Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

SMC92Ian

I've watched countless docs about the originals, the first one he had F all money, the studio had zero faith in what he was making and wouldn't pay up for some parts. Lucas said most of the money made off Star Wars was the toys.

johnny_ultimate

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I've watched countless docs about the originals

...but not the original films themselves?

I mean, I don’t think the original trilogy is some sacred cow (ROTJ is a junk film and the series had hugely negative impacts on Hollywood filmmaking in general). But I would recommend them to someone so interested in the story behind them

Tony EH

beauf wrote: »

What story are you referring to?

That link doesn't say he didn't have money problems, its just saying how it turned out to be a smart decision financially in the long run.

But that is why there are so many toys and other stuff. Its a real money spinner.

It was largely luck though. Lucas thought 'Star Wars' would only do modestly well at the box office and everyone at Fox thought so too.

He (and 20th Century Fox) had absolutely no idea how big Star Wars would do at the cinema or how big the other things (like toys) would get either.

'Star Wars' was simply just another movie that he was making. His next project was going to be something completely different. That was until the one he just finished went through the roof and made him a millionaire.

But there was no great business plan from Lucas. He had a ton of ideas, a roughly planned out story and a vision of a universe that story was going to take place in <- which is a lot more than can be said for Disney.

But he never once thought that it was going to end up the way it did. Not even after 'The Empire Strikes Back' did he envisage his own empire getting so large, and arguably out of control.

Runaways

beauf wrote: »

What story are you referring to?

That link doesn't say he didn't have money problems, its just saying how it turned out to be a smart decision financially in the long run.

But that is why there are so many toys and other stuff. Its a real money spinner.

I’m working off a very broken phone and can’t get past the except cookie screen to be honest but yeah he was a very shrewd man that day he insisted he keep the toy right but they didn’t think it was going to do anything at the box office they wanted rid of it only for Alan ladd fighting Georges corner Did it even get released

SMC92Ian

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

...but not the original films themselves?

I mean, I don’t think the original trilogy is some sacred cow (ROTJ is a junk film and the series had hugely negative impacts on Hollywood filmmaking in general). But I would recommend them to someone so interested in the story behind them

Clearly you didn't read what I wrote 2 pages back then. The making of is a more interesting than the actual films to me.

Tony EH

Runaways wrote: »

I’m working off a very broken phone and can’t get past the except cookie screen to be honest but yeah he was a very shrewd man that day he insisted he keep the toy right but they didn’t think it was going to do anything at the box office they wanted rid of it only for Alan ladd fighting Georges corner Did it even get released

It had nothing to do with being "shrewd". He opted for the toy deal thinking it might bank him an extra few bob on a film he thought would do "ok" at the box office.

All he was looking for out of 'Star Wars' was enough money to allow him to finance his next film. He had absolutely no idea what it was going to turn into. Neither from a cinematic point of view, or a toy sales point of view, which was merely an afterthought. There was no brilliant deal done here by Lucas. He just asked for something and got it off of 20th Century Fox, who weren't that pushed with his demands.

He got lucky.

Runaways

Tony EH wrote: »

It was largely luck though. Lucas thought 'Star Wars' would only do modestly well at the box office and everyone at Fox thought so too.

He (and 20th Century Fox) had absolutely no idea how big Star Wars would do at the cinema or how big the other things (like toys) would get either.

'Star Wars' was simply just another movie that he was making. His next project was going to be something completely different. That was until the one he just finished went through the roof and made him a millionaire.

But there was no great business plan from Lucas. He had a ton of ideas, a roughly planned out story and a vision of a universe that story was going to take place in <- which is a lot more than can be said for Disney.

But he never once thought that it was going to end up the way it did. Not even after 'The Empire Strikes Back' did he envisage his own empire getting so large, and arguably out of control.

That’s either revisionist history or factually incorrect Tony probably both. Fox we’re looking around to sell it to other studios At one poinnt

They had to strong arm big cinema chains to even show it.

And even after a massive success
They fought tooth and nail over every cent on the production of the following two he had to take a massive personal loan to keep empire in production

Tony EH

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I think the originals are dreadful films to watch, I love how they were made and love Lucas but those films are terrible. The prequels also are far far worse. Attack of the Clones is a dreadful film.

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I've seen all of them bar the original 3 and the 2nd prequel...

There aren't enough of these -> :rolleyes: to illustrate how stupid you sound.

There have been people banned for lesser attempts at trolling.

Tony EH

Runaways wrote: »

That’s either revisionist history or factually incorrect Tony probably both. Fox we’re looking around to sell it to other studios At one poinnt

They had to strong arm big cinema chains to even show it.

And even after a massive success
They fought tooth and nail over every cent on the production of the following two he had to take a massive personal loan to keep empire in production

"Revisionist" :pac:

Lucas couldn't get a studio to finance his picture. By the time he got to 20th Century Fox, he'd been around to many others, including UA, Universal, and (ironically) Disney and they all turned him down. Nobody was looking to put money into a film like 'Star Wars' in the 70's. They didn't believe there was any kind of market for that type of film, which Lucas and Kurtz were pitching as an updated Flash Gordon.

He was turned down repeatedly, including by Fox at the beginning, until Alan Ladd Jr eventually decided to have a punt on it and offered Lucas a fairly mid ranged budget to make his "strange little film".

SMC92Ian

Tony EH wrote: »

There aren't enough of these -> :rolleyes: to illustrate how stupid you sound.

There have been people banned for lesser attempts at trolling.

How am I trolling? I haven't seen them properly, I tried, they bored me to death and I laughed at the cringe. I like the newer stuff and shows. So what? I wasn't born so have zero connection with Luke, Leia and Han. My Star Wars was The Clone Wars show and the prequels but they sucked for kids, ironically. By the time I tired to watch the originals I already saw far far superior films, I remember just forwarding through them to get to the action or cool scenes. I don't think I ever got to the third film that time. It was a while back. When Sky got all 6 my friend had the Ewok one on when I was visiting and by fook was it terrible. Creepy teddies fighting troopers and a repeat of the Death Star.

Runaways

Tony EH wrote: »

"Revisionist" :pac:

Lucas couldn't get a studio to finance his picture. By the time he got to 20th Century Fox, he'd been around to many others, including UA, Universal, and (ironically) Disney and they all turned him down. Nobody was looking to put money into a film like 'Star Wars' in the 70's. They didn't believe there was any kind of market for that type of film, which Lucas and Kurtz were pitching as an updated Flash Gordon.

He was turned down repeatedly, including by Fox at the beginning, until Alan Ladd Jr eventually decided to have a punt on it and offered Lucas a fairly mid ranged budget to make his "strange little film".

Ehh Yeah I just said that you’re contradicting your previous post

Tony EH

Runaways wrote: »

Ehh Yeah I just said that you’re contradicting your previous post

It wasn't "contradicting" anything I've said previously.

beauf

It's like no one read the link.

He didn't make a business decision. He made a creative one, he wanted creative control. Just lucked out.

Tony EH

Exactly, he "lucked out", whether the matter was "business" or "creative".

Alan Ladd Jr. took a shine to George Lucas and basically acquiesced to a lot of what he was asking for. But all Lucas really wanted was to make his little film, so he could move onto the next one. If anyone at 20th Century Fox had realised what they had on their hands with 'Star Wars' at that particular time in history, there's no way in hell they would have agreed to what Lucas was asking for.

There was no great master stroke on behalf of Lucas, Kurtz, or anyone. They just wanted the gig and found that Fox were fine with handing $8 million and some extras, because they'd no idea what was going on.

beauf

Well it was creative say the people involved.

It wasn't a shot in the dark, it was on the back of American Graffiti which got five Academy Award nominations.

But it was odd choice to go from that to Star Wars.

Runaways

The unsung hero is his wife at the time Martia
The film was all over the place and even lucas friends told him as much
She saved it in the editing room.
Doesn’t get the credit she deserves

ErnestBorgnine

Runaways wrote: »

The unsung hero is his wife at the time Martia
The film was all over the place and even lucas friends told him as much
She saved it in the editing room.
Doesn’t get the credit she deserves

She, and certain others, were sorely missed in the Prequel era.

Tony EH

beauf wrote: »

Well it was creative say the people involved.

It wasn't a shot in the dark, it was on the back of American Graffiti which got five Academy Award nominations.

But it was odd choice to go from that to Star Wars.

Lucas also did 'THX-1138' and has always expressed an interest in sci-fi/fantasy. Plus, he'd had the basic story knocking around in his head and on paper many years before he went to studios to pitch it. 'Star Wars' was a labour of love for him and it was definitely something he'd wanted to make for a long time.

Tony EH

ErnestBorgnine wrote: »

She, and certain others, were sorely missed in the Prequel era.

Agreed. 'Star Wars' was very much a collaborative exercise, despite being Lucas's baby. It's the result of many people's efforts and that was never more visible when the prequels came about and everyone saw just what could happen when a single guy could get total control over something like that.

It's easy to imagine the original film being a disaster, too, if Lucas had had everything completely his own way in 1977.

Not even Marcia Lucas could have saved it then.

Capt'n Midnight

Tony EH wrote: »

Plus, he'd had the basic story knocking around in his head and on paper many years before he went to studios to pitch it. 'Star Wars' was a labour of love for him and it was definitely something he'd wanted to make for a long time.

Well the basic story was Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress in Frank Herbert's Dunne universe.

Just like The Magnificent Seven was The Seven Samurai set in the Wild West. And Battle Beyond the Stars was The Seven Samurai set in Space.

Silent Running gave special effects, models, droids and more.

Battle of Britain for the aerial combat and to a lesser extent The Dambusters for the trench run.

There was a lot of cut and paste going into Star Wars.

About the only thing he gets a by on is C3PO being a copy of Maria from Metropolis because everyone does that.


And yes his wife saved his bacon with the editing.

Tony EH

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Well the basic story was Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress in Frank Herbert's Dunne universe.

Just like The Magnificent Seven was The Seven Samurai set in the Wild West. And Battle Beyond the Stars was The Seven Samurai set in Space.

Silent Running gave special effects, models, droids and more.

Battle of Britain for the aerial combat and to a lesser extent The Dambusters for the trench run.

There was a lot of cut and paste going into Star Wars.

About the only thing he gets a by on is C3PO being a copy of Maria from Metropolis because everyone does that.

Of course...and numerous other things that he'd riffed on as well.

The point being, though, that 'Star Wars' didn't just come from nowhere. Lucas didn't just wake up one morning and decide that that was going be his next project after 'American Graffiti'. He'd been working on it for years, in one form or another, before the first camera rolled.

beauf

He certainly says that and gives that impression. But that's a bit of revisionism to give credibility to all the changes he made and to the story that make no sense. You might argue it was in his head. But I don't find that credible. He just didn't have the material to reference when he started work on star wars. What he did have and it was very little was very different to what SW became.

I don't think star wars has any thing in common with his earlier work. Cinematography yes. Drama yes. But nothing else. I know people draw parallels in characters and general themes but I think it's too big a stretch.

It does however feel very similar to the movies it takes influence from. I'm not saying is a copy. More he has understood how and why those films work and built something new from those core elements and foundations. That's visionary and insightful.

Tony EH

beauf wrote: »

He certainly says that and gives that impression. But that's a bit of revisionism to give credibility to all the changes he made and to the story that make no sense.

That's not what I'm saying.

The "Starkiller" idea for a story had been floating around in George Lucas' head since 1970 or so. He wrote a first serious draft of that in 73 and subsequent drafts of it until it morphed, with many changes, into what became the 'Star Wars' shooting script of 1976.

It had a long development cycle. All of the first half of the 70's in fact. So, it wasn't just something he decided on doing all of a sudden. It was probably always going to be a project of his that he was going to try at some stage. 1976 just happened to be the right time and the right place.

beauf wrote: »

I don't think star wars has any thing in common with his earlier work. Cinematography yes. Drama yes. But nothing else. I know people draw parallels in characters and general themes but I think it's too big a stretch.

But this doesn't matter, does it? A lot of film makers pursue different projects that have nothing in common with previous efforts. When Lucas was shooting 'American Graffiti', he was working on refining "Starkiller" into 'Star Wars' to some degree.

Stanley Kubrick followed up 'Dr. Strangelove' with '2001 A Space Odyssey'. Completely different films and he was working on a Napoleon script while he made them.

beauf

Runaways wrote: »

The scene with Luke breaking into leias prison cell was originally filmed as I am luke Starkiller I’m here to rescue you

It was Originally titled the adventures of Luke star killer as taken from the Journal of the whillls

A journal of barely two pages.

Runaways

beauf wrote: »

A journal of barely two pages.

Well actually no he filled entire journals about this and rewrote and re-wrote


You should get these for the actual history they are amazing day by day almost and Lucas and lfl published

beauf

Tony EH wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying.

The "Starkiller" idea for a story had been floating around in George Lucas' head since 1970 or so. He wrote a first serious draft of that in 73 and subsequent drafts of it until it morphed, with many changes, into what became the 'Star Wars' shooting script of 1976.
...

The general idea of a space epic. Some similarities in characters, locations, etc.

But if Luke and Vader storylines changed radically before Start wars. It is not feasible that the subsequent storylines of the sequels and prequels were already known at that time. Even in rough.

What he wrote was stew of ideas. Hence the continuity disconnects between the movies.

Well in my opinion anyway.

Runaways

beauf wrote: »

A journal of barely two pages.

Well actually no he filled entire journals about this and rewrote and re-wrote


You should get these for the actual history they are amazing day by day almost and Lucas and lfl published

EltonJohn69

Frank Herbert should have seen 80% of all Star Wars profits.

Runaways

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Frank Herbert should have seen 80% of all Star Wars profits.

Did he invent Flash Gordon or Akira Kurosawa’s Dreams?

If so totally

mikhail

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Frank Herbert should have seen 80% of all Star Wars profits.

All Dune and Star Wars have in common is that they're hero's journeys set in space with fantasy elements. It's like arguing that Jurassic Park ripped off The Island of Doctor Moreau.