Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

AdamD

I'm sure there were a few reasons for the tour, wouldn't agree its pointless. I doubt anybody expected competitive games though

Shefwedfan

D14Rugby wrote: »

Haven't seen it here but the 'A' team won on Sunday night NE FreeJacks 12 Leinster 'A' 55. What a pointless tour, my within 20 points was even too generous.

Hardly pointless....


The US is a huge market, the potential is massive. I was at the Ireland v NZ match in Chicago and you forget the potential. Like the parade in the morning forthe Cubs winning, more people at that parade than in the whole of Ireland :eek:


Boston has a huge Irish community. The US are starting up a rugby league and a lot of Irish are playing and running the league. It is good to help them get on their feet and wouldn't hurt to pick up a few expat Leinster fans...


I remember years ago Man Utd doing American tours and people said it was pointless....how much money do Utd make out of the US market now? now I dont expect Leinster to get that big but it wouldnt hurt.....


It's not like the tour affected the season, should have sent the 1st team over and keep the kids here:p

D14Rugby

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hardly pointless....


The US is a huge market, the potential is massive. I was at the Ireland v NZ match in Chicago and you forget the potential. Like the parade in the morning forthe Cubs winning, more people at that parade than in the whole of Ireland :eek:


Boston has a huge Irish community. The US are starting up a rugby league and a lot of Irish are playing and running the league. It is good to help them get on their feet and wouldn't hurt to pick up a few expat Leinster fans...


I remember years ago Man Utd doing American tours and people said it was pointless....how much money do Utd make out of the US market now? now I dont expect Leinster to get that big but it wouldnt hurt.....


It's not like the tour affected the season, should have sent the 1st team over and keep the kids here:p

Around a thousand people at the game, not even in the same ballpark of the attendances man United get or got. The squad was a shambles too, players were turning it down left right and centre if they weren't contracted to Leinster.
Tour was just a way to give two fingers to the AIL that backfired on Leinster a bit and still pissed off everyone in the club game.

arsebiscuits1

D14Rugby wrote: »

Around a thousand people at the game, not even in the same ballpark of the attendances man United get or got. The squad was a shambles too, players were turning it down left right and centre if they weren't contracted to Leinster.
Tour was just a way to give two fingers to the AIL that backfired on Leinster a bit and still pissed off everyone in the club game.

Nice potential for a bit of window shopping for some MLR teams.

Shefwedfan

D14Rugby wrote: »

Around a thousand people at the game, not even in the same ballpark of the attendances man United get or got. The squad was a shambles too, players were turning it down left right and centre if they weren't contracted to Leinster.
Tour was just a way to give two fingers to the AIL that backfired on Leinster a bit and still pissed off everyone in the club game.

I listened to a number of podcastover the last 12 months and it went on about the rugby league they are starting up in America. I know an Irish guy is running the New York team. What he wanted was player that maybe drop out of Irish system and wanted a chance to go over to US...


I would guess the US teams wanted lots of the younger players coming over. Show them around and maybe turn a few heads if they didn't get picked up over here



From an Irish view it helps the whole relationship IRFU and America. Especially if they plan on putting in a Pro14 side...


No idea what the AIL has to do with anything,



Not sure how it back fired? Leinster got a wad of money anyway

D14Rugby

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I listened to a number of podcastover the last 12 months and it went on about the rugby league they are starting up in America. I know an Irish guy is running the New York team. What he wanted was player that maybe drop out of Irish system and wanted a chance to go over to US...


I would guess the US teams wanted lots of the younger players coming over. Show them around and maybe turn a few heads if they didn't get picked up over here



From an Irish view it helps the whole relationship IRFU and America. Especially if they plan on putting in a Pro14 side...


No idea what the AIL has to do with anything,



Not sure how it back fired? Leinster got a wad of money anyway

Bit in bold says it all really. Half the players that went over aren't actually contracted to Leinster, they're sub academy players. The players that were contracted were pulled out of competitive AIL games to go walk all over the poor american team with half of their own squad made up of players they'll probably never play with again for Leinster. It backfired because players turned the tour down to stay and play AIL or weren't asked because Leinster knew there'd be uproar from the clubs leaving Leinster to players that play for their clubs U20's and have finished that season.

The timing was done purely to piss off clubs and it's not fair on the American team either because everyone and their mother saw those results coming.

arsebiscuits1

D14Rugby wrote: »

Bit in bold says it all really. Half the players that went over aren't actually contracted to Leinster, they're sub academy players. The players that were contracted were pulled out of competitive AIL games to go walk all over the poor american team with half of their own squad made up of players they'll probably never play with again for Leinster. It backfired because players turned the tour down to stay and play AIL or weren't asked because Leinster knew there'd be uproar from the clubs leaving Leinster to players that play for their clubs U20's and have finished that season.

The timing was done purely to piss off clubs and it's not fair on the American team either because everyone and their mother saw those results coming.

Normally I let the conspiracy theorist off with the strange "**** the man" agenda.

But do you really think this?

Do you honestly think that the provinces/ IRFU sat down and said "right, let's make life as difficult as possible for the clubs"

You're completely deluded if you think that and it's really indicative of the inferiority complex that goes so readily hand in hand with some domestic clubs.

Harsh truths buddy. The IRFU and Leinster aren't actively trying to **** over the AIL.

The AIL just isn't as important as some people are led to believe

kingofthekong

D14Rugby wrote: »

Bit in bold says it all really. Half the players that went over aren't actually contracted to Leinster, they're sub academy players. The players that were contracted were pulled out of competitive AIL games to go walk all over the poor american team with half of their own squad made up of players they'll probably never play with again for Leinster. It backfired because players turned the tour down to stay and play AIL or weren't asked because Leinster knew there'd be uproar from the clubs leaving Leinster to players that play for their clubs U20's and have finished that season.

The timing was done purely to piss off clubs and it's not fair on the American team either because everyone and their mother saw those results coming.

They didnt set the timing to piss off the AIl clubs take of your tinfoil hat - sounds like your the only one pissed off about it ,

Ok so if the players involved in AIL teams turned the tour down and played for their clubs instead then whats the issue....both got what they wanted - AIL kept their players and leinster got to give some youngsters who may otherwise never get a chance a go at impressing the coaches and maybe being looked at further...

I really cant see why this tour had a negative effect on anyone...

D14Rugby

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Normally I let the conspiracy theorist off with the strange "**** the man" agenda.

But do you really think this?

Do you honestly think that the provinces/ IRFU sat down and said "right, let's make life as difficult as possible for the clubs"

You're completely deluded if you think that and it's really indicative of the inferiority complex that goes so readily hand in hand with some domestic clubs.

Harsh truths buddy. The IRFU and Leinster aren't actively trying to **** over the AIL.

The AIL just isn't as important as some people are led to believe

The "cup" was announced just after the clubs rejected the IRFU's pretty ludicrous plans for the AIL were comprehensibly rejected, then they announce this "cup" in March/April during the last few rounds of the AIL season when clubs will be battling for promotion/play-offs/to stay up, against a team that don't start their league until mid Febuary, you do the maths.

kingofthekong wrote: »

They didnt set the timing to piss off the AIl clubs take of your tinfoil hat - sounds like your the only one pissed off about it ,

Ok so if the players involved in AIL teams turned the tour down and played for their clubs instead then whats the issue....both got what they wanted - AIL kept their players and leinster got to give some youngsters who may otherwise never get a chance a go at impressing the coaches and maybe being looked at further...

I really cant see why this tour had a negative effect on anyone...

Only sub academy and non academy players had the option to say no, the likes of Trinity, Landsowne, Clontarf, Terenure, UCD all lost full academy players who didn't get a choice.

molloyjh

You realise it takes time to arrange international competitions like this. If it was announced "just after" anything then it was well and truly in the works beforehand.

Tarf1234

D14Rugby wrote: »

The "cup" was announced just after the clubs rejected the IRFU's pretty ludicrous plans for the AIL were comprehensibly rejected, then they announce this "cup" in March/April during the last few rounds of the AIL season when clubs will be battling for promotion/play-offs/to stay up, against a team that don't start their league until mid Febuary, you do the maths.



Only sub academy and non academy players had the option to say no, the likes of Trinity, Landsowne, Clontarf, Terenure, UCD all lost full academy players who didn't get a choice.

Not much point getting involved in this.... Incredibly obvious to anyone with any connection to the club game.

kingofthekong

D14Rugby wrote: »

The "cup" was announced just after the clubs rejected the IRFU's pretty ludicrous plans for the AIL were comprehensibly rejected, then they announce this "cup" in March/April during the last few rounds of the AIL season when clubs will be battling for promotion/play-offs/to stay up, against a team that don't start their league until mid Febuary, you do the maths.



Only sub academy and non academy players had the option to say no, the likes of Trinity, Landsowne, Clontarf, Terenure, UCD all lost full academy players who didn't get a choice.

Ok but full academy players are getting their bills payed by Leinster not the clubs so technically Leinster rightfully have a say on where they should be playing.. why do they AIL clubs have the right to take Leinster contracted players

D14Rugby

molloyjh wrote: »

You realise it takes time to arrange international competitions like this. If it was announced "just after" anything then it was well and truly in the works beforehand.

AIL clubs rejected plans for revamp at the end of August, Cara cup was announced start of November, plenty of time to arrange it

D14Rugby

kingofthekong wrote: »

Ok but full academy players are getting their bills payed by Leinster not the clubs so technically Leinster rightfully have a say on where they should be playing.. why do they AIL clubs have the right to take Leinster contracted players

Well yeah that's exactly why I said the players in the academy didn't have a choice. Doesn't mean they wanted to play, the IRFU basically used them as pawns in their petty power play move over the clubs.

stephen_n

D14Rugby wrote: »

Well yeah that's exactly why I said the players in the academy didn't have a choice. Doesn't mean they wanted to play, the IRFU basically used them as pawns in their petty power play move over the clubs.

Of perhaps they thought that this was a better learning curve for academy players than AIL games. Primarily the Munster game, as the American one seemed to be AIL standard.

Stainalert

stephen_n wrote: »

Of perhaps they thought that this was a better learning curve for academy players than AIL games. Primarily the Munster game, as the American one seemed to be AIL standard.

American was AIL standard! That is a huge insult to the AIL

D14Rugby

stephen_n wrote: »

Of perhaps they thought that this was a better learning curve for academy players than AIL games. Primarily the Munster game, as the American one seemed to be AIL standard.

AIL 2C maybe, at best, the Americans were bloody brutal. The MLR in general is about 1A/B standard at the best franchises NE were nowhere near that. Bar Duncan Williams the Munster team was all players that play most of their rugby in the AIL too.

Shefwedfan

For a minute I though I was in the soccer forum talking about the FAI and the Irish league :-)

Shefwedfan

If I took off my tin foil hat might the tournament be played in April because Major League Rugby was launched in April 2018? like a little Birthday....

I shall put my tin foil hat back on now.....

D14Rugby

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For a minute I though I was in the soccer forum talking about the FAI and the Irish league :-)

Be a bit weird for a conversation to be about the FAI and the Irish league as opposed to the FAI and League of Ireland or the IFA and the Irish league

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If I took off my tin foil hat might the tournament be played in April because Major League Rugby was launched in April 2018? like a little Birthday....

I shall put my tin foil hat back on now.....

You might have had a point if the games were all played in April or if they came close to the actual anniversary or if there was any mention of it whatsoever even or if it was an MLR event and not just a New England Free Jacks event.

Shefwedfan

D14Rugby wrote: »

Be a bit weird for a conversation to be about the FAI and the Irish league as opposed to the FAI and League of Ireland or the IFA and the Irish league

You leave the farmers out of this

D14Rugby wrote: »

You might have had a point if the games were all played in April or if they came close to the actual anniversary or if there was any mention of it whatsoever even or if it was an MLR event and not just a New England Free Jacks event.

As I said, keep that tin foil hat out....The Truth Is Out There

The Lost Sheep

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I listened to a number of podcastover the last 12 months and it went on about the rugby league they are starting up in America. I know an Irish guy is running the New York team. What he wanted was player that maybe drop out of Irish system and wanted a chance to go over to US...

Yeah they will look a lot at guys who couldnt make pro contracts here or even get looked at by academies etc here

From an Irish view it helps the whole relationship IRFU and America. Especially if they plan on putting in a Pro14 side...

it does especially regard world rugby votes etc

No idea what the AIL has to do with anything,

everything considering timing of the games.

Not sure how it back fired? Leinster got a wad of money anyway

Pissed some in club game off.

D14Rugby wrote: »

Bit in bold says it all really. Half the players that went over aren't actually contracted to Leinster, they're sub academy players. The players that were contracted were pulled out of competitive AIL games to go walk all over the poor american team with half of their own squad made up of players they'll probably never play with again for Leinster. It backfired because players turned the tour down to stay and play AIL or weren't asked because Leinster knew there'd be uproar from the clubs leaving Leinster to players that play for their clubs U20's and have finished that season.

The timing was done purely to piss off clubs and it's not fair on the American team either because everyone and their mother saw those results coming.

And some who got to travel got provincial experience/greater chance to play for a pro contract they otherwise wouldnt. Personally for a player would you turn it down?
Bit much to say timing was purely to piss clubs off.

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Normally I let the conspiracy theorist off with the strange "**** the man" agenda.

But do you really think this?

Do you honestly think that the provinces/ IRFU sat down and said "right, let's make life as difficult as possible for the clubs"

You're completely deluded if you think that and it's really indicative of the inferiority complex that goes so readily hand in hand with some domestic clubs.

Harsh truths buddy. The IRFU and Leinster aren't actively trying to **** over the AIL.

The AIL just isn't as important as some people are led to believe

I wouldnt go that far as all pro's will play AIL and its key part of players development. Even guys like a James Ryan will have played season and more of AIL games.

D14Rugby wrote: »

The "cup" was announced just after the clubs rejected the IRFU's pretty ludicrous plans for the AIL were comprehensibly rejected, then they announce this "cup" in March/April during the last few rounds of the AIL season when clubs will be battling for promotion/play-offs/to stay up, against a team that don't start their league until mid Febuary, you do the maths.

Only sub academy and non academy players had the option to say no, the likes of Trinity, Landsowne, Clontarf, Terenure, UCD all lost full academy players who didn't get a choice.

Announced doesnt mean it was only decided then. A cross continental competition like this wouldnt have been arranged this quickly.

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Not much point getting involved in this.... Incredibly obvious to anyone with any connection to the club game.

D14Rugby wrote: »

AIL 2C maybe, at best, the Americans were bloody brutal. The MLR in general is about 1A/B standard at the best franchises NE were nowhere near that. Bar Duncan Williams the Munster team was all players that play most of their rugby in the AIL too.

That just isnt true about the level of the teams...

Shefwedfan

Let put it this way.....

A. Play a game in AIL in pissing rain in April
B. Play a game in pissing rain(no idea what weather was like) in Boston but you get to stay around Boston for a week or two

I know if I was a young player which option I would choose.....AIL or no AIL.....how many chances will they get to do it again?

D14Rugby

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And some who got to travel got provincial experience/greater chance to play for a pro contract they otherwise wouldnt. Personally for a player would you turn it down?
Bit much to say timing was purely to piss clubs off.

Announced doesnt mean it was only decided then. A cross continental competition like this wouldnt have been arranged this quickly.

That just isnt true about the level of the teams...

I personally know people who chose AIL over going to the US because they knew the opposition would be ****e and an AIL game would be better for them.

Thus why I pointed out there was a 2 month gap, plenty of time to arrange it.

Yes it is, I regularly watch the MLR and considering the amount of ex AIL players over there it's fairly easy to compare the league and the standard of the better teams is very much 1 A/B level.

Shefwedfan

D14Rugby wrote: »

I personally know people who chose AIL over going to the US because they knew the opposition would be ****e and an AIL game would be better for them.

Thus why I pointed out there was a 2 month gap, plenty of time to arrange it.

Yes it is, I regularly watch the MLR and considering the amount of ex AIL players over there it's fairly easy to compare the league and the standard of the better teams is very much 1 A/B level.

So a player getting nothing for playing in AIL turns down a free trip to the US to see Boston, all expense paid? You just went that step too far

Is MLR on tv?

Squidgy Black

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So a player getting nothing for playing in AIL turns down a free trip to the US to see Boston, all expense paid? You just went that step too far

Is MLR on tv?

Yes, several players turned the trip down in favour of staying and playing AIL with their clubs.

I was disappointed to hear that it'd been scheduled for what is always considered a crunch period for the AIL and the reality that clubs would end up missing out on vital players. However, it's coming close to exam period for any players who are in college, and then summer holidays come into the equation, and obviously the availability of the MLR players etc, so I'm sure the IRFU didn't just ignore the club's altogether as they would have been aware it was going to piss them off in some way.

Dubinusa

The Freejacks are poor. But, they will improve.
They are hoping to sign some of the lads that toured.
I didn't know many of the Leinster A side, but they were vastly better.
I was delighted to see the provinces come over here and play.
The Yanks in the crowd were very impressed with Leinster.
I think the mlr could be a route to some Irish lads to the pro ranks.
There's a few over in the mlr already.

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yes, several players turned the trip down in favour of staying and playing AIL with their clubs.

I was disappointed to hear that it'd been scheduled for what is always considered a crunch period for the AIL and the reality that clubs would end up missing out on vital players. However, it's coming close to exam period for any players who are in college, and then summer holidays come into the equation, and obviously the availability of the MLR players etc, so I'm sure the IRFU didn't just ignore the club's altogether as they would have been aware it was going to piss them off in some way.

Seriously something up with the youth of today!!!



Getting a chance to go to the US, also impressing and you never know a professional contract in the US...


Exams, you can't study in US?

Squidgy Black

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Seriously something up with the youth of today!!!



Getting a chance to go to the US, also impressing and you never know a professional contract in the US...


Exams, you can't study in US?

If you're travelling and training etc over the length of the tour, and team bonding exercises, it'd be fairly hard to get any decent study in depending on your course.

Lads have been playing with their clubs all year, some have been with their club for several years, I'm not surprised at all that some would have turned down a trip to the US in favour of staying back and playing with their club to try and win a spot in the playoffs etc which is something they've trained and worked for the entire year. Bit disingenuous to suggest that they just brush that aside.

D14Rugby

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So a player getting nothing for playing in AIL turns down a free trip to the US to see Boston, all expense paid? You just went that step too far

Is MLR on tv?

As has been said students have exams coming up and those not in college would have to take time off work to go on an unpaid trip. It may also surprise you to hear that maybe people didn't want to abandon their club in a relegation fight/promotion push/ playoff push.

It's streamed on Facebook.