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Changes in the GAA - super thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That would be a waste of money. Who do you get to train these referees. How many referees do you train and that wouldnt help the game. You would be far better investing that money into refs at all levels and improving all refereeing and doing more to help refereeing at lower levels as then the refs will have better habits and experiences to help them as they progress to higher levels.


    Exactly, people focus on the senior inter-county game and forget about all of the club games as senior, intermediate and junior level etc. They all need good referees as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,285 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That would be a waste of money. Who do you get to train these referees. How many referees do you train and that wouldnt help the game. You would be far better investing that money into refs at all levels and improving all refereeing and doing more to help refereeing at lower levels as then the refs will have better habits and experiences to help them as they progress to higher levels.

    I agree, consistency is required throughout.
    But I do think if you are going to push players towards the boundaries (if not over in some notable cases) of professionalism, then you have to up the standard and consistency of refereeing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    I agree, consistency is required throughout.
    But I do think if you are going to push players towards the boundaries (if not over in some notable cases) of professionalism, then you have to up the standard and consistency of refereeing.
    The standard of referee's isnt really the issue. Its how they are treated at all levels and the rule book which are far more of a concern IMO. I would look to change them to help improve things first


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,285 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The standard of referee's isnt really the issue. Its how they are treated at all levels and the rule book which are far more of a concern IMO. I would look to change them to help improve things first

    No point having rules if they are implemented differently in Omagh to how they are implemented in Croke Park.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    No point having rules if they are implemented differently in Omagh to how they are implemented in Croke Park.
    is there? Look at other sports. plenty of laws in rugby are treated differently at pro level compared to amatuer.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 67,285 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    is there? Look at other sports. plenty of laws in rugby are treated differently at pro level compared to amatuer.

    and?

    I think it is a bad enough problem at inter county level to have some money spent on it.

    Not really interested in a 'look over there, everything is alright jack' type of debate tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    and?

    I think it is a bad enough problem at inter county level to have some money spent on it.

    Not really interested in a 'look over there, everything is alright jack' type of debate tbh.
    Who is saying everythings alright?


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,285 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who is saying everythings alright?

    I voice a problem I see (not alone in seeing either) and you tell me to look over there at other sports and rugby in support of your earlier point that spending some money attempting to harmonise referring decisions would be 'a waste of money'. :confused::confused::confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 dollar bill


    Good idea about referee's maybe a full court press on the issue where all refs at all levels are improved,Remember Inter County Refs are Club refs also..A proper respect campaign and maybe a dual approach with the GPA to encourage ex-players to take up the whistle


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    I'd like to see something like VAR brought in for goals/penalties and sending offs.
    While Hawk-Eye has been a success, dodgy goals and sending offs have much more impact on the course of a game
    e.g. Waterford v Tipp this year.
    Aylwards goal v Galway
    and I am sure there are plenty of others.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Good idea about referee's maybe a full court press on the issue where all refs at all levels are improved,Remember Inter County Refs are Club refs also..A proper respect campaign and maybe a dual approach with the GPA to encourage ex-players to take up the whistle
    Getting ex players would be good but isnt be all end all some see it as.
    After referees do the initial course to become a referee what other training do they get?
    In rugby referees have monthly meetings to discuss laws/issues in the game that will have arisen. Looking at video clips of incidentas
    What would you see as a proper respect campaign?
    robbiezero wrote: »
    I'd like to see something like VAR brought in for goals/penalties and sending offs.
    While Hawk-Eye has been a success, dodgy goals and sending offs have much more impact on the course of a game
    e.g. Waterford v Tipp this year.
    Aylwards goal v Galway
    and I am sure there are plenty of others.
    I dont see VAR being needed. Fixing/changing the rule book would be far more beneficial in relation to number of reds than any video ref


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 dollar bill


    I think football is at a cross roads..Hurling is so popular because the speed the ball can travel up and down the field,Can any rule be brought in to speed up football?

    Only allowed 4 passes until you are in opposition 45? Backcourt rule?


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Let's make a football that can be kicked 80 yards down the field.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭Prop Joe


    Getting ex players would be good but isnt be all end all some see it as.

    What would you see as a proper respect campaign?

    Ex Players i think would help the respect issue as they would be respected more as individuals

    I would also like the following implemented

    1.Referee's to issue cards for abuse of officials and be very strict on it

    2.Clubs to be fined for any player or management who are booked/Sent off for abusing officials

    3.Sunday Game could also have a referee to explain decisions
    After referees do the initial course to become a referee what other training do they get?
    In rugby referees have monthly meetings to discuss laws/issues in the game that will have arisen. Looking at video clips of incidentas

    To my knowledge all ref's on the intercounty panel for championship have regular meetings to review performance


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 15,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    Prop Joe wrote: »
    Ex Players i think would help the respect issue as they would be respected more as individuals

    I would also like the following implemented

    1.Referee's to issue cards for abuse of officials and be very strict on it

    2.Clubs to be fined for any player or management who are booked/Sent off for abusing officials

    3.Sunday Game could also have a referee to explain decisions

    I really like that one - I know one of the rugby shows on BT does it and has a referee in to explain things. Would help a lot of the misunderstanding by people in the stands as well as for players.

    Interesting line from an article written by Brian Galvin regarding umpires

    "Umpires haven’t been brought in by Croke Park for coaching or advice and that is a mystery when it’s been a tough summer for them, especially in hurling"

    Waterford-Tipp game on the 8th of July - umpire waved the ball as a point, Hawkeye over-ruled, with many comment's being made about umpires who are friends or acquaintances of the referee. In this case it was actually a referee who made the incorrect decision.

    I do think the GAA need to provide specific training - I've umpired quite a few games, including some county finals, and while it is easier to see a football, a sliotar is harder to see, especially when there is little room behind the goalposts to be able to position yourself to be able to see it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Prop Joe wrote: »
    Ex Players i think would help the respect issue as they would be respected more as individuals

    I would also like the following implemented

    1.Referee's to issue cards for abuse of officials and be very strict on it

    2.Clubs to be fined for any player or management who are booked/Sent off for abusing officials

    3.Sunday Game could also have a referee to explain decisions
    I dont think ex players would help the respect issue. They hmay have been respected when they played but that goes out window with many who do ref.
    I think any ref abuse needs to be sanctioned but you need to adapt the rule book to really help referees. Many rules should be changed/got rid of to really improve the game.
    Sunday Game doesnt really need a ref on to explain decisions. Only on the days when there was game changing/altering decisions made.
    To my knowledge all ref's on the intercounty panel for championship have regular meetings to review performance
    It needs to be all refs at all levels meeting monthly(or more regularly) to discuss rules and incidents that occured in their games and review video clips on issues that they need to work on.
    I really like that one - I know one of the rugby shows on BT does it and has a referee in to explain things. Would help a lot of the misunderstanding by people in the stands as well as for players.

    Interesting line from an article written by Brian Galvin regarding umpires

    "Umpires haven’t been brought in by Croke Park for coaching or advice and that is a mystery when it’s been a tough summer for them, especially in hurling"

    Waterford-Tipp game on the 8th of July - umpire waved the ball as a point, Hawkeye over-ruled, with many comment's being made about umpires who are friends or acquaintances of the referee. In this case it was actually a referee who made the incorrect decision.

    I do think the GAA need to provide specific training - I've umpired quite a few games, including some county finals, and while it is easier to see a football, a sliotar is harder to see, especially when there is little room behind the goalposts to be able to position yourself to be able to see it.
    Yeah Rugby Tonight has a referee explaining the odd decision but the pundits in rugby are far better/rational at discussing referees first.
    I would concentrate on whatever training all officials get. It needs to start at the lowest levels to improve referees in the long term not look for improvements straight away. There is ref recruitment officers and administers in each county but surely there needs to be development officers who are former/current top level refs and can teach refs about game management, rules of game etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,285 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I dont think ex players would help the respect issue. They hmay have been respected when they played but that goes out window with many who do ref.
    I think any ref abuse needs to be sanctioned but you need to adapt the rule book to really help referees. Many rules should be changed/got rid of to really improve the game.
    Sunday Game doesnt really need a ref on to explain decisions. Only on the days when there was game changing/altering decisions made.

    It needs to be all refs at all levels meeting monthly(or more regularly) to discuss rules and incidents that occured in their games and review video clips on issues that they need to work on.

    Yeah Rugby Tonight has a referee explaining the odd decision but the pundits in rugby are far better/rational at discussing referees first.
    I would concentrate on whatever training all officials get. It needs to start at the lowest levels to improve referees in the long term not look for improvements straight away. There is ref recruitment officers and administers in each county but surely there needs to be development officers who are former/current top level refs and can teach refs about game management, rules of game etc.

    Respect for the ref and his decisions is drilled into rugby players from juvenile age. It clearly pays dividends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Respect for the ref and his decisions is drilled into rugby players from juvenile age. It clearly pays dividends.
    You dont need to tell me that. I ref rugby.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭sheroman01


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Let's make a football that can be kicked 80 yards down the field.

    Y'know, that is an interesting point, whether you were being serious or not! Would be very very interesting to see the impact of a slightly lighter ball.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Getting ex players would be good but isnt be all end all some see it as.
    After referees do the initial course to become a referee what other training do they get?
    In rugby referees have monthly meetings to discuss laws/issues in the game that will have arisen. Looking at video clips of incidentas
    What would you see as a proper respect campaign?

    I dont see VAR being needed. Fixing/changing the rule book would be far more beneficial in relation to number of reds than any video ref

    For some incidents maybe, for other off the ball incidents maybe not. But something is certainly needed to check out dodgy goals.
    Waterford were knocked out of the championship this year on a dodgy goal. Galway could have lost the Leinster final on a dodgy goal.
    Liam Rushes goal v KK could have seen them beaten that day.
    There are lots of these every year having much more influence on games than any point caught by Hawk-Eye.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    sheroman01 wrote: »
    Y'know, that is an interesting point, whether you were being serious or not! Would be very very interesting to see the impact of a slightly lighter ball.

    If you made it easier to score long range points it would also be harder to implement a blanket defence - win win really


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭Prop Joe


    OK lets see how we could trouble shoot these four simple rule changes

    1) Implement a "halfway" line

    2)" A player receiving a backwards pass may not be in his own half when collecting the ball "

    3) " A maximum of three passes either by foot or hand allowed in your own half of the field"

    4) " For the ball to travel over the "halfway" line it must be kicked

    These simple changes would result in a more expansive games,Would speed the game up,Would increase kick passing ten fold and would be easily implemented at all levels


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    If you made it easier to score long range points it would also be harder to implement a blanket defence - win win really

    A lighter ball would also be more erratic, especially with a wind, so might make some teams even less likely to kick rather than hand pass!


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Prop Joe wrote: »
    OK lets see how we could trouble shoot these four simple rule changes

    1) Implement a "halfway" line

    2)" A player receiving a backwards pass may not be in his own half when collecting the ball "

    3) " A maximum of three passes either by foot or hand allowed in your own half of the field"

    4) " For the ball to travel over the "halfway" line it must be kicked

    These simple changes would result in a more expansive games,Would speed the game up,Would increase kick passing ten fold and would be easily implemented at all levels

    Except that they are not simple, they would be extremely complicated for a referee.

    Apart from that they address the wrong problem. The problem isn't the handpassing in their own half, the problem is the blanket defence. The changes you propose will make it much easier to implement a blanket defence and much more profitable to do so. The end result will be even lower-scoring games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    A lighter ball would also be more erratic, especially with a wind, so might make some teams even less likely to kick rather than hand pass!

    I thought so too, ever watch one of those light plastic balls go back over your head when messing around in the wind?


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,285 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    A lighter ball would also be more erratic, especially with a wind, so might make some teams even less likely to kick rather than hand pass!

    I don't think the poster was talking about a cheap kiddy ball. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I thought so too, ever watch one of those light plastic balls go back over your head when messing around in the wind?

    Cillian would be fcuked!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭Prop Joe


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Except that they are not simple, they would be extremely complicated for a referee.

    Apart from that they address the wrong problem. The problem isn't the handpassing in their own half, the problem is the blanket defence. The changes you propose will make it much easier to implement a blanket defence and much more profitable to do so. The end result will be even lower-scoring games.


    Sorry i'm not sure how you come to this conclusion ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    I don't think the poster was talking about a cheap kiddy ball. :D


    A lighter ball is a lighter ball and thus less easy to control and more susceptible to wind and other factors. You don't need to be Issac Newton to know this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I don't think the poster was talking about a cheap kiddy ball. :D


    If you were ever at one of the Beann Eadair pitches on the top of Howth Head on a wet and windy November, you would definitely have doubts about kicking a ball forward that would end up flying behind you.


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