Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

TheValeyard

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Johnathan Frakes has said much the same about directing Discovery. He's very much in favor of the more dynamic approach, though I seem to recall his episodes didn't go quite as far with the loopy camera shots.

I actually liked his approach to the Terran Empire. Id even watch a show like that

AtomicHorror

Burty330 wrote: »

Will it present cross spices relationships like Voyager did? ST was always progressive and left leaning so i don't think it will.

If the Discovery creators had characters like Gary Hobbson from Early Edition they might find a common ground between their show and the audience.
There's many parallels to be drawn from the Borg to the leftist Star Bucks warriors of our time. The Borgs were the baddies member...

The Federation is a liberal, leftist, post-scarcity/socialist civilization, where personal wealth is an alien concept, personal growth is the main driver and the collective good is a civic responsibility, but never at the expense of personal autonomy and choice. The Borg were an analogy for totalitarian-style communism and/or nationalism- for authoritarianism. Nothing "leftist" about them.

Star Trek's politics have not really shifted in 50+ years, except notably for it's treatment of LGBT+ people. A lot of kids who grew up with Trek didn't pay much attention to that subtext, but now that they're adults and they have better critical thinking and they know where to look for subtext, they think Star Trek has suddenly become political.

Stark

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The Federation is a liberal, leftist, post-scarcity/socialist civilization, where personal wealth is an alien concept, personal growth is the main driver and the collective good is a civic responsibility, but never at the expense of personal autonomy and choice.

Not to mention multi-culturalism taken to its extreme. Pretty much the EU on a galactic scale*. Which is contrasted with the two main antagonists in TOS: The Klingons who represent colonialism in TOS (I don't think this side of them is shown in TNG onwards) and the Romulans who represent xenophobia in all the series.

* If I really think back to what originally made me pro-EU, it was probably Star Trek. Every expansion takes us closer to the Federation

pixelburp

Whinging that Trek is too political nowadays is like complaining that there are too many musical numbers in the Sound of Music.

Burty330

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The Federation is a liberal, leftist, post-scarcity/socialist civilization

Erm , yeah ..no..Thats a misinformed perceptive.

The themes and world of Trek presented a progressive Utopian vision. There is no left or right side of the political spectrum. Liberalism and leftism are not the same.

Left wing politics back then are a far cry from what they are today. Identity politics and propping up women at the expense of men is antithetical to the vision of Star Trek.
Note i said -at the expense of men. That needs to pointed out.

Voyager was ahead of the curve with its diverse cast and depiction of strong female characters.
As A pan sausage person of sauce i felt it important that cross spices relationships were portrayed as normal. It sent a message of tolerance to people who are different.

It was similarly nice to see Riker open his pants to non-humans too , as seen in Outcast and in another episode where he is being held prisoner - the name of which escapes me.

Those were positive messages that meant something.

Twitter activists and their mickey mouse tumblr politics of 2019 are totally empty and meaningless.

Leftism is a today is mostly the intolerant and hateful side of the political compass.

It didn't really surprise me that this thread has more fans of Discracery than Voyager.
Most poster here don't understand real Trek.

I'll tell ya something else.. 21 Jump Street was more progressive than Discracery.

Lets not forget than Netflix frogmarched it off its platform after only 2 seasons!!!

TheIrishGrover

TheValeyard wrote: »

I actually liked his approach to the Terran Empire. Id even watch a show like that

I always found the Mirror Universe to be very one-note and campier than a tent convention at Glastonbury. I was actually disappointed when Lorca was from TMU in Discovery.

Sad Professor

Folks, please try and keep discussion focused on the new Picard show please. There's other threads for discussing Discovery, etc and people are welcome to start new threads on other topics. Thanks.

Evade

Just signing up for Prime and it's only €2.99 a month for the first six months if anyone's on the fence about it.

Stark

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I always found the Mirror Universe to be very one-note and campier than a tent convention at Glastonbury. I was actually disappointed when Lorca was from TMU in Discovery.

In small doses, it can be a *lot" of fun imo. Basically an excuse for the actors to camp it up in their usual roles. If you were to actually try and make sense of it, it makes no sense whatsoever. Kind of sorry Voyager/TNG didn't have a mirror universe episode although "Living Witness" was more or less on the same lines.

DS9 maybe took it a little too seriously and took the fun out of it. Mirror Kira was awesome though.

H3llR4iser

Stark wrote: »

In small doses, it can be a *lot" of fun imo. Basically an excuse for the actors to camp it up in their usual roles. If you were to actually try and make sense of it, it makes no sense whatsoever. Kind of sorry Voyager/TNG didn't have a mirror universe episode although "Living Witness" was more or less on the same lines.

DS9 maybe took it a little too seriously and took the fun out of it. Mirror Kira was awesome though.

I do think it'd make a lot of sense as a series, afterall I've always seen "Mirror Universe Star Trek" as what is most likely to happen if mankind actually ever finds a way to achieve interstellar travel. The same way I always yearned for Trek series seen from the eyes of the "baddies", specifically the Romulans or Cardassians (Klingons were caricatures as antagonists and the Borg are as interesting as reading some COBOL ).

Anyway, saw the last trailer - it's indeed a collection of "Picard wisdom" moments. Let's hope the whole thing ain't too preachy.

ilovesmybrick

https://twitter.com/TrekGeeks/status/1219801325539680257?s=20

I think that we've probably hit a fair chunk of these before it has come out!

AMKC

Well I don't think Data looks to old he does however look like he put on a bit of weight on the face and I seen Brent Spinner has to which is understandable as he is probably been enjoyng eating out more now the last couple of decades which he no doubt could not do when he was Data a he had to be superfit and slim.

I am hoping it has good writing and resects Star Trek that has gone before it. I am hoping it is better than Discovery but some of the Discovery episodes are not to bad. I even think Micheal Burnham was not to bad in the first maybe 6 or so episodes but then the started to make it the Micheal Burnham show and it has gone down from there.

I am hoping there is not much if any lens flares and that its not overdone with action scenes and lastly from that list for now I hope the writers of it have watched TNG, some DS9 and a little of Voyager specificly only the episodes they needed to watch.

H3llR4iser

AMKC wrote: »

Well I don't think Data looks to old he does however look like he put on a bit of weight on the face and I seen Brent Spinner has to which is understandable as he is probably been enjoyng eating out more now the last couple of decades which he no doubt could not do when he was Data a he had to be superfit and slim.

I am hoping it has good writing and resects Star Trek that has gone before it. I am hoping it is better than Discovery but some of the Discovery episodes are not to bad. I even think Micheal Burnham was not to bad in the first maybe 6 or so episodes but then the started to make it the Micheal Burnham show and it has gone down from there.

I am hoping there is not much if any lens flares and that its not overdone with action scenes and lastly from that list for now I hope the writers of it have watched TNG, some DS9 and a little of Voyager specificly only the episodes they needed to watch.

Yeah the arguments about Data are silly, for multiple reasons - obviously he's played by an actor who obviously is aging. That's were a certain part of the Star Trek fandom has a bit of a "disconnected with reality" issue.

And if we really, really want to be finding "in universe" reasons - it would make sense for Data, who's been struggling to be human his whole life, would simply modify himself in order to fit in with the people around him - he was shown in TNG to do so. A holographic character based off of his "parameters" (if it IS an hologram we'll see...I suspect he's in Jean-Luc's head) would present the same.

Stark

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And if we really, really want to be finding "in universe" reasons - it would make sense for Data, who's been struggling to be human his whole life, would simply modify himself in order to fit in with the people around him - he was shown in TNG to do so. A holographic character based off of his "parameters" (if it IS an hologram we'll see...I suspect he's in Jean-Luc's head) would present the same.

From the clip shown on Graham Norton, the Data poker game is a dream sequence

H3llR4iser

Yeah hadn't seen that trailer, but it was pretty obvious it was the case, to be honest.

Crazy plot twist prediction - Geordi and Barclay to figure out a way to "reassemble" Data further down the series! (Probably not going to happen, but it'd be quite a thing - as long as they don't pull an "Evil Optimus Prime" moment!)

TheValeyard

Stark wrote: »

From the clip shown on Graham Norton, the Data poker game is a dream sequence

Definitely


But this clip, particularly what he says at the very end is very interesting

TheValeyard

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah hadn't seen that trailer, but it was pretty obvious it was the case, to be honest.

Crazy plot twist prediction - Geordi and Barclay to figure out a way to "reassemble" Data further down the series! (Probably not going to happen, but it'd be quite a thing - as long as they don't pull an "Evil Optimus Prime" moment!)

I'd say Q in season 2 will pull Data out of time at the exact moment the Scimitar explodes. (to keep the time line intact)

pixelburp

Looks like a TV interview I guess? Was something that was milling around the edges of previous promotions, and had even read from Stewart that this was where the show might be heading.

Makes one wonder what the Fed did that ruptured Picard's faith; a betrayal of their principles presumably. The "synths", Borg, Data all seem to be heavily involved in the larger plot, so perhaps it was less the grand gesture & more a subtle decision. The Fed deciding to renege on their view of life & sapience, killing synths indiscriminately

in retaliation to the attack on Mars that happened

seamus

TheValeyard wrote: »

Definitely
But this clip, particularly what he says at the very end is very interesting

Hadn't seen that clip before. The context of the conversation supports very much a lot of the speculation that's been flying around since this came out;

After Data's death, Starfleet saw fit to push ahead with Maddox's work and worked on building some kind of synthetic workforce/army based on Soong-type androids and Borg. Which prompted Picard to quit in protest

H3llR4iser

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah the arguments about Data are silly, for multiple reasons - obviously he's played by an actor who obviously is aging. That's were a certain part of the Star Trek fandom has a bit of a "disconnected with reality" issue.

And if we really, really want to be finding "in universe" reasons - it would make sense for Data, who's been struggling to be human his whole life, would simply modify himself in order to fit in with the people around him - he was shown in TNG to do so. A holographic character based off of his "parameters" (if it IS an hologram we'll see...I suspect he's in Jean-Luc's head) would present the same.

Absolutely, they could explain his appearance in one line. "You look different Data?".

Data: "While endeavoring to become more human I wanted to experiment and experience the aging process so modified my features to experience that change."

Easy.

ilovesmybrick

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TrekGeeks/status/1219801325539680257?s=20

I think that we've probably hit a fair chunk of these before it has come out!

"Too much focus on Picard" :D

The bloody show is called ST: Picard.

Minime2.5

Will all episodes be released simultaneously

TheValeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Too much focus on Picard" :D

The bloody show is called ST: Picard.

Probably a reaction to a valid complaint about Burnham though with Discovery

charlietheminxx

Minime2.5 wrote: »

Will all episodes be released simultaneously

No, it's one per week.

Stark

pixelburb wrote:

Makes one wonder what the Fed did that ruptured Picard's faith; a betrayal of their principles presumably. The "synths", Borg, Data all seem to be heavily involved in the larger plot, so perhaps it was less the grand gesture & more a subtle decision. The Fed deciding to renege on their view of life & sapience, killing synths indiscriminately Spoiler: in retaliation to the attack on Mars that happened

seamus wrote: »

Hadn't seen that clip before. The context of the conversation supports very much a lot of the speculation that's been flying around since this came out;

After Data's death, Starfleet saw fit to push ahead with Maddox's work and worked on building some kind of synthetic workforce/army based on Soong-type androids and Borg. Which prompted Picard to quit in protest

There was an interesting ending to one of the Season 7 Voyager episodes (Author, Author) where the first version Alpha Quadrant EMHs had all been effectively enslaved and put to work on mining colonies. At the end, a copy of a provocative novel written by Voyager's EMH gets distributed and it's heavily implied that it's about to spark a rebellion. We don't get to see the aftermath of that on Voyager but maybe that also feeds into the Picard storyline.

In that same episode, the Doctor was judged in an arbitration meeting *not* to be a person. So that would also have consequences. As far as I remember, Data's personhood was left somewhat ambiguous in "A Measure of a Man", I think they just agreed to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Evade

Stark wrote: »

heavily implied that it's about to spark a rebellion

That's a pretty extreme interpretation. I saw it more like a realisation they could be more.

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely, they could explain his appearance in one line. "You look different Data?".

Data: "While endeavoring to become more human I wanted to experiment and experience the aging process so modified my features to experience that change."

Easy.

I think a more late Data reply would be "As do you, sir."

Inviere

TheValeyard wrote: »

Probably a reaction to a valid complaint about Burnham though with Discovery

A certainly valid complaint many would agree. The "bad writing" one on the bingo board also shouldn't be there, there are definite arguments to be made that the writing on Discovery has been hit & miss (and that's me being very kind), it's not a complaint that should be laughed off.

That said, the minute Stewart signed the line on this I had a confidence in it that I haven't had in any new form of Star Trek in a long long time. I'll be genuinely shocked if this show isn't of a high standard.

Stark

TheValeyard wrote: »

I'd say Q in season 2 will pull Data out of time at the exact moment the Scimitar explodes. (to keep the time line intact)

Will he get to go on crazy adventures with Clara Oswald in her flying diner TARDIS before returning to the Prime timeline? (They've done Star Trek/DW crossovers before (https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Assimilation%C2%B2_(comic_story))

Stark

TheValeyard wrote: »

Definitely


But this clip, particularly what he says at the very end is very interesting

Ooh, bit of a "Blade Runner" vibe going on there.