Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

everlast75

RobertKK wrote: »

Susan Collins can see through the lies of CBF, with Ford's friend saying she felt pressured to change her initial statement and her ex-boyfriend exposing the lies and the FBI finding nothing.
It would have been wrong if she had decided on No as her vote based on no evidence but people showing up that CBF wasn't the credible person that some made her out to be as all her other claims had been debunked.

You keep focusing in on that and ignoring everything else.

Some people can't see the wood for the trees.

2 Scoops

RobertKK wrote: »

Susan Collins can see through the lies of CBF, with Ford's friend saying she felt pressured to change her initial statement and her ex-boyfriend exposing the lies and the FBI finding nothing.
It would have been wrong if she had decided on No as her vote based on no evidence but people showing up that CBF wasn't the credible person that some made her out to be as all her other claims had been debunked.

Something is going on with that McLean woman, she's the same Woman named by the ex boyfriend of Ford who claimed she was coached on a polygraph test by Ford.

https://twitter.com/nataliewsj/status/1048077668292419584

enfant terrible

Congratulations Judge Kavanaugh you survived the Democrat smears.

The interesting point is judge Ginsburg is 85 years old and i don't think the Democrat fanatics will tolerate another Conservative judge on the Supreme Court.

My hook or by crook they will stop Trumps next pick, they got close with Kavanaugh and the smears if even possible will get worse with the next conservative candidate.

MightyMandarin

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Yes I watched it. The woman featured in the video, Melissa Byrne, is paid and she tries to organise protests. The video doesn't mention the two women who confronted Flake, Maria Gallagher and Ana Maria Archila, as being paid.

Watch it again then. At 2:31 it clearly shows that it was Melissa Byrne and her team who harassed Flake in the lift. The fact at least one of them was paid full-time to do this rubbish is enough to realise that some elements of this protest are a bloody joke.

Itssoeasy

2scoops I've a question. Take the Kavanagh issue out of it, did you believe prof Ford was lying and was she a credible witness ? I'm just curious and not looking for an argument.

Itssoeasy

enfant terrible wrote: »

Congratulations Judge Kavanaugh you survived the Democrat smears.

The interesting point is judge Ginsburg is 85 years old and i don't think the Democrat fanatics will tolerate another Conservative judge on the Supreme Court.

My hook or by crook they will stop Trumps next pick, they got close with Kavanaugh and the smears if even possible will get worse with the next conservative candidate.

What are you celebrating for ? This has shown the US senate on both sides to be a complete disaster. This will make the US more divided then it already was.

aloyisious

I've just watched Senator Manchin being interviewed on CNN and one of the questions put to him was did he believe the Prof about what she said happened [to her] at the party. He said that he believed something did happen [to the Prof at the party]. He wasn't asked what he meant by that. It seems that Senator Collins has said that her decision to vote Yes for the judge is that there was no corroboration from any else at the party to the Prof's story, The crux of the matter is the alleged sexual assault and there were only three people present in the room capable of giving witness statements to it. Maybe I'm wrong on the totting up of witnesses that could have swayed Senator Collins decision but if Mark Judge had corroborated the Prof's line and not Judge Kavanaugh line, it seems likely that Senator Collins might have voted NO to the judge getting a seat on the USSC. It could well have been that close.

I've noted the ABA seeming to be taking a stance against the judge in respect of his behaviour and competency record to be a fit person, in it's opinion, to sit on the USSC bench. If that's all the ABA does and does not make it clear that it will not recognize him or sit in court when he sits in the USSC to hear cases, then the ABA is just waffling.

2 Scoops

Itssoeasy wrote: »

2scoops I've a question. Take the Kavanagh issue out of it, did you believe prof Ford was lying and was she a credible witness ? I'm just curious and not looking for an argument.

She might believe in her own mind she's being truthful and still might be wrong that it was Kavanaugh who assaulted her. I don't know what to believe, the facts don't back up her story. I have a really hard time believing that she doesn't remember how she got home from the party and nobody has come forward to say they drove her there or back. The date I can forgive, the location is sort of pushing it, but not to remember how you got there and back over 6 miles + really makes me feel her story is not credible. Then you factor in the witnesses named don't corroborate her story.

Itssoeasy

2 Scoops wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

2scoops I've a question. Take the Kavanagh issue out of it, did you believe prof Ford was lying and was she a credible witness ? I'm just curious and not looking for an argument.

She might believe in her own mind she's being truthful and still might be wrong that it was Kavanaugh who assaulted her. I don't know what to believe, the facts don't back up her story. I have a really hard time believing that she doesn't remember how she got home from the party. The date I can forgive, the location is sort of pushing it, but not to remember how you got there and back over 6 miles + really makes me feel her story is not credible. Then you factor in the witnesses named don't corroborate her story.

Okay thanks. At least unlike Robertkk you dont seem to be calling her an outright lier which I think is helpful. And would you accept that the passage of 36 years would hinder broad memories of some of her testimony having had something as terrible as sexual assault(I think we can all agree sexual assault is wrong) ?

Anyway thanks for at least answering my question.

batgoat

2 Scoops wrote: »

She might believe in her own mind she's being truthful and still might be wrong that it was Kavanaugh who assaulted her. I don't know what to believe, the facts don't back up her story. I have a really hard time believing that she doesn't remember how she got home from the party and nobody has come forward to say they drove her there or back. The date I can forgive, the location is sort of pushing it, but not to remember how you got there and back over 6 miles + really makes me feel her story is not credible. Then you factor in the witnesses named don't corroborate her story.

I'll link this as I linked to it a few days ago. It's well documented that anyone who goes through an extreme trauma have fragmented memories. So it's not unusual at all... Was also pointed out during the testimony.


http://time.com/3625414/rape-trauma-brain-memory/

enfant terrible

Itssoeasy wrote: »

What are you celebrating for ? This has shown the US senate on both sides to be a complete disaster. This will make the US more divided then it already was.

Not celebrating it will make no difference to me, congratulating Kavanaugh because in my opinion this was all politics and he won.

The Democrats have no one else to blame but themselves, they have taken the supreme court for granted and its cost them.

The Republicians have prioritized getting control of the supreme court for a long time and now its paying off, they can cement it for a generation if the Ginsburg seat becomes available.

2 Scoops

batgoat wrote: »

I'll link this as I linked to it a few days ago. It's well documented that anyone who goes through an extreme trauma have fragmented memories. So it's not unusual at all... Was also pointed out during the testimony.

http://time.com/3625414/rape-trauma-brain-memory/

Sure, but the witnesses she cited don't corroborate her own story and nobody has come forward to say they drove her to the party or home. It all can't be blamed on a memory black out.

Itssoeasy

enfant terrible wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

What are you celebrating for ? This has shown the US senate on both sides to be a complete disaster. This will make the US more divided then it already was.

Not celebrating it will make no difference to me, congratulating Kavanaugh because in my opinion this was all politics and he won.

The Democrats have no one else to blame but themselves, they have taken the supreme court for granted and its cost them.

The Republicians have prioritized getting control of the supreme court for a long time and now its paying off, they can cement it for a generation if the Ginsburg seat becomes available.

This nomination has shown how badly both sides acted. Of course there was politics because a political body in the form of the US Senate have a big say in how a non political body like the US Supreme court leans at least ideologically.

The democrats did make a balls of it by not winning control of the congress. It underscores the saying that elections have consequences and not just legislatively but in terms of the Supreme Court.

2 Scoops

Itssoeasy wrote: »

And would you accept that the passage of 36 years would hinder broad memories of some of her testimony having had something as terrible as sexual assault(I think we can all agree sexual assault is wrong) ?

Yes to both, but like I said, I have a very hard time believing she doesn't remember who drove her to the party and who drove her home, the first person she would have seen after it happened. It wasn't a short distance, it was at least over 6 miles according to her testimony. Speaking for myself, I've gotten into fights decades ago in blackout states, been knocked out etc but still remember exact details about what happened. I know it's in no way comparable to sexual assault but it's the closest thing I can compare it to if I'm thinking of my own experiences with memory recollection.

EltonJohn69

all this talk of a left wing smear campaign......all you have to do is look at Bret's bizarre testimony.... screaming about beer, crying about calendars , talking about Clinton conspiracies, insulting senators....you can't let that on the Supreme Court... can anyone here genuinely say they would be happy with him being the judge in a court case that determines your freedom ? ......

enfant terrible

Itssoeasy wrote: »

This nomination has shown how badly both sides acted. Of course there was politics because a political body in the form of the US Senate have a big say in how a non political body like the US Supreme court leans at least ideologically.

The democrats did make a balls of it by not winning control of the congress. It underscores the saying that elections have consequences and not just legislatively but in terms of the Supreme Court.

The Democrats are in the very dangerous position as far as the supreme court is concerned.

Ginsburg is 85, Breyer is 80, even Clarence Thomas is 70 and could retire and open a space for a young conservative judge.

aloyisious

It remains to be seen how much the Kavanaugh V Ford row will affect the upcoming elections and how it may energize the female vote to vote in the elections. Looking at the women protesting at the senate building about the way the committee hearings were conducted and the way Senator Grassley and other GOP senators ran it, the win for the GOP may well be severely regretted by them if the women hold true to their protest course and vote in a like manner.

enfant terrible

aloyisious wrote: »

It remains to be seen how much the Kavanaugh V Ford row will affect the upcoming elections and how it may energize the female vote to vote in the elections. Looking at the women protesting at the senate building about the way the committee hearings were conducted and the way Senator Grassley and other GOP senators ran it, the win for the GOP may well be severely regretted by them if the women hold true to their protest course and vote in a like manner.

They are saying the opposite on CNN, that the Democrat vote was already energized because of Trump but the Kavanaugh saga has energized complacent Republicians votes who feel Kavanaugh was mistreated.

2 Scoops

Republicans have gained something like 10 points in voter enthusiasm over the past couple of weeks. The Democrats had well over a double digit lead but now it's cut to two points.

aloyisious

enfant terrible wrote: »

The Democrats are in the very dangerous position as far as the supreme court is concerned.

Ginsburg is 85, Breyer is 80, even Clarence Thomas is 70 and could retire and open a space for a young conservative judge.

That may well be true but if the debacle at the senate causes the women voters protesting at the senate building go on to take out their anger on the GOP at the elections, then it may well be an opportune time for there to be new members on the USSC that will wipe out the win by Judge Kavanaugh, the GOP and Don.

Rhineshark

2 Scoops wrote: »

Yes to both, but like I said, I have a very hard time believing she doesn't remember who drove her to the party and who drove her home, the first person she would have seen after it happened. It wasn't a short distance, it was at least over 6 miles according to her testimony. Speaking for myself, I've gotten into fights decades ago in blackout states, been knocked out etc but still remember exact details about what happened. I know it's in no way comparable to sexual assault but it's the closest thing I can compare it to if I'm thinking of my own experiences with memory recollection.

Regarding someone coming forward - how did you get to the eleventh party of the year when you were 15? Why would the driver remember who he or she gave a lift to on an otherwise unremarkable night?

From my own experience of sexual assault, the memories of it happening are clear and vivid but in clips. Why on earth would I remember how I got from A to B afterwards? I don't remember what I had for dinner either. Why would I? Why would she? The horrifying bits, the bits that encoded memory, was not a car journey, a walk or a rabid fear of carrots.

Itssoeasy

enfant terrible wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

This nomination has shown how badly both sides acted. Of course there was politics because a political body in the form of the US Senate have a big say in how a non political body like the US Supreme court leans at least ideologically.

The democrats did make a balls of it by not winning control of the congress. It underscores the saying that elections have consequences and not just legislatively but in terms of the Supreme Court.

The Democrats are in the very dangerous position as far as the supreme court is concerned.

Ginsburg is 85, Breyer is 80, even Clarence Thomas is 70 and could retire and open a space for a young conservative judge.

Well yes it's a tipping point. The next presidential election along with the mid terms next month and the non presidential elections in 2020 become so important in the US, because let's say justice Ginsburg stays on the court until she's ninety(or until the 2020 election) which I think she's said she would all being right then the party who occupies the White House in January 2021 could swing it even more.

Jolly Red Giant

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

all this talk of a left wing smear campaign......

The daft thing is that they think the Democrats are 'left-wing'

Jolly Red Giant

2 Scoops wrote: »

Yes to both, but like I said, I have a very hard time believing she doesn't remember who drove her to the party and who drove her home, the first person she would have seen after it happened. It wasn't a short distance, it was at least over 6 miles according to her testimony.

If you knew anything about the impact of sexual violence on a victim you would know that it is normal for the victims not to be able to remember details like this. In terms of her memory - Ford's testimony was exactly what you would expect from a victim of sexual violence.

2 Scoops wrote: »

Speaking for myself, I've gotten into fights decades ago in blackout states, been knocked out etc but still remember exact details about what happened. I know it's in no way comparable to sexual assault but it's the closest thing I can compare it to if I'm thinking of my own experiences with memory recollection.

You said it - and until you experience it then you can make diddly squat claims about it.

enfant terrible

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well yes it's a tipping point. The next presidential election along with the mid terms next month and the non presidential elections in 2020 become so important in the US, because let's say justice Ginsburg stays on the court until she's ninety(or until the 2020 election) which I think she's said she would all being right then the party who occupies the White House in January 2021 could swing it even more.

I hope she keeps trucking but she's 85, we could wake up tomorrow to the news Trump has to pick another nominee for the court.

Can you imagine what the Soros groups will be planning for that nominee

aloyisious

enfant terrible wrote: »

They are saying the opposite on CNN, that the Democrat vote was already energized because of Trump but the Kavanaugh saga has energized complacent Republicians votes who feel Kavanaugh was mistreated.

But will the winners feel the need to stay in the fight when they feel like victors, or be complacent in 4 weeks time while the losers will be feeling sore and wanting to settle the score with the senators who chose to believe a man over a woman at the urging of a president who was flipping all over the place in regard to his public evaluations of the Prof "I find her very credible - it was all a con job". It's gone from just being a GOP V Dem issue now, IMO, and a lot of Don's beliefs on how women should be treated and respected will be in peoples minds. A similarity between Don's opinion and Judge Kavanaugh apparently similar M/O of treating women may well affect the outcome. Grabbing a woman by the pussy and pushing her down on a bed for sexual gratification expands beyond locker-room talk and is not the best way to get her vote.

2 Scoops

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The daft thing is that they think the Democrats are 'left-wing'

What are they then?

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/10/05162647/10-05-2017-Political-landscape-release.pdf

everlast75

I love the way those who wanted Kavanaugh through were quiet as mice until the votes were in and they were 100% safe. Hilarious

2 Scoops

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

In terms of her memory - Ford's testimony was exactly what you would expect from a victim of sexual violence.

It's also exactly the type of testimony that I could make up about you. She named 4 witnesses and all failed to corroborate her story, no date, no location. I'm not saying she made it up, I'm saying not everything accusation should be assumed to be true, facts should prevail.

Jolly Red Giant

Itssoeasy wrote: »

This nomination has shown how badly both sides acted. Of course there was politics because a political body in the form of the US Senate have a big say in how a non political body like the US Supreme court leans at least ideologically.

The democrats did make a balls of it by not winning control of the congress. It underscores the saying that elections have consequences and not just legislatively but in terms of the Supreme Court.

The entire political system in the US is utterly dysfunctional.

It is a political system designed 250 years ago to serve the interests of rich, white, slave-owning men. It was modified in the post civil-war era to accommodate the interests of the white Southern slave-owners in an effort to ensure that the interests of the Northern elites were not threatened by ongoing unrest in the Southern states (and remember the Democrats were the party of the Southern slave-owners).

The system as it operates today is divorced from the reality of American society - politics is the plaything of the rich elites - it costs a minimum of $250K to challenge for a city council seat (unless there is the major wind of some mass campaign behind the candidate) - it costs $10million to win a senate seat and it costs $10million just to launch a presidential campaign (with another $10 for each primary - and at least $1billion to run a full presidential campaign).

More and more Americans are by-passing the political system and taking straight to the streets to demand their rights - and this is only going to increase (particularly after the hamfisted way the GOP forced through Kavanaugh's nomination and the misogynist mocking of Ford by Trump). The reason the Democrats are not sweeping the GOP away in the current election is because they have nothing to offer ordinary Americans - and all Trump can do is whip-up the redneck, alt-right, creationist fundamentalists to cheer on his every insult.

A case in point - Heidi Heitkamp Dem senator in North Dakota - who will get tossed out on here ear next month. Heitkamp was elected in 2012 on the back of a promise to oppose the pipeline being proposed passing through ND. The native American population voted en-masse for her and she won the senate seat by just over 2,000 votes. When the battle against the pipeline was being fought at Standing Rock and thousands of people were faced with the police and the national guard in full combat gear Heidi Heitkamp ran for the hills and declared that she supported the pipeline. Obama was forced to cancel the pipeline and Trump whipped up racism against the native Americans two years ago claiming that they were trying to deprive white people of jobs in order to protect their 'holy ground' to win the state. The native American population have now declared en-masse that they will not vote for Heitkamp - and that they will not vote at all because there is no point. The poor white working class who were whipped into a frenzy by Trump now realise that the pipeline is not providing jobs, it is just lining Trump's pockets - and you are going to see a meaningless election between two cheeks of the same a*se fighting over what is loosely called the spoils of office - with the rich and middle class white Americans in the state staring at one another trying to decide which of the idiots to vote for.