Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

seamus

2smiggy wrote: »

They were very quick to blame Russia for the attacks, so I presume they would have started looking at Russian passports coming in and out of the UK, starting with London Airports.

Looking for what, and why just London airports? Why just Russians (they had fake passports, they didn't have to be Russian)?

Even think about that as a task. "Get me the name and an airport photo of everyone who landed in from Russia or left an English airport to Russia from 14 days before to 48 hours after the Skripal's death".

Now what? There are 11 flights arriving in from Moscow to Heathrow *today*. Extrapolate out to every airport in a 200km radius of London over 10 days. How many passengers is that? Let's say conservatively that's 10,000 people.

Then you need to try and whittle them down. You can't really, they're all randomers, unknown to the authorities.

Right, so get the photos, and start trying to trace the movements of each passenger out of the terminal and onto public transport. Oh crap, that guy got in a taxi, where did that go? That guy got into a private car, ****.

You really seem to be operating from an assumption that the UK already knew these two guys did it and spent the last six months looking for proof it was them.

xckjoo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The timestamp is interesting how likely they were walking through the same space down to the second? Seems a big fail on whoever uploaded these images?

These could be two different walkthroughs, have to know where this in the airport?

Are you're implying that they went to all the trouble of creating fake images of these guys but are simultaneously too incompetent to remember to change the large timestamp that takes up a big part of the image? Images that they then released with the knowledge that they'd be seen by millions of people around the world?

Hoboo

xckjoo wrote: »

Are you're implying that they went to all the trouble of creating fake images of these guys but are simultaneously too incompetent to remember to change the large timestamp that takes up a big part of the image? Images that they then released with the knowledge that they'd be seen by millions of people around the world?

Well the 'Murcans' littered ground zero with passports and documention of hijackers that were still alive and well in their home towns. Just because they're secret service doesn't make them our brightest or best.

ohnonotgmail

xckjoo wrote: »

Are you're implying that they went to all the trouble of creating fake images of these guys but are simultaneously too incompetent to remember to change the large timestamp that takes up a big part of the image? Images that they then released with the knowledge that they'd be seen by millions of people around the world?

well lets be honest it is much more logical than the alternative of the two guys being russian operatives who went to the home town of a russian double agent and tried to murder him and his daughter. Cheerful Springs critical thinking skills have the world beat yet again.

seamus

xckjoo wrote: »

Are you're implying that they went to all the trouble of creating fake images of these guys but are simultaneously too incompetent to remember to change the large timestamp that takes up a big part of the image? Images that they then released with the knowledge that they'd be seen by millions of people around the world?

To be fair, it does look a little suspect. But it was clarified that the images are taken from two different tunnels after the customs check. Before arrivals, crowds are split up into narrow tunnels; presumably there's some level of anti-terrorism and/or crowd control logic to this.

So as the two guys approached the tunnels, they went down different tunnels. Given that every tunnel is identical in layout, then it would make sense that they passed the camera(s) at the same second.

arcticthistle

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The timestamp is interesting how likely they were walking through the same space down to the second? Seems a big fail on whoever uploaded these images?

These could be two different walkthroughs, have to know where this in the airport?

So either Russians can move at the speed of light OR they walked from the same flight through 2 different walkthroughs at exactly the same time to the second OR
the pictures were doctored. Those are the only 3 explanations I can think of though there could be others.

seamus

arcticthistle wrote: »

they walked from the same flight through 2 different walkthroughs at exactly the same time to the second

Bingo.

Look at page 3 here:
https://www.gatwickairport.com/globalassets/documents/maps/gatwick_north_nov17.pdf

You can see as you come out into international arrivals, it splits into two channels. Why? Who knows.

Billy86

seamus wrote: »

Bingo.

Look at page 3 here:
https://www.gatwickairport.com/globalassets/documents/maps/gatwick_north_nov17.pdf

You can see as you come out into international arrivals, it splits into two channels. Why? Who knows.

Which also explains why the two photos are from slightly different angles - look at the top left corner and the view of the hand rail in the bottom right. If that were the same entrance way the angles would be identical.

Elmer Blooker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well lets be honest it is much more logical than the alternative of the two guys being russian operatives who went to the home town of a russian double agent and tried to murder him and his daughter. Cheerful Springs critical thinking skills have the world beat yet again.

An ex British has been agent who bought a house in his own name and intended to live out his days retired in Salisbury ....... seems like he was no 1 on the Kremlin's hit list eh?
Wheres the evidence that these two guys brought the novi-joke to Salisbury?
I presume it is highly likely that they almost certainly probably did ........ all according to sources of course.

xckjoo

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

An ex British has been agent who bought a house in his own name and intended to live out his days retired in Salisbury ....... seems like he was no 1 on the Kremlin's hit list eh?
Wheres the evidence that these two guys brought the novi-joke to Salisbury?
I presume it is highly likely that they almost certainly probably did ........ all according to sources of course.

<goalposts shifted>

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

An ex British has been agent who bought a house in his own name and intended to live out his days retired in Salisbury ....... seems like he was no 1 on the Kremlin's hit list eh?
Wheres the evidence that these two guys brought the novi-joke to Salisbury?
I presume it is highly likely that they almost certainly probably did ........ all according to sources of course.

you mean an ex double agent. And putin has vowed death for all traitors to russia. It is really simple if you actually think about it.

mcmoustache

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you mean an ex double agent. And putin has vowed death for all traitors to russia. It is really simple if you actually think about it.

He was quite clear about it.

Putin wrote:

“Traitors will kick the bucket, believe me. Those other folks betrayed their friends, their brother in arms,” Mr Putin said.

“Whatever they got in exchange for it, those 30 pieces of silver they were given, they will choke on them.”

As you said, it's incredibly simple.

Putin threatens traitors. Traitors get killed by two Russians. Russia denies instead of handing over the two Russians.

Cheerful Spring

xckjoo wrote: »

Are you're implying that they went to all the trouble of creating fake images of these guys but are simultaneously too incompetent to remember to change the large timestamp that takes up a big part of the image? Images that they then released with the knowledge that they'd be seen by millions of people around the world?

The two guys were recorded at the exact same time in the same location. Even their position in the doorway is identical. That's odd.

That walkthrough is narrow only one person can fit in the space. The design choice is odd would the walkthrough not be bigger spaced to allow more people to walk? Could be an exclusive business class exit? Do we not need to get an accurate fix where exactly this area is in the airport? Are there any images online of this area we looking at?

seamus

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The two guys were recorded at the exact same time in the same location. Even their position in the doorway is identical. That's odd.

That walkthrough is narrow only one person can fit in the space. The design choice is odd would the walkthrough not be bigger spaced to allow more people to walk? Could be an exclusive business class exit? Do we not need to get an accurate fix where exactly this area is in the airport? Are there any images online of this area we looking at?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108018761&postcount=158

xckjoo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The two guys were recorded at the exact same time in the same location. Even their position in the doorway is identical. That's odd.

That walkthrough is narrow only one person can fit in the space. The design choice is odd would the walkthrough not be bigger spaced to allow more people to walk? Could be an exclusive business class exit? Do we not need to get an accurate fix where exactly this area is in the airport? Are there any images online of this area we looking at?

Have you never been in an airport before? Are the straws your grasping at hurting your hands?


And just in case you try to ignore it, see Seamus post(s) for the unsurprising explanation.

Billy86

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

An ex British has been agent who bought a house in his own name and intended to live out his days retired in Salisbury ....... seems like he was no 1 on the Kremlin's hit list eh?
Wheres the evidence that these two guys brought the novi-joke to Salisbury?
I presume it is highly likely that they almost certainly probably did ........ all according to sources of course.

Says the guy who previously said he quite literally did not care that one of his more trusted sources was completely full of propaganda and lies, because it tells him what he wants to hear.

Cheerful Spring

seamus wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108018761&postcount=158

I have had not a lot of time to look into this. But from the images, I just looked at they are two exits to the North Terminal and South terminal when you come off international flights. I can't find images yet for what we see posted but I keeping looking.

Billy86

seamus wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108018761&postcount=158

It's almost worth bookmarking this post just to have the lin on hand for the sheer number of times the same few posters will try to keep pushing it despite it already big covered.

xckjoo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I have had not a lot of time to look into this. But from the images, I just looked at they are two exits to the North Terminal and South terminal when you come off international flights. I can't find images yet for what we see posted but I keeping looking.

Good luck with that search. They generally frown on people taking photos of airports and their security areas and posting them online.

Dohnjoe

arcticthistle wrote: »

Facts are needed and facts that are provable. If that is too "so yesterday" for you then you might want to stop discussing anything, specifically if you think "highly likely" means SLAM DUNK

Nope, this is the nonsense I am referring to. There has been no court case yet, so they have to use the phrase "highly likely". There are two men with enough evidence to take them to court, they will never see court or trial (will be protected by Russia) so it is unlikely to happen

Another aspect to the "highly likely" phrase is that it's next to impossible to prove if these men were ordered by to do so by the Kremlin. Another level of impossibility would be to prove that Putin did it. Putin can literally have people murdered in other countries with nerve agents, calling cards, sloppy work, pointing directly to Russia (as intended) and there is almost zero chance of it ever coming back to him because there are so many layers and buffers between him and the final culprits

Likewise the same thing happened with Litvinenko, the evidence was damning, they literally left a trail of radioactive Polonium behind them, but the suspects couldn't be taken to court because they were protected by.. Russia.

Likewise MH17 was shot down, the evidence in the subsequent investigations was overwhelming, the people involved could not be held to account, why? they are protected by .. Russia

arcticthistle

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nope, this is the nonsense I am referring to. There has been no court case yet, so they have to use the phrase "highly likely". There are two men with enough evidence to take them to court, they will never see court or trial (will be protected by Russia) so it is unlikely to happen

Another aspect to the "highly likely" phrase is that it's next to impossible to prove if these men were ordered by to do so by the Kremlin. Another level of impossibility would be to prove that Putin did it. Putin can literally have people murdered in other countries with nerve agents, calling cards, sloppy work, pointing directly to Russia (as intended) and there is almost zero chance of it ever coming back to him because there are so many layers and buffers between him and the final culprits

Likewise the same thing happened with Litvinenko, the evidence was damning, they literally left a trail of radioactive Polonium behind them, but the suspects couldn't be taken to court because they were protected by.. Russia.

Likewise MH17 was shot down, the evidence in the subsequent investigations was overwhelming, the people involved could not be held to account, why? they are protected by .. Russia

There has been no court case so there has been no establishment of guilt, right?
Yet punishment has been dished out wholesale in the form of sanctions and diplomatic expulsions.

You seem to have a rigid respect for the integrity of jurisprudence in some situations and a 'couldn't-give-a-toss' approach in other circumstances

xckjoo

arcticthistle wrote: »

There has been no court case so there has been no establishment of guilt, right?
Yet punishment has been dished out wholesale in the form of sanctions and diplomatic expulsions.

You seem to have a rigid respect for the integrity of jurisprudence in some situations and a 'couldn't-give-a-toss' approach in other circumstances

Britain are free to take whatever diplomatic decisions the feel are prudent with Russia (or anywhere else) at any given time. That's not the same thing as finding individual people guilty of a crime in a court of law.

Dohnjoe

arcticthistle wrote: »

There has been no court case so there has been no establishment of guilt, right?
Yet punishment has been dished out wholesale in the form of sanctions and diplomatic expulsions.

They can't take it to court.

So instead they use political action and pressure to deal with cases like this where the guilt of another nation is "highly likely". It's also made more complex by the fact that they can't make public the private intelligence (the Kremlin knows this)

It's also not an isolated case, it's happened before. And it's just another small part of a wider scale of information and hybrid warfare conducted by Moscow. Each case acting as a consensus towards it's broader doctrine. Foreign nations affected by this type of warfare can and will take action. In this case it was many nations.

Discodog

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They can't take it to court.

So instead they use political action and pressure to deal with cases like this where the guilt of another nation is "highly likely". It's also made more complex by the fact that they can't make public the private intelligence (the Kremlin knows this)

It's also not an isolated case, it's happened before. And it's just another small part of a wider scale of information and hybrid warfare conducted by Moscow. Each case acting as a consensus towards it's broader doctrine. Foreign nations affected by this type of warfare can and will take action. In this case it was many nations.

They can take it to Court & the Litvenyenko murderer if Putin hands them over but he won't especially Lugavoy who now runs one of Putins favourite restaurants.

Discodog

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I have had not a lot of time to look into this. But from the images, I just looked at they are two exits to the North Terminal and South terminal when you come off international flights. I can't find images yet for what we see posted but I keeping looking.

There used to be comment here about your "motives". Strangely whenever the Kremlin spout another lie, you copy it almost word for word.

Dohnjoe

Discodog wrote: »

They can take it to Court & the Litvenyenko murderer if Putin hands them over but he won't especially Lugavoy who now runs one of Putins favourite restaurants.

Indeed but Putin will never hand them over - hence it will never go to court

Apart from a few token outlets, most of the media are heavily influenced, controlled and subjugated. The opposition are non-existent, powerless, under house arrest or murdered. The internal and domestic intelligence and security services are directly under Putin's control, as are the judiciary. The Duma simply rubberstamp everything from Putin's party

The only real threat to this autocracy are ex-spies and insiders

Want to reveal inside info about Putin and the Kremlin? don't be surprised to be murdered or poisoned on foreign soil with an exotic "calling card". It's the ultimate deterrent.

seamus

At this point Putin, is literally pointing and laughing at the UK. He's not even trying to be clever about it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0913/993495-russia-skripal-case/

The two lads were just tourists at the wrong place and time apparently.

- They fly into the UK.
- They stay in a ****ty hotel.
- They take a day trip to Salisbury (this would be like taking the Luas to Tallaght to see the sights).
- Twice.
- The second time they happen to be right outside the Skripal's house
- After which, they go straight to the airport and leave
- They happened to stay in the only hotel room in the UK where traces of Novichok were found.

Incredible set of coincidences.

What a joke.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

At this point Putin, is literally pointing and laughing at the UK. He's not even trying to be clever about it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0913/993495-russia-skripal-case/

The two lads were just tourists at the wrong place and time apparently.

- They fly into the UK.
- They stay in a ****ty hotel.
- They take a day trip to Salisbury (this would be like taking the Luas to Tallaght to see the sights).
- Twice.
- The second time they happen to be right outside the Skripal's house
- After which, they go straight to the airport and leave
- They happened to stay in the only hotel room in the UK where traces of Novichok were found.

Incredible set of coincidences.

What a joke.

Two Russian men in what, their mid thirties, decide to travel to London for a weekend and the only thing they want to see is Salisbury Cathedral, 150 km away.

sounds legit.

mcmoustache

seamus wrote: »

What a joke.

It's what they do. They want the world to know that they did it while at the same time they want to deny it. It's little more than trolling on the world stage.

ohnonotgmail

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's what they do. They want the world to know that they did it while at the same time they want to deny it. It's little more than trolling on the world stage.

how long before one of the usual suspects chimes in to support what putin said?