Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

Elmer Blooker

Aegir wrote: »

Two Russian men in what, their mid thirties, decide to travel to London for a weekend and the only thing they want to see is Salisbury Cathedral, 150 km away.

sounds legit.

Don't forget that they did a bit of window shopping ("what will we bring back for Vlad, Boris?"):pac: before they put the novijoke on the Skripal doorknob ... or was it Zizzi's restaurant? ... maybe it was the pub? ... it could have been Mr Skripal's BMW? .. there was something about an industrial estate wasn't there? ... of course there was the park bench too!
It was also disclosed that there was traces of the "deadly" novichok in that cheap looking east London hotel .... six months later! Have other residents who stayed at the hotel at the same time as these two men been traced so that they can get medical treatment after being exposed to a ........ "deadly" agent?

how long before one of the usual suspects chimes in to support what putin said?

I'm not just supporting what Putin said, this was a hoax from DAY ONE.

Billy86

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how long before one of the usual suspects chimes in to support what putin said?

Turns out it was literally two minutes.

Elmer Blooker

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I'm not just supporting what Putin said, this was a hoax from DAY ONE.

like when thousands of military aged private Russian civilians decided to paint a load of lorries green, put on combat fatigues and go on vacation to Ukraine?

That kind of hoax?

gandalf

seamus wrote: »

At this point Putin, is literally pointing and laughing at the UK. He's not even trying to be clever about it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0913/993495-russia-skripal-case/

The two lads were just tourists at the wrong place and time apparently.

- They fly into the UK.
- They stay in a ****ty hotel.
- They take a day trip to Salisbury (this would be like taking the Luas to Tallaght to see the sights).
- Twice.
- The second time they happen to be right outside the Skripal's house
- After which, they go straight to the airport and leave
- They happened to stay in the only hotel room in the UK where traces of Novichok were found.

Incredible set of coincidences.

What a joke.

Its pathetic. Do they really expect people to believe two lads flew four hours from Moscow to London on a Friday and all they wanted to do was visit Salisbury? And then they flew back to Moscow Sunday morning?

Putin is trolling the British now.

Sal Butamol

It's not nearly as pathetic as the "Carry On" story concocted by the Brits.

robinph

They need to put in a complaint to their cathedral spire spotting guide book. Salisbury cathedral isn't famous. I'm from not a major distance away and wouldn't have been confident on guessing if it even had a cathedral.

robinph

robinph wrote: »

They need to put in a complaint to their cathedral spire spotting guide book. Salisbury cathedral isn't famous. I'm from not a major distance away and wouldn't have been confident on guessing if it even had a cathedral.

Really? I've heard it as an answer on loads of quizzes, tallest spire I believe.

xckjoo

gandalf wrote: »

Its pathetic. Do they really expect people to believe two lads flew four hours from Moscow to London on a Friday and all they wanted to do was visit Salisbury? And then they flew back to Moscow Sunday morning?

Putin is trolling the British now.

They don't expect everyone to believe it, just enough so they can leverage the doubt. That's why the "troll army" portion of the work is so important and effective. If it was just Putin making a statement, only a tiny percentage of people would believe him, but add in the paid shills and bots that swamp social media platforms to spread doubt and suddenly the perception is that it's a widely held opinion and is in fact the "real truth" (people love thinking they see a truth where others don't). It's quite ingenious and a real problem.

Billy86

Aegir wrote: »

like when thousands of military aged private Russian civilians decided to paint a load of lorries green, put on combat fatigues and go on vacation to Ukraine?

That kind of hoax?

Elmer is already on record as saying he doesn't care if what he reads is Russian propaganda because he wants to believe it, so it's really not worth your time to be honest.

robinph

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? I've heard it as an answer on loads of quizzes, tallest spire I believe.

But that only makes it famous amongst spire nerds, and if that is what they really were they would have gone to Lincoln to see the worlds tallest building (until 15 something) or St Davids for the smallest city with a cathedral or St Pauls in London because it's ...well in London.

Anyway we are at least all in agreement that they are talking rubbish. Can we get Google to check where the Salisbury tourist board website was run through their translate app from over the last couple of days?

Elmer Blooker

robinph wrote: »

They need to put in a complaint to their cathedral spire spotting guide book. Salisbury cathedral isn't famous. I'm from not a major distance away and wouldn't have been confident on guessing if it even had a cathedral.

Seems like a major tourist attraction to me.

Salisbury Cathedral and its surrounding Close attract some 500,000 visitors each year. Many come as tourists, to worship or to attend concerts, workshops and art installations. There is nearly 800 years of history to explore, including Britain’s tallest spire, the best preserved of only four surviving 1215 Magna Carta documents and the world’s oldest working mechanical clock.

Turns out it was literally two minutes.

Wrong. I called this Austin Powers farce a hoax SIX MONTHS ago.

Billy86 post:
1. I said I like off-guardian.org and that hasn't changed.
2. If you think I'm going to read that rant you are mistaken.
3. I NEVER said I "don't care if what I read is Russian propaganda" - stop making up stuff, you can do better than that!

Dohnjoe

xckjoo wrote: »

They don't expect everyone to believe it, just enough so they can leverage the doubt.

Yup, it's about putting out anything that can muddy the waters and give people any reason to question all information

It's extremely effective in countries like Russia where information and media are heavily controlled/influenced

Cheerful Spring

Aegir wrote: »

Two Russian men in what, their mid thirties, decide to travel to London for a weekend and the only thing they want to see is Salisbury Cathedral, 150 km away.

sounds legit.

My gut is telling me that tourist explanation is bull****. You can never judge someone by looks alone but they don't look like your typical tourist. I think we need to see what kind of VISA they travelled to the UK with.

Billy86

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Billy86 post:
1. I said I like off-guardian.org and that hasn't changed.
2. If you think I'm going to read that rant you are mistaken.
3. I NEVER said I "don't care if what I read is Russian propaganda" - stop making up stuff, you can do better than that!

I showed you beyond doubt that OffGuardian was Russian propaganda, you didn't dispute it because you simply couldn't such is how obvious it is. And so, predictably as the day is long, and as you have shown here again, you just rammed your fingers in your ears and declared you like it anyway lalalalalalalala not listening lalalalalalala. It's as simple as that. This is why you can't be taken serious on matters involving Russia other than to fall under a good example of a troll (I don't think you are one to be honest) or a "useful idiot" as the term goes.

Dohnjoe

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Wrong. I called this Austin Powers farce a hoax SIX MONTHS ago.

It's your own personal belief not supported by anything credible. A belief that coincides exactly with your fringe world views (not the facts). There are people who believe the world is flat, that the moon landings are a hoax.

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Seems like a major tourist attraction to me.

Exactly the sort of place that 2 russian men of military age would go to for the weekend.

robinph

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Seems like a major tourist attraction to me.

Half a million people a year is nothing, and that is probably counting the same few people who turn up every Sunday every time as well. Here is the top 50 tourist attractions, and there are three other cathedrals/ abbeys in there with 1 million + visitors each year:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uks-top-50-visitor-attractions-7509660

To show what a nonsense those kinds of numbers are though you'll notice that at number 11 is Birmingham Library?!?! It is an odd looking building admittedly, but those 2 million people are not flying 8 hours over from Moscow to come and see it on a day trip they are not even buying an "I 'heart' Birmingham Library" tshirt or soft toy.

suicide_circus

could they not have chosen a couple of agents that didn't look quite so stereotypically assassinish?

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Exactly the sort of place that 2 russian men of military age would go to for the weekend.

They're not civilians visiting the UK sites I not buying that for a second. Putin could be protecting them because they are Russian gangsters or rogue agents. The Russian state will still look after them if it was a rogue operation carried out. Putin ordered this is what stupidity to carry out a chemical attack on UK soil.

robinph

robinph wrote: »

Half a million people a year is nothing, and that is probably counting the same few people who turn up every Sunday every time as well. Here is the top 50 tourist attractions, and there are three other cathedrals/ abbeys in there with 1 million + visitors each year:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uks-top-50-visitor-attractions-7509660

To show what a nonsense those kinds of numbers are though you'll notice that at number 11 is Birmingham Library?!?! It is an odd looking building admittedly, but those 2 million people are not flying 8 hours over from Moscow to come and see it on a day trip they are not even buying an "I 'heart' Birmingham Library" tshirt or soft toy.

maybe they were heading to stonehenge and got lost, or the "Slush" put them off. I doubt two Russians would be able to cope with a bit of snow.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They're not civilians visiting the UK sites I not buying that for a second. Putin could be protecting them because they are Russian gangsters or rogue agents. The Russian state will still look after them if it was a rogue operation carried out. Putin ordered this is what stupidity to carry out a chemical attack on UK soil.

I cant make head nor tail of that last sentence at all.

Cheerful Spring

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Don't forget that they did a bit of window shopping ("what will we bring back for Vlad, Boris?"):pac: before they put the novijoke on the Skripal doorknob ... or was it Zizzi's restaurant? ... maybe it was the pub? ... it could have been Mr Skripal's BMW? .. there was something about an industrial estate wasn't there? ... of course there was the park bench too!
It was also disclosed that there was traces of the "deadly" novichok in that cheap looking east London hotel .... six months later! Have other residents who stayed at the hotel at the same time as these two men been traced so that they can get medical treatment after being exposed to a ........ "deadly" agent?




I'm not just supporting what Putin said, this was a hoax from DAY ONE.

There still lot of discrepancies with the story, but that these guys are civilians my gut just says no that's not true.

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I cant make head nor tail of that last sentence at all.

Carrying out a chemical attack on UK soil can invoke the Nato article 5 and start WW3. Putin to have done that he risked war.

super_furry

I should be surprised that there are people here defending the Russian side of the story here and buying into it, but sadly I’m not.

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Carrying out a chemical attack on UK soil can invoke the Nato article 5 and start WW3. Putin to have done that he risked war.

so could invading Ukraine

Grayson

super_furry wrote: »

I should be surprised that there are people here defending the Russian side of the story here and buying into it, but sadly I’m not.

they were the same people saying that russia wasn't involved in east ukraine, they didn't invade crimea and they certainly didn't shoot down a passenger jet.

Edit: there were some I thought might be russian bots/trolls for a while. I don't think they are now but they are weirdly supportive of moscow

robinph

Aegir wrote: »

so could invading Ukraine

Ukraine isn't in Nato so no risk there.

robinph

robinph wrote: »

Ukraine isn't in Nato so no risk there.

Russia broke the Budapest Agreement though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

xckjoo

Aegir wrote: »

so could invading Ukraine

I thought that was just a bunch of lads who bought some Russian uniforms in the military surplus stores

ohnonotgmail

xckjoo wrote: »

I thought that was just a bunch of lads who bought some Russian uniforms in the military surplus stores

Its amazing what you can buy in the russian version of Army Bargains. Missile launchers and everything.