Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Sierra Oscar

The jury in the Manafort trial are heading into their fourth day of deliberations. Can't be much longer at this stage.

jooksavage

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The jury in the Manafort trial are heading into their fourth day of deliberations. Can't be much longer at this stage.

Bit odd that the jury weren't sequestered considering the profile of the trial. Judge Ellis doesn't seem very clued in: says he was surprised at the level of media attention the trial has gotten... huh?!

Sierra Oscar

jooksavage wrote: »

Bit odd that the jury weren't sequestered considering the profile of the trial. Judge Ellis doesn't seem very clued in: says he was surprised at the level of media attention the trial has gotten... huh?!

I agree. It's astounding the jury wasn't sequestered. You could argue that many of the tweets made by the President himself in recent weeks have sought to influence the jury.

Leroy42

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I agree. It's astounding the jury wasn't sequestered. You could argue that many of the tweets made by the President himself in recent weeks have sought to influence the jury.

There is no argument at all

amandstu

Leroy42 wrote: »

There is no argument at all

Yes I assumed the jury was sequestered and so his tweets would have no effect.

What is required for a verdict ? Majority? 12/0? 11/1?

Quin_Dub

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The jury in the Manafort trial are heading into their fourth day of deliberations. Can't be much longer at this stage.

Watching the news again last night - In US for work at present so sadly flicking between CNN & Fox news in the hotel a lot!!!

The point was made that other similarly complex trials took a long time for a verdict.. one of the examples they gave was the Scooter Libby trial where the jury took 12 days to arrive at the verdict.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

It is reassuring to know that Donald has surrounding himself with only the "best and most serious people" :rolleyes:

Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Richard Gates, George Papadopoulos, Michael Cohen etc etc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The manafort trial is all to do with money laundering and activities in the Ukraine years before the election, nothing to do with trump , but sure its the US, if Hillary could get away with everything she did to interfere in an election then im damn sure manafort can get away with this non election based criminality.

everlast75

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The manafort trial is all to do with money laundering and activities in the Ukraine years before the election, nothing to do with trump , but sure its the US, if Hillary could get away with everything she did to interfere in an election then im damn sure manafort can get away with this non election based criminality.

Who won the election?
Pretty sure it wasn't Hilary. So if she did anything, she did a negligible job.
But I'm sure the Republican House, Senate, Justice and Intelligence departments are all over it.... that's if there was anything to find of course.
I'm sure they will eventually get around to "locking her up"... 18 months and counting... nothing yet though. Ain't that curious?

Mind you, remind me again who did win the election?
The guy who had the assistance of Russian Government Agents?
The guy Putin said he wanted to win?
The guy who refuses to acknowledge or sanction Russia for interfering with the election?
The guy who has done nothing to stop further interference by Russia?
The guy being investigated by a Special Counsel?
The guy whose Campaign Chair is facing life in prison, under two separate trials?
The guy whose personal lawyer is accused of 20m dollars in tax fraud.
That guy?

And not for nothing, but it emerged in evidence that Manafort took millions of dollars in loans from a small bank on the promise that he would push said manager of the bank for Secretary of the Army. So, Trump trusted Manafort and Manafort was confident enough to make that promise, email Kushner who replied "On it".. so what does that tell you about DJT? Yep the trial is about money laundering.. but isn't it incredible that everyone around Trump is neck deep in criminality.

Leroy42

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Watching the news again last night - In US for work at present so sadly flicking between CNN & Fox news in the hotel a lot!!!

The point was made that other similarly complex trials took a long time for a verdict.. one of the examples they gave was the Scooter Libby trial where the jury took 12 days to arrive at the verdict.

Its not unusual given the level of detail, the number of charges (18 isn't it?). Its been classed as a slam dunk in parts of the media, but it is never that simple. These guys set up complex webs of bank accounts and fake documents to cover their tracks and in many cases it is not possible to simple present a 'gotcha' document.

So the jury have to review the evidence, try to understand it, and then try to ascertain if any laws were actually broken.

It not just a simple, if guilty of one then guilty for all. They each have to be considered on their own merits.

The fact of Trump, and possible implications to the Mueller probe is also bound to be playing a part in the jury's thoughts on this.

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its not unusual given the level of detail, the number of charges (18 isn't it?). Its been classed as a slam dunk in parts of the media, but it is never that simple. These guys set up complex webs of bank accounts and fake documents to cover their tracks and in many cases it is not possible to simple present a 'gotcha' document.

So the jury have to review the evidence, try to understand it, and then try to ascertain if any laws were actually broken.

It not just a simple, if guilty of one then guilty for all. They each have to be considered on their own merits.

The fact of Trump, and possible implications to the Mueller probe is also bound to be playing a part in the jury's thoughts on this.

they stayed late last night. Might be an indication of pushing it over the line today. We will see. We have his DC case next month coming up too, GP's sentencing next week, Woodward's book in 3 weeks or so and each passing day DJT's tweets are getting more and more reckless. Its almost a case of giving the guy enough rope... and hoping he doesn't hang the whole Country

Eric Cartman

Christy42 wrote: »

I wonder if Manafort's lawyer attempted the "But Hillary!" defense.

Seriously is the tactic just to assume Hillary is guilty of everything and this then justifies "our" guys doing whatever they like?

I was just making a comparison, OJ would have worked too, its the country where you can be a criminal, everyone knows it and you still get away.

Luckily it won't tarnish the excellent job President Donald J. Trump is doing .

2020 is around the corner, I can't wait for his re-election , #MAGA

aloyisious

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I was just making a comparison, OJ would have worked too, its the country where you can be a criminal, everyone knows it and you still get away.

Luckily it won't tarnish the excellent job President Donald J. Trump is doing .

2020 is around the corner, I can't wait for his re-election , #MAGA

Unless you're Mexican, a foreigner [excepting European] or a female political candidate standing for US president. Which reminds me, in the next debate, if Don was a candidate and tried to repeat his Psych-out trick of walking from his podium to stroll around behind the other debater and got a slap or a punch for his pains from that person off-site, would you think that, given how Don has said he'd like to punch other opponents, he should just shut up and take it like a man, comparison-wise?

Eric Cartman

aloyisious wrote: »

Unless you're Mexican, a foreigner [excepting European] or a female political candidate standing for US president. Which reminds me, in the next debate, if Don was a candidate and tried to repeat his Psych-out trick of walking from his podium to stroll around behind the other debater and got a slap or a punch for his pains from that person off-site, would you think that, given how Don has said he'd like to punch other opponents, he should just shut up and take it like a man, comparison-wise?

If you think the hillary gaye had anything to do with her gender then jog on, she was a terroble candidate that was all

aloyisious

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If you think the hillary gaye had anything to do with her gender then jog on, she was a terroble candidate that was all

Meantime, back to my unanswered question.

B0jangles

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I was just making a comparison, OJ would have worked too, its the country where you can be a criminal, everyone knows it and you still get away.

Luckily it won't tarnish the excellent job President Donald J. Trump is doing .

2020 is around the corner, I can't wait for his re-election , #MAGA

If the Clintons are so obviously criminal, why are the Republicans incapable of producing a single sustainable charge against them?

Heaven knows, they've talked about it long enough, Trump made it a platform of his campaign to 'Lock Her Up', if I remember correctly.

It seems to me the options are:

1. Republicans are too incompetent to do so (which bodes ill for MAGA).
2. Republicans are profoundly corrupt and have been paid off by the Clintons (again, not so great for MAGA).

3. Maaaaybe the Clintons aren't actually supervillains and for all the investigations and rumour, there isn't actually a sustainable case against them? (crazy I know!)

You have to accept that if criminal claims are true about the Clintons, then the Republicans are either profoundly incompetent or profoundly compromised.

Captain Obvious

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I was just making a comparison, OJ would have worked too, its the country where you can be a criminal, everyone knows it and you still get away.

Luckily it won't tarnish the excellent job President Donald J. Trump is doing .

2020 is around the corner, I can't wait for his re-election , #MAGA

Difference between Hillary and OJ was that there was evidence to prove OJ committed a crime.

everlast75

Another note from the jury, asking the judge a question.

Is this what they refer to as "edging"?

batgoat

everlast75 wrote: »

Another note from the jury, asking the judge a question.

Is this what they refer to as "edging"?

Edging means something much more different to me... :pac: Hope it's not that! I briefly thought there was an 'edging' part to the evidence that they needed explained...

everlast75

It was just a little humour


https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1031928204322328576?s=19

everlast75

Poorly worded question.

Could mean they can't reach a verdict on one, or can't reach a verdict on any one of them.

Fingers crossed for the former. If it is that, then we should have the verdict soon

everlast75

sorry for the tweet dump. It is breaking news and I suspect some on here will want to know asap what is happening


https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1031929796559872000

everlast75

Take this with a large shovel full of salt, but MSNBC is reporting that Cohen is in talks to make a deal with SDNY "today"...

When it rains, it pours eh?

Hande hoche!

everlast75 wrote: »

Take this with a large shovel full of salt, but MSNBC is reporting that Cohen is in talks to make a deal with SDNY "today"...

When it rains, it pours eh?

Various media were saying that he would be charged or do a deal before the end of the month. Seems consistent with that time frame.

StringerBell

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I was just making a comparison, OJ would have worked too, its the country where you can be a criminal, everyone knows it and you still get away.

Luckily it won't tarnish the excellent job President Donald J. Trump is doing .

2020 is around the corner, I can't wait for his re-election , #MAGA

Used the wrong hashtag, and you weren't just making any old comparison, you were trying to be clever it just didn't work out.

You will do better next time #ibelieveinyou

Hande hoche!

Might be a plea deal soonish...
https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1031952430362181634

Christy42

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Christy42 wrote: »

I wonder if Manafort's lawyer attempted the "But Hillary!" defense.

Seriously is the tactic just to assume Hillary is guilty of everything and this then justifies "our" guys doing whatever they like?

I was just making a comparison, OJ would have worked too, its the country where you can be a criminal, everyone knows it and you still get away.

Luckily it won't tarnish the excellent job President Donald J. Trump is doing .

2020 is around the corner, I can't wait for his re-election , #MAGA

So if one person gets away with a crime everything should be legal? I really can't read that any other way but I am assuming that is not what you are saying.

I am not sure any country where OJ getting off 20 years ago means someone should get away tax fraud is a country being made great again.

dudara

Just saw breaking news that Cohen has cut a plea deal.

And also, Steele, author of the Steele dossier, has had a defamation suit bought against him by some Russian oligarchs dismissed. This doesn’t act as a validation for the dossier, but it does mean that the judge found no evidence that it was deliberately fabricated either.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/21/author-of-trump-russia-dossier-wins-libel-case-in-us-court-christopher-steele

Captain Obvious

dudara wrote: »

Just saw breaking news that Cohen has cut a plea deal.

did it say for what charges?

dudara

Only saw a headline. Will see if there’s more out there.

Water John

Prosecutor announcement at 4 pm, two hours time. That will charge or deal or both.