UFC 226: Miocic v Cormier & Holloway vs Ortega

EagererBeaver

Inviere wrote: »

As scripted as it was, once the fights are actual fights, you can't even mention UFC and WWE in the same sentence imo.

DC was pure class, what a win.

That's the kind of thing that gets thrown around because it's "real fighting" vs "play fighting" but is patently untrue. Of course you can, and should, mention them together because MMA and professional wrestling have a very closely linked history and MMA promotion comes straight from the Vince McMahon playbook.

Subcomandante Marcos

Holloway via KO/TKO

Mellor

Paully D wrote: »

So the UFC are trying to claim that Brock has been in the testing pool but his activity has been “hidden.”

Aye, good one lads.

If he fails a test it’ll be buried until after that event anyway, same as last time.

Shambles.

He said he signed last week. Afaik only test history is public, notbthe current pool. If USADA hasn't tested him in the last week, he wouldn't show up in lists yet. There's nothing odd there. I hardly think they are lying to scrape a week off his suspension.

The promo stuff was cringe, but I'd be very skeptical that the UFC had the ability to bury results. USADA aren't random employees that the UFC can order about. Unlike say RUSADA

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Doesn't he have to serve a year ban ones he comes out of retirement and then have him tested for that year too? I didn't think Dana had any power over USADA

6 months left afaik. Give or take a week or two.

The Nal

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

A quick Google tells you he retired around 4 weeks after being banned .?

Says 6 months here

https://www.mmafighting.com/2018/7/8/17545460/usada-confirms-brock-lesnar-has-begun-process-to-get-back-in-drug-testing-pool

Dana said he doesnt know where Brock is with the process.

Ultimate Seduction

Stipe via Submission

I'd like to know how mark hunt feels about it all

Mellor

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

A quick Google tells you he retired around 4 weeks after being banned .?

Google says retired in Feb '17. He ban was from UFC 200 in July '16.

Ultimate Seduction

Stipe via Submission

Mellor wrote: »

Google says retired in Feb '17. He ban was from UFC 200 in July '16.

He wasn't given the ban in July 16 though, so it must have been back dated? Everywhere I check, he was banned in late December and retired in Feb 17

EagererBeaver

Mellor wrote: »

He said he signed last week. Afaik only test history is public, notbthe current pool. If USADA hasn't tested him in the last week, he wouldn't show up in lists yet. There's nothing odd there. I hardly think they are lying to scrape a week off his suspension.

The promo stuff was cringe, but I'd be very skeptical that the UFC had the ability to bury results. USADA aren't random employees that the UFC can order about. Unlike say RUSADA


6 months left afaik. Give or take a week or two.

USADA has a history of being bent and twisted by wealthy and powerful figures. Mayweather and his retroactive TUEs for example. With McGregor on the shelf, the UFC needs this fight to happen. No way in hell will anything USADA related stop it happening.

The Nal

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

He wasn't given the ban in July 16 though, so it must have been back dated? Everywhere I check, he was banned in late December and retired in Feb 17

Yeah its back dated from when they took it, not when they were officially caught,

riffmongous

Holloway via KO/TKO

Absolutely delighted! Always been a fan since he came from more or less nowhere to beat Silva way back, the guy has a great attitude and skills

Paully D

Ortega via KO/TKO

So happy for Cormier by the way.

The stuff that man has had to deal with throughout his life, I can only imagine. He carries himself the right way, is never in any trouble, and has only ever lost to a scumbag drug cheat.

The most underrated and underappreciated fighter of all time IMO.

EagererBeaver

Am I the only one that actually enjoyed the nonsense with Lesnar? Cringey as **** and certainly Brock at least had to learn his lines but I thought it was fun!

Plenty of material for the promos for the inevitable matchup. Think we'll be seeing a lot of that clip of Brock punching the camera in the months to come.

Inviere

Holloway via Decision

EagererBeaver wrote: »

That's the kind of thing that gets thrown around because it's "real fighting" vs "play fighting" but is patently untrue. Of course you can, and should, mention them together because MMA and professional wrestling have a very closely linked history and MMA promotion comes straight from the Vince McMahon playbook.

I'd differentiate Professional Wrestling from the travelling stage show that is WWE. Cormier isn't a double champ because wresting isn't real fighting, of course it is. WWE however, is nothing but pure, scripted, theatrics from start to finish. It isn't fighting.

EagererBeaver

Inviere wrote: »

I'd differentiate Professional Wrestling from the travelling stage show that is WWE. Cormier isn't a double champ because wresting isn't real fighting, of course it is. WWE however, is nothing but pure, scripted, theatrics from start to finish. It isn't fighting.

Nobody claims it is, but that has nothing to do with "they shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence". Nobody claims that they're comparable forms of combat given that one of them isn't even a form of combat.

Just look at the stuff in the octagon at the end of the night - scripted theatrics. Perfectly fair to draw comparisons where they exist.

ricero

Ortega via Decision

Paully D wrote: »

So happy for Cormier by the way.

The stuff that man has had to deal with throughout his life, I can only imagine. He carries himself the right way, is never in any trouble, and has only ever lost to a scumbag drug cheat.

The most underrated and underappreciated fighter of all time IMO.

Its great to see. A year ago he was in the ring concussed, broken and crying after losing to a serial cheater like Jones.

Today he has cemented his legacy as one of if not the goat and took Jones superfight against Lesnar. Karma at its finest for DC.

DC looks way more powerful as a heavyweight.

Inviere

Holloway via Decision

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Nobody claims it is, but that has nothing to do with "they shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence". Nobody claims that they're comparable forms of combat given that one of them isn't even a form of combat.

Just look at the stuff in the octagon at the end of the night - scripted theatrics. Perfectly fair to draw comparisons where they exist.

Comparing WWE and MMA is like comparing a game of FIFA 2017 and playing in the World Cup....one is real, the other, isn't (obviously the WWE guys & gals are athletic strong people, I'm of course referring to the fighting not being real). Why would you compare a non combat stage show with mixed martial arts?

Yes the stuff at the end of the Cormier Miocic fight was pretty clearly scripted. The fight certainly won't be, which is the point I was originally making. I can live with that.

Paully D

Ortega via KO/TKO

DC’s only a -145 favourite against Brock. I’m surprised at that, I thought he’d be a much heavier favourite.

Can’t see him being anywhere near that come fight night.

Brock is +115.

EagererBeaver

Inviere wrote: »

The fight certainly won't be, which is the point I was originally making. I can live with that.

But nobody has ever claimed otherwise. When people bring WWE/professional wrestling into it they're talking about the pantomime and theatrics side of things, not fighting

Ultimate Seduction

Stipe via Submission

Paully D wrote: »

DC’s only a -145 favourite against Brock. I’m surprised at that, I thought he’d be a much heavier favourite.

Can’t see him being anywhere near that come fight night.

Brock is +115.

What's that in fractions? Can't find betting odds on it.

Inviere

Holloway via Decision

EagererBeaver wrote: »

But nobody has ever claimed otherwise.

I was commenting on the likes of this post:

pappyodaniel wrote: »

That was pathetic. Final nail in the coffin for the ufc. I'm done.

Some people absolutely hate fake scripted stuff, because it belongs in the realms of WWE etc. Most of us grew out of WWE (WWF for me!) as kids, once we learned it's all acting, jumping, fake punches, etc. My point was that I can live with the scripted things like Lesnar pushing DC etc, provided that when the time comes, the fight is real. That's the big draw, a real fight. Without it, there's very little left imo.

pauldoo

Paully D wrote: »

So happy for Cormier by the way.

The stuff that man has had to deal with throughout his life, I can only imagine. He carries himself the right way, is never in any trouble, and has only ever lost to a scumbag drug cheat.

The most underrated and underappreciated fighter of all time IMO.

Couldn't agree more. Before last night he never seemed to be in the GOAT talk, but what he's done is incredible. To make a perferct career, I would love to see him beat Jones

pauldoo

Can you watch the full event replay on the BT website?

Ultimate Seduction

Stipe via Submission

pauldoo wrote: »

Can you watch the full event replay on the BT website?

Not shur but it's on tonight at 9pm.

Mellor

EagererBeaver wrote: »

USADA has a history of being bent and twisted by wealthy and powerful figures. Mayweather and his retroactive TUEs for example. With McGregor on the shelf, the UFC needs this fight to happen. No way in hell will anything USADA related stop it happening.

The Mayweather "TUE" was for an IV. Which wasn't even banned by NSAC at the time. IIRC he alerted USADA before he took it as they were contracted forvtesting. Medical use of IVs is permitted under WADA rules. So I don't see the big deal. Certainly nowhere near comparable with steroid use, and whatever other cocktail ingredients Lesnar popped for.

Whats are you actual implication supposed to be? That Mayweather paid off USADA. That fight was big enough, and Mayweather certainly rich enough. But If that were the case, why would they write a TUE, alert NSAC and make the situation public. Wouldnt they just look th other way?


Any other examples of USADA being twisted?
Lance Armstrong wasn't able to shake them off :pac:
Didn't they refuse an NDA with Nike during an investigation into the Oregon project. If ever there a company to afford a brown envelope.

murphyebass

The Brock promo reminds Vince why he doesn’t let Brock do his own promos.

I was fully expecting Paul Heyman to jump out from somewhere and take Brocks mic.

Terrible stuff. Will sell fights though.

Ultimate Seduction

Stipe via Submission

I don't understand how an adult enjoys the bull**** promos and all that nonsense. How can you get excited by 2 men pretend they have beef when in all likelihood there kissing eachothers asses back stage

murphyebass

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I don't understand how an adult enjoys the bull**** promos and all that nonsense. How can you get excited by 2 men pretend they have beef when in all likelihood there kissing eachothers asses back stage

Ah to be fair it’s just a bit of craic isn’t it?

You can completely ignore it if you want and just watch the fight.

Where there is genuine beef though it does add to the whole thing and it’s fairly easy to spot genuine beef with even a bit knowledge of the fighters involved and their past etc

EagererBeaver

Mellor wrote: »

The Mayweather "TUE" was for an IV. Which wasn't even banned by NSAC at the time. IIRC he alerted USADA before he took it as they were contracted forvtesting. Medical use of IVs is permitted under WADA rules. So I don't see the big deal. Certainly nowhere near comparable with steroid use, and whatever other cocktail ingredients Lesnar popped for.

Whats are you actual implication supposed to be? That Mayweather paid off USADA. That fight was big enough, and Mayweather certainly rich enough. But If that were the case, why would they write a TUE, alert NSAC and make the situation public. Wouldnt they just look th other way?


Any other examples of USADA being twisted?
Lance Armstrong wasn't able to shake them off :pac:
Didn't they refuse an NDA with Nike during an investigation into the Oregon project. If ever there a company to afford a brown envelope.

I don't get why you've put TUE in inverted commas. A TUE is a TUE like. It's irrelevant what it was for, or whether or not the NSAC had banned it or not - it was banned by the contract for the fight, Mayweather was given a TUE three weeks after the event and Pacquiao was refused one to enable him to get a shot for his shoulder. Bob Bennett himself wrote to USADA and described its actions as unacceptable.

It's also widely accepted that Mayweather failed tests on three occasions and was immediately given a waiver, which negated the need to test his B sample.

Cyborg was inexplicably let off the hook after a positive test. She was granted a TUE for medication she didn't declare until after the test.

Lesnar himself was inexplicably given a waiver for the waiting period to allow him to fight Hunt

USADA's UFC policy is worded significantly differently than for other athletes around the application process for retroactive TUEs.

The implication is pretty clear - when USADA is contracted privately (it's Congressionally mandated for Olympic sports) the rules can be changed/bent/twisted/modified, as they have on numerous occasions, all of them involving big stars.

The DC-Lesnar fight is going to happen whatever USADA gets up to.

Paully D

Ortega via KO/TKO

https://twitter.com/iainkidd/status/1015817693998575616?s=21

Couldn’t agree more.

SureYWouldntYa

I thought after the fight the talk would be how the knockout wouldn't have happened without the eyepokes from DC

Fair play to the man for not using it as an excuse because there was a break in action for an eyepoke not long before, shows the kind of person Stipe is