Ireland Under 20 2019 6 Nations and World Championships

Chico Flores

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Clontarf are one of the 20s clubs that do attract more of the youths players then some others especially guys like Kelly, Lennox who will have come up through neighbouring clubs like Suttonians, Skerries

I am not having a go off Clontarf here, it is more they have the resources to attract these players too.

I know for a fact that there are players getting a few euro (no more than other clubs I am sure) and they can attract the Conor Kellys of this world too

Mucky_Tackies

Could be a looong night in Cork friday night. Starting with 2 7s and seriously lacking in 2nd row beef-wise. Afraid our pack will be bullied. Outside backs looks troubling too, we'll miss that lad from Ulster out wide. 2 Connacht lads in starting pack must be a first for us?

That English team is ridiculously stacked. Hopefully catching them cold on the first night out but if both teams play to best ability, could still be a hiding.

The Lost Sheep

Chico Flores wrote: »

I am not having a go off Clontarf here, it is more they have the resources to attract these players too.

I know for a fact that there are players getting a few euro (no more than other clubs I am sure) and they can attract the Conor Kellys of this world too

Possibly but huge part is they are one of the only clubs in top tier of 20s that isnt in Dublin 2/4/6 so it isnt them giving money....

Mucky_Tackies wrote: »

Could be a looong night in Cork friday night. Starting with 2 7s and seriously lacking in 2nd row beef-wise. Afraid our pack will be bullied. Outside backs looks troubling too, we'll miss that lad from Ulster out wide. 3 Connacht lads in starting pack must be a first for us?

That English team is ridiculously stacked. Hopefully catching them cold on the first night out but if both teams play to best ability, could still be a hiding.

Our pack is often bullied at 20s for reasons said many times before. Their pro earlier. They generally get players playing pro more earlier because of more teams. Starting 2 sevens and lacking real bulk/beef in second row suggests tryng to combat english bulk.

Mucky_Tackies

This Eng pack isnt just their regular mix made up of lads whove turned pro. Theyve got lads this time around excelling at P'ship senior level like Kpoko, lads playing HC and even lads whove been called into senior training camps and even capped at intl senior like Hill. This, on paper, looks a ****ing monstrous pack by any measure, past and present.

Am hopeful but not expectant.

English Lurker

Mucky_Tackies wrote: »

This Eng pack isnt just their regular mix made up of lads whove turned pro. Theyve got lads this time around excelling at P'ship senior level like Kpoko, lads playing HC and even lads whove been called into senior training camps and even capped at intl senior like Hill. This, on paper, looks a ****ing monstrous pack by any measure, past and present.

Am hopeful but not expectant.

I believe this is officially the most pro-experienced team the England U20s have ever put out.

The Lost Sheep

15. Jake Flannery (Shannon RFC/Munster) Kilfeacle and Rockwell
14. Conor Phillips (Young Munster RFC/Munster) Comp
13. Liam Turner (Dublin University FC/Leinster) Blackrock
12. David Hawkshaw (Clontarf FC/Leinster) Captain Belvedere
11. Jonathan Wren (Cork Constitution FC/Munster) PBC
10. Harry Byrne (Lansdowne FC/Leinster) Michaels
9. Craig Casey (Shannon RFC/Munster) Ard Scoil Ris

1. Josh Wycherley (Young Munster RFC/Munster) Bantry Bay and Cistercian Roscrea
2. Dylan Tierney-Martin (Corinthians RFC/Connacht)* Corinthians
3. Thomas Clarkson (Dublin University FC/Leinster) Blackrock
4. Charlie Ryan (UCD RFC/Leinster)* Blackrock
5. Niall Murray (Buccaneers RFC/Connacht) Buccaneers
6. Martin Moloney (Old Belvedere RFC/Leinster) Athy
7. Scott Penny (UCD RFC/Leinster) Michaels
8. John Hodnett (UCC RFC/Munster) Clonakilty
Replacements:
16. John McKee (Old Belvedere RFC/Leinster) Campbell
17. Michael Milne (UCD RFC/Leinster) Birr and Cistercian Roscrea
18. Ryan Lomas (Galwegians RFC/Connacht) Galwegians and Cistercian Roscrea
19. Brian Deeny (Clontarf FC/Leinster) Wexford Wanderers
20. David McCann (Banbridge RFC/Ulster) RBAI
21. Cormac Foley (St.Mary’s College RFC/Leinster) gerards
22. Sean French (Cork Constitution FC/Munster) PBC
23. Rob Russell (Dublin University FC/Munster) Michaels

Squidgy Black

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Clontarf are one of the 20s clubs that do attract more of the youths players then some others especially guys like Kelly, Lennox who will have come up through neighbouring clubs like Suttonians, Skerries

I know I'm slightly biased in this matter, but one of the aspects as well about our U20s that tends to attract players is it isn't tied into a school/university like Belvedere/Terenure/Blackrock etc as well as the ties to local clubs.

I know Lansdowne are the same also but with more competition from other southside clubs.

Stainalert

Mucky_Tackies wrote: »

Could be a looong night in Cork friday night. Starting with 2 7s and seriously lacking in 2nd row beef-wise. Afraid our pack will be bullied. Outside backs looks troubling too, we'll miss that lad from Ulster out wide. 2 Connacht lads in starting pack must be a first for us?

That English team is ridiculously stacked. Hopefully catching them cold on the first night out but if both teams play to best ability, could still be a hiding.

Understand your reservations but I do think the Irish Mgmt need to try to do something different. If we try to out muscle England we'll fail so think it is a good idea to go with 2 sevens.

The Lost Sheep

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I know I'm slightly biased in this matter, but one of the aspects as well about our U20s that tends to attract players is it isn't tied into a school/university like Belvedere/Terenure/Blackrock etc as well as the ties to local clubs.

I know Lansdowne are the same also but with more competition from other southside clubs.

could certainly be a factor. Universities and the old boy clubs will attract more of the schools players.

Thoughts on team for Friday?

Mucky_Tackies

Stainalert wrote: »

Understand your reservations but I do think the Irish Mgmt need to try to do something different. If we try to out muscle England we'll fail so think it is a good idea to go with 2 sevens.

Get that perspective and would be more understandable if we had some carriers then in the 2nd row to make up for lack of 6 and a relatively small 8 (who has also played at hooker). However, our 2nd rowers are very light too and not massive carriers. Not sure where the metres are going to come from.

Might be a policy of keeping ball alive and putting width on everything.

Mucky_Tackies

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

2. Dylan Tierney-Martin (Corinthians RFC/Connacht)* Corinthians
4. Charlie Ryan (UCD RFC/Leinster)* Blackrock

What does the asterisk beside their names denote?

ClanofLams

Mucky_Tackies wrote: »

What does the asterisk beside their names denote?

Previously capped, I think, though surprised there's not a couple more.

kingofthekong

jesus this could get ugly, only players I reckon are up to the challenge physically in the pack are Penny and Milne, why is Milne on the bench?? --- Hope the irish boys relish the opportunity of having a go at some of the hottest prospects in England -- this as a player wouldve motivated the **** out of me.... Really need to attack them and give them no respect

kingofthekong

I agree with picking two sevens theres no point in trying to beat them up in a carrying collision battle - the only chance ireland have is to make the breakdowns a dogfight and muck up Englands quick ball

thomond2006

1 Ulster player in the 23, is there anyone from Ulster that would be selected but for injury?

ClanofLams

McKee, the sub hooker is Ulster too. They wanted him to move to prop, he didn’t want to hence joining Leinster.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

1 Ulster player in the 23, is there anyone from Ulster that would be selected but for injury?

McKee is from Ulster. Moved to Dublin as didnt want to change position which Ulster wanted

These would be/are the Ulster players who would have been in around squad:
Azur Allison, Stewart Moore, Callum Reid, John McKee, Clayton Milligan

Paul Smeenus

thomond2006 wrote: »

1 Ulster player in the 23, is there anyone from Ulster that would be selected but for injury?

Stewart Moore (centre), Angus Kernohan (wing), Azur Allison (number 8/backrow; although he may actually be fit). Moore and Allison are very highly rated, Kernohan has 12 senior caps already.

stephen_n

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Stewart Moore (centre), Angus Kernohan (wing), Azur Allison (number 8/backrow; although he may actually be fit). Moore and Allison are very highly rated, Kernohan has 12 senior caps already.

is Kernohan injured or did Ulster hold him back as he will be with their seniors?

D14Rugby

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I know I'm slightly biased in this matter, but one of the aspects as well about our U20s that tends to attract players is it isn't tied into a school/university like Belvedere/Terenure/Blackrock etc as well as the ties to local clubs.

I know Lansdowne are the same also but with more competition from other southside clubs.

Maybe the not being tied to a school helps but Blackrock and Belvedere are really only tied to the school in name.

The constant need for well paid bar staff is also a big attraction.

jacothelad

ClanofLams wrote: »

McKee, the sub hooker is Ulster too. They wanted him to move to prop, he didn’t want to hence joining Leinster.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

McKee is from Ulster. Moved to Dublin as didnt want to change position which Ulster wanted

These would be/are the Ulster players who would have been in around squad:
Azur Allison, Stewart Moore, Callum Reid, John McKee, Clayton Milligan

McKee played at prop but he wanted to play hooker. It was his choice, nothing to do with Ulster refusing his wishes. Perhaps being in theory behind Best, Herring, Andrew, McBurney etc influenced his choice.

Paul Smeenus

stephen_n wrote: »

is Kernohan injured or did Ulster hold him back as he will be with their seniors?

Injured, although he may have been retained anyway.

Think McKee would have had - at that point - Zack McCall and Allen Clarke's lad ahead of him at hooker as well, and we had no idea O'Sullivan and O'Toole would be handy at their ages, so allowing him to swap would have been madness.

kingofthekong

Is the game tonight televised?

Paul Smeenus

kingofthekong wrote: »

Is the game tonight televised?

RTE 2, 19:00

kingofthekong

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

RTE 2, 19:00

cheers

scrummieman

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Injured, although he may have been retained anyway.

Think McKee would have had - at that point - Zack McCall and Allen Clarke's lad ahead of him at hooker as well, and we had no idea O'Sullivan and O'Toole would be handy at their ages, so allowing him to swap would have been madness.

allowing him to swap? it's his career, you don't allow him to do anything. He is obviously a quality hooker and he was right to think his long term position was there. Fair play to him for not being bullied into playing a position he didn't want to.

Also Alex Clarke was already out of the ulster setup and McKee is a much higher rated player than he. McKee was ulster and ireland schools captain, ffs.

scrummieman

Ireland will do well to keep it within 20 tonight, pack is very light.

dunno how sean french isn't starting.

Paul Smeenus

scrummieman wrote: »

allowing him to swap? it's his career, you don't allow him to do anything. He is obviously a quality hooker and he was right to think his long term position was there. Fair play to him for not being bullied into playing a position he didn't want to.

Also Alex Clarke was already out of the ulster setup and McKee is a much higher rated player than he. McKee was ulster and ireland schools captain, ffs.

Easy tiger. Let's let him get a single solitary senior cap before we decide it's the worst mistake ever made in sport.

And of course he's welcome to swap to whatever position he wants. Just as Ulster are welcome to decide their money is better spent on another acadmey player playing in a position where they have much greater need.

Are you his da?

Squidgy Black

scrummieman wrote: »

allowing him to swap? it's his career, you don't allow him to do anything. He is obviously a quality hooker and he was right to think his long term position was there. Fair play to him for not being bullied into playing a position he didn't want to.

Also Alex Clarke was already out of the ulster setup and McKee is a much higher rated player than he. McKee was ulster and ireland schools captain, ffs.

He wasn't 'obviously a quality hooker', nobody had any idea what he would be like as a hooker considering he played prop. Ulster saw potential in him as a prop, and seeing as they were the ones offering him a wage, wanted him to play there as they had an abundance of hookers already.

McKee was Ulster and Ireland schools captain as a prop.

Dubinusa

If possible, someone please post this match??