So Michael D IS running again!

Goldengirl

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alaimacerc

Goldengirl wrote: »

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Was that by any chance another Newsnight appearance? (Maybe they have her block-booked for a bulk discount!)

alaimacerc

Post-mortem on the debate on Morning Ireland a few moments ago. Correspondent was rather (too?) kind about the moderator's performance, he of course being late of their parish...

Hurrache

alaimacerc wrote: »

"Cosy consensus of the establishment parties." Should be in the standing politics drinking game.

What's the price of entry to the "establishment"? Third-biggest party in the state not qualify?

My local SF councillor is using the line of Na Riadh being a candidate going against the establishment. I pointed out exactly as you said, they're the 3rd biggest dail party, as well as being a government party in the north, if it ever sat again, they're as establishment as Higgins, he didn't seem to take it onboard.

FrancieBrady

Hurrache wrote: »

My local SF councillor is using the line of Na Riadh being a candidate going against the establishment. I pointed out exactly as you said, they're the 3rd biggest dail party, as well as being a government party in the north, if it ever sat again, they're as establishment as Higgins, he didn't seem to take it onboard.

Bit of a stretch there Hurrache. When the two main parties practically merge in order to stop them have any power that isn't diluted by coalition, (as we have seen the main parties do to 'junior' parties.)
SF seem to have presented both parties with very real dilemmas as they continue to knock on the gates and FG and FF don't like it one bit.
TBH Higgins always struck me as a better fit for SF than the modern Labour party.

FrancieBrady

alaimacerc wrote: »

Post-mortem on the debate on Morning Ireland a few moments ago. Correspondent was rather (too?) kind about the moderator's performance, he of course being late of their parish...

I do hope somebody makes a gif of his face when he was asked about Mandela. She genuinely knocked him back with that one and I have rarely seen Kenny so befuddled. His 'IRA coming back' was another.

realdanbreen

batgoat wrote: »

A pretty good friend of mine who previously worked with Pavee Point told me earlier than Michael D has done loads work Pavee Point over the years. So I would say he very much so gives a damn.

A 'pretty good friend said...' is all fine and dandy but it doesn't answer my question, how many travellers are employed in the Arus?

Hurrache

realdanbreen wrote: »

A 'pretty good friend said...' is all fine and dandy but it doesn't answer my question, how many travellers are employed in the Arus?

Why does there even need to be one in order for Higgins to disagree with what Casey said?

FrancieBrady

Another strong and competent performance from Ni Riada on Morning Ireland.
Didn't know anything about her before the campaign but she is very assured I have to say.

realdanbreen

batgoat wrote: »

I have an issue with basically labeling an entire community and negatively affecting their lives as a result. By your logic, if you're a traveller, you're born a criminal, you don't think that these attitudes contribute to the high rate of suicides in the community? In addition to that, your views on Direct Provision is an opposition to refugees in general, you don't care that this state has further added to their suffering via direct provision.

So I basically prefer to live in a decent society that is going to label you from birth and isn't going to abandon those in need. Something our current president would agree with. Peter Casey will not win an election, Michael looks likely to win it by a large margin.

TBH I'm a bit sick of hearing people being 'outraged' at Caseys remarks about travellers. The bottom line is that feeling outraged and defending travellers in the media is the easy bit, how about hiring them in your business, welcoming them to live next door, allowing them have a wedding in your hotel or have a party in your bar? It just doesn't happen so IMO Casey was right to get a debate going.

realdanbreen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another strong and competent performance from Ni Riada on Morning Ireland.
Didn't know anything about her before the campaign but she is very assured I have to say.

, ' Didn't know anything about her before the campaign', What? She never called in to you guys there in Parnell Square?

FrancieBrady

realdanbreen wrote: »

TBH I'm a bit sick of hearing people being 'outraged' at Caseys remarks about travellers. The bottom line is that feeling outraged and defending travellers in the media is the easy bit, how about hiring them in your business, welcoming them to live next door, allowing them have a wedding in your hotel or have a party in your bar? It just doesn't happen so IMO Casey was right to get a debate going.

But they do 'have weddings', they do live beside people and they do work, maybe not so much in settled businesses, but the majority do work at making a living. People do employ them to carry out certain jobs and there are certainly issues there, but again, 'work' would run out for them if they were not completing jobs to satisfaction. They clearly are.

Eric Cartman

Goldengirl wrote: »

Sounds good in theory, but then you'd never see or hear those kids again, or maybe in 10 years and they would have Iringlishy accents. The whole point about the ethnic grouping is to encourage more cooperation, otherwise you are writing off whole communities for the foreseeable future. I get that a few posting here think that's maybe a good thing, but if ye think there are problems now, what sort of issues are being created for the next generation ? If nothing is done to support some of these communities now , when there is so much evidence of increasing social and health problems , why would you expect law abiding citizens coming out of that deprivation?

Caseys argument was literally over them being given 1.7 million of housing , and thats just one family . Theres not 'nothing' being done to support them, never has been 'nothing' .

Look at Margaret Cash on 52k a year of welfare payments who cokpletely skipped the housing list to get an apartment in dublin , who complained even more to get free travel passes for her and her kids to bring them to school on the luas, then sure took them out of school to go on a homeless protest.

Then thees john connors who is given free reign to defend criminality, theres an irish times article where its him having a go at the gardai and government for executing a dawn raid on a halting site , saying it was scary for kids etc... defending them all saying no wrong was done, then in the last paragraph we get down to business where it says the gardai recovered multiple firearms and executed 2 warrants,

With Pavee Point having a direct line to media outlets, they have media access constamtly, are the first to throw the discrimination card out and kick up when they feel slightly offended at all , but usually when you look at it , the things they get offended by are usually interfering in their criminality , like when the government wanted a scrap metal registry to stop stolen scrap being sold.

Everyones always been on about travellers rights, benefits for travellers, ignoring that they have all the rights and more benefits than anyone here, Peter Casey was merely talking about their responsibilities, which is a refreshing change.

alaimacerc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I do hope somebody makes a gif of his face when he was asked about Mandela. She genuinely knocked him back with that one and I have rarely seen Kenny so befuddled. His 'IRA coming back' was another.

He should stick to posing the questions. He's no great shakes at that -- contrary to his own notions of himself -- but he's pretty terrible at dealing with them. Very weird watching the gears whirring, trying to come back on that one, and not even coming up with the obvious "I'm hear to ask the questions, luv, not answer 'em."

alaimacerc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bit of a stretch there Hurrache. When the two main parties practically merge in order to stop them have any power that isn't diluted by coalition, (as we have seen the main parties do to 'junior' parties.)
SF seem to have presented both parties with very real dilemmas as they continue to knock on the gates and FG and FF don't like it one bit.

"Practically" is the thing being stretch here. Past breaking point. A C&S agreement is two whole categories away from a merger. Arguably three categories, as the FF/FG nonsense is more of a lack-of-no-confidence-and-non-supply arrangement. (Compare with the DUP's for a more "classic" one. They have to vote for stuff to get their bung.)

Anyway, none of this remotely speaks to the point, and some of it wanders off into unparseable dead-ends. SF can't ever be an establishment party because that's a Bad Thing. FB thinks SF are a Good Thing. QED. It's a bit of empty rhetoric, it'll get retired eventually. Presumably no later than when SF bums end up warming ministerial chairs.

TBH Higgins always struck me as a better fit for SF than the modern Labour party.

You'd have to ask Higgins about that. Or the Higgins of seven years ago, as he's no longer party-affiliated. Sounds like complete nonsense to me, but unsurprising in the light of your usual "SF is the repository of all things good, true, and wholesome" pronouncements.

FrancieBrady

alaimacerc wrote: »

"Practically" is the thing being stretch here. Past breaking point. A C&S agreement is two whole categories away from a merger. Arguably three categories, as the FF/FG nonsense is more of a lack-of-no-confidence-and-non-supply arrangement. (Compare with the DUP's for a more "classic" one. They have to vote for stuff to get their bung.)

Anyway, none of this remotely speaks to the point, and some of it wanders off into unparseable dead-ends. SF can't ever be an establishment party because that's a Bad Thing. FB thinks SF are a Good Thing. QED. It's a bit of empty rhetoric, it'll get retired eventually. Presumably no later than when SF bums end up warming ministerial chairs.

Well, some would say that FF should have gone into a coalition with FG if they were so willing to assist in stable government because that would be inherently much more stable and FG should have insisted on it, if they too were genuinely about stable government.
What we got was a cobbled together C/S deal which neatly stops SF being the official opposition, another step up the rung to power.
I don't think, and never have, that SF have all the answers and I don't think they are subject to any less bull**** and politicking than other parties. But carry on depicting me as a 'shinner' if it helps you, we know where that scare tactic comes from in Irish politics.

You'd have to ask Higgins about that. Or the Higgins of seven years ago, as he's no longer party-affiliated. Sounds like complete nonsense to me, but unsurprising in the light of your usual "SF is the repository of all things good, true, and wholesome" pronouncements.

It comes from listening to him actually, I mean, when you pare it all down, is there a huge difference to his position and Liadh's. I can't see much tbh.

Hurrache

I think the media have misjudged, and continue to do so, on how to report what Casey said. Even this morning one of the contributors to Sean O'Rourke said that it was racist and she feels they shouldn't even be discussing it. They misjudged how a lot of people would side with him, and by continuing to demonise him they only further widen the chasm and play into Casey's hands.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

MrMusician18 wrote: »

They are looking for solutions, but solutions are hard to come by if no one in authority acknowledges the issues for fear of being called a racist.

I personally know of a few people who will be backing Casey now (not me btw) on the back of his remarks. They understand he hasn't any solutions but they tell me that he is at least acknowledging the ridiculousness in the way the state has indulged this group and is being honest in the way he is calling it out. They agree with Casey that the other candidates were not being honest when they said they wouldn't mind having a halting sure beside their house.

I agree with this. The travelling community have a right to have their culture respected, but they must in turn respect the rest of the population and abide by the laws we all have to abide by. But it's impossible to get a proper discussion going if Pavee Point, the media etc don't recognise the problems caused by a significant number of travellers who are tarnishing the image of the travelling community and causing understandable resentment amongst members of the wider society.

Respect is a two way street, and being a member of the travelling community should not give you a cloak of protection from any criticism or any obligations to society.

FrancieBrady

Quentin Purple Bellboy wrote: »

I agree with this. The travelling community have a right to have their culture respected, but they must in turn respect the rest of the population and abide by the laws we all have to abide by. But it's impossible to get a proper discussion going if Pavee Point, the media etc don't recognise the problems caused by a significant number of travellers who are tarnishing the image of the travelling community and causing understandable resentment amongst members of the wider society.

Respect a two way street, and being a member of the travelling community should not give you a cloak of protection from any criticism or any obligations to society.

When the only interaction the media have with Pavee Point is to get them to 'defend' something then there is going to be a negative opinion among the ill-informed as to what Pavee Point actually do.
All I can do is point to the facts in the round to bring a bit of balance to the discussion or narrative.
https://www.paveepoint.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Strategic-Plan-2021_NOV17.pdf
https://www.paveepoint.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/30YearsofPaveePoint.pdf

And by the way, the Presidential campaign is not about and should not become a campaign about a single issue.

Adamcp898

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Does he even know where a duck's knees are ?

The visible joint is the ankle. Most bird's knees are hidden higher up.

You wouldn't be kicking that high against something with skull the size of a horse and a sharp shearing beak

IT CAN FLY!!

What is it with this man and choosing opponents he can't possibly beat?

jm08

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

She has a media background in RTE. Among other things, she used to present Ear to the Ground. She is also the first female Agric. Science graduate of UCD (she was in the same class as a cousin).

AGC

realdanbreen wrote: »

A 'pretty good friend said...' is all fine and dandy but it doesn't answer my question, how many travellers are employed in the Arus?

Apologies if I am jumping in and have missed something earlier but what difference does it make if there are travellers employed in the civil service or not?

alaimacerc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, some would say that FF should have gone into a coalition with FG if they were so willing to assist in stable government because that would be inherently much more stable and FG should have insisted on it, if they too were genuinely about stable government.
What we got was a cobbled together C/S deal which neatly stops SF being the official opposition, another step up the rung to power.

Indeed, and it's fairly farcical, but it's a long way way from merger, all the same. We've people on the "opposition" dictating the budget, but not actually voting for it, while we have people "in government" sounding more like the opposition at times, but then voting for it.

I don't think, and never have, that SF have all the answers and I don't think they are subject to any less bull**** and politicking than other parties. But carry on depicting me as a 'shinner' if it helps you, we know where that scare tactic comes from in Irish politics.

... almost everybody but the people reading straight off the SF script? (Honestly can't quite decode this particular cryptic barb, but I have a feeling I might have just been called a FGer, a FFer, or worst of all, an Indo reader. Please specify so I can particularise my hurt feels.)

It comes from listening to him actually, I mean, when you pare it all down, is there a huge difference to his position and Liadh's. I can't see much tbh.

For purposes of this election? Very little. Riada is a tad more party-political, but that's more of a function of her party ties being gaffa'd over very recently, whereas Higgins' have been gently buffed off over the past seven years. While he swanned around the place being all presidential and stuff (but getting the occasional dig in one the sly anyway).

That they're both cultural-sphere Gaelgoirs, and both from the west (as against the two Dubs and the two Borderers) enhances the resemblance a little.

AGC

realdanbreen wrote: »

TBH I'm a bit sick of hearing people being 'outraged' at Caseys remarks about travellers. The bottom line is that feeling outraged and defending travellers in the media is the easy bit, how about hiring them in your business, welcoming them to live next door, allowing them have a wedding in your hotel or have a party in your bar? It just doesn't happen so IMO Casey was right to get a debate going.

Travellers have been invited to the Aras serveal times to events such as garden parties during President Higgins presidency as far as I know, it doesn’t take much googling to find that out.

Adamcp898

alaimacerc wrote: »

"Cosy consensus of the establishment parties." Should be in the standing politics drinking game.

It cheapens the use of alliteration every time Liadh condemns the "cosy consensus" and commits to chide and criticise the current cabinet, given the opportunity. Cheapens it.

Still, beats the usual unity and extension of hands all around from SF candidates I suppose.

alaimacerc

Adamcp898 wrote: »

IT CAN FLY!!

What is it with this man and choosing opponents he can't possibly beat?

Sadly no. From da link: "The Dromornithidae, an extinct family of large ground birds endemic to Australia." (My emph.)

Think more "giant quacky emu" -- if you dare!

Eric Cartman

AGC wrote: »

Apologies if I am jumping in and have missed something earlier but what difference does it make if there are travellers employed in the civil service or not?

Well the government want us to all integrate them into our society, should lead by example.

Adamcp898

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes he did.

Sean is coming across as the love child of Terry Prone and a robot.

He has clearly been taking heavy duty public speaking, decorum classes. And he is failing the exam!

Poor Peter will have to work hard to top that soundbite now!

No harm in the lessons either, it's not something that generally comes natural to anyone and can be of great use.

But one can say too much, or completely the wrong thing, with body language too. Thought he kept pulling this facial expression of "challenging skepticism" as his intonation changed.....................during his own opening statement about why he should be president.

Adamcp898

alaimacerc wrote: »

Sadly no. From da link: "The Dromornithidae, an extinct family of large ground birds endemic to Australia." (My emph.)

Think more "giant quacky emu" -- if you dare!

Ah I thought the poster was just using it as a reference mark for this possible size of our horse-sized waterfowl, which I believe could fly, and beat all before it to claim the Aras, and the zoo, as it's rightful perch.

Jameswhalley

Enjoyed the debate last nite ,I think Casey is priceless either way .

It will be comical if MDH did indeed object to a halting site.Could Casey conceivably have known this before his controversial remarks .

MDH caught out as a spoofer last nite, claiming he still has work to do.