
Even with single mothers. People know sometimes somebody might get themselves in a situation and have a child.
However it angers people when people abuse situations examples include
Having multiple kids without being able to support them.
People claiming disability allowances for no reason.
Working and claiming social welfare.
Basically just generally abusing the system because it effects everybody especially does who need the support.

Just note my I'd share the same opinion.

BBFAN

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Most people I know have no issue with OAP's getting a pension, careers looking after relatives,
They also know some people might need a bit of support from time to time in there lives due to various issues.
Even with single mothers. People know sometimes somebody might get themselves in a situation and have a child.
However it angers people when people abuse situations examples include
Having multiple kids without being able to support them.
People claiming disability allowances for no reason.
Working and claiming social welfare.
Basically just generally abusing the system because it effects everybody especially does who need the support.

I don't really care about all the people you know in your little backward village fresh, if you have an opinion yourself feel free to have the courage to express it.

So easy to write what all the people you know think. :rolleyes:

One eyed Jack

Ronin247 wrote: »

If someone else is providing all your money and you are doing nothing to earn it then you are living for free. Please tell me what someone who has never worked is contributing to society??

No doubt you will duck that question

My opinion is the same as your contribution to society so

They’re contributing to society by their very existence. Now whether they make an overall positive contribution to society, or they are a drain on society, really does come down to a matter of opinion, because everyone is going to have their own individual ideas for the kind of society they would want to live in.

If whether or not someone is employed is one of the factors you personally consider an important contribution to society, cool beans, that’s all I was looking for when I asked the question earlier that went unanswered. For me personally, whether or not someone is or isn’t employed nor how many children they do or don’t have never been the standard by which I would judge anyone’s contribution to society.

Whether or not someone is an arsehole is what for me determines their contribution to society. It wouldn’t matter if they were an arsehole like myself who is employed and well, to be honest I really don’t work hard at all, I work smarter, and I certainly have more taken in income tax from my salary than when I was flipping burgers to pay my rent 25 years ago while still enjoying education in secondary school which I don’t think my income tax then was actually coming within an asses roar of covering.

I still think my wife who gave up employment in her early 20’s contrubuted far more to society than I did by raising our son practically on her own, and that’s why now in our 40’s I’m more than happy to support her when she has decided to further her education rather than leaving her dependent upon any form of assistance from the State which IMO is not conducive to education, it’s incredibly stressful on anyone trying to balance furthering their education with everything else they have going on in their lives like having to listen to idiots telling them they are contributing nothing to society.

Does that sufficiently answer your question?

freshpopcorn

BBFAN wrote: »

I don't really care about all the people you know in your little backward village fresh, if you have an opinion yourself feel free to have the courage to express it.

So easy to write what all the people you know think. :rolleyes:

Sorry my opinion would be the same as this.
I have a habit of taking that way. I talk to people about a lot of things and this is the one I find most common.
I don't live in a village by the way.

BBFAN

Ronin247 wrote: »

If that is her total contribution to society, popping out a few fatherless brats to scrounge up more benefits through their lifetimes then it is a contribution we could do without.




I never mentioned killing off pensioners, you did whilst trying to change the goalposts.

I put the same question to you. If someone has never worked, what have they contributed to society.

A mother raises children and looks after a home which is a very valuable contribution to society, of course she has contributed. Not so long ago no mothers would be working outside the home. Maybe even your own mother? Did all those women contribute nothing to society?

You were the one who said someone who never works deserves nothing. There are pensioners who have never worked believe or not. All the "scroungers" don't die at 64 believe it or not.

BBFAN

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Sorry my opinion would be the same as this.
I have a habit of taking that way.
I don't live in a village by the way.

Fine, just express your own opinion then, we're not interested in what all your friends and neighbours think.

You're forever on about rural Ireland and now you're trying to tell me you don't live there??

freshpopcorn

BBFAN wrote: »

Fine, just express your own opinion then, we're not interested in what all your friends and neighbours think.

You're forever on about rural Ireland and now you're trying to tell me you don't live there??

I live a few miles outside a town in a rural area. So I'd encounter a mix of people.
You said I live in a village.
I'll talk about things/issues as how I see fit.

BBFAN

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I live a few miles outside a town in a rural area. So I'd encounter a mix of people.
You said I live in a village.
I'll talk about things/issues as how I see fit.

I know loads of people who say anywhere outside Dublin or Cork city is a backward village and certainly has a village mentality.

That's just the people I know though.

See how this works?

Gatling

BBFAN wrote: »

A mother who stays at home to raise her children does a very valuable job

As do the majority who fund the lifestyle choices

Ronin247

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They’re contributing to society by their very existence. Now whether they make an overall positive contribution to society, or they are a drain on society, really does come down to a matter of opinion, because everyone is going to have their own individual ideas for the kind of society they would want to live in.

If whether or not someone is employed is one of the factors you personally consider an important contribution to society, cool beans, that’s all I was looking for when I asked the question earlier that went unanswered. For me personally, whether or not someone is or isn’t employed nor how many children they do or don’t have never been the standard by which I would judge anyone’s contribution to society.

Whether or not someone is an arsehole is what for me determines their contribution to society. It wouldn’t matter if they were an arsehole like myself who is employed and well, to be honest I really don’t work hard at all, I work smarter, and I certainly have more taken in income tax from my salary than when I was flipping burgers to pay my rent 25 years ago while still enjoying education in secondary school which I don’t think my income tax then was actually coming within an asses roar of covering.

I still think my wife who gave up employment in her early 20’s contrubuted far more to society than I did by raising our son practically on her own, and that’s why now in our 40’s I’m more than happy to support her when she has decided to further her education rather than leaving her dependent upon any form of assistance from the State which IMO is not conducive to education, it’s incredibly stressful on anyone trying to balance furthering their education with everything else they have going on in their lives like having to listen to idiots telling them they are contributing nothing to society.

Does that sufficiently answer your question?

They're contributing to society by their very existence !! What a dose of horse5hit. People like the one that caused this thread contribute absolutely nothing to society.

BBFAN

Gatling wrote: »

As do the majority who fund the lifestyle choices

So you agree mothers do a valuable job, that's good. We're in agreement so.

Anthracite

BBFAN wrote: »

A mother raises children and looks after a home which is a very valuable contribution to society, of course she has contributed.

How?

What if she raises a bunch of people who are career criminals and non-contributors? What is 'looking after a house'? Who do you think will pay for the maintenance of said house?

freshpopcorn

BBFAN wrote: »

I know loads of people who say anywhere outside Dublin or Cork city is a backward village and certainly has a village mentality.

That's just the people I know though.

See how this works?

Well it tells me what most people in your social circle has that opinion.

Gatling

BBFAN wrote: »

So you agree mothers do a valuable job, that's good. We're in agreement so.

No were not sorry .

Most will happily sit at home using the excuse i can't ever get a job it might effect my place on the housing list , so I'll have another child and another and another ,while I'm waiting for 3bed semi with front and back gardens ,and when the youngest child reaches college age they have another excuse i can't get a job because they won't get grants .

BBFAN

Anthracite wrote: »

How?

What if she raises a bunch of people who are career criminals and non-contributors? What is 'looking after a house'? Who do you think will pay for the maintenance of said house?

If you don't understand the contribution stay at home mums make I'm sorry I can't help you.