So who's going to see the Pope?

Hitman3000

Rosie2018 wrote:

Aethist Ireland, that will be some boring event with long faced haters.

There is a protest taking place in the garden of remembrance for the survivors of clerical abuse. Are they "long faced haters" too?

Dannyriver

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I'll be going. Looking forward to it. Also looking forward to the trendy atheists whinging incessantly about how much they don't care

Nothing trendy about atheism, if you want to be really down with the kids you gotta embrace conservatism sure its the new punk

Fighting Tao

Rosie2018 wrote: »

Francis is a genuine, humble man.

That has done SFA to change the RCC or make amends for past sins.

AtomicHorror

Rosie2018 wrote: »

Just 750,000 now while Aethist Ireland have 1,000 attending their protest event. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Aethist Ireland, that will be some boring event with long faced haters.

Yes the surest way to tell who's right is to look at how many people believe something.

That strategy should work for you until Muslims are in the majority. At which point I suspect you'll either see the flaw in the logic or convert.

vicwatson

markodaly wrote: »

Because if there was a HSE in 1921, there would be no reason for the Church to provide education and social services to the people of Ireland for multiple decades.

Yes, blame the church for its abuse of power and its cover-up of said abuse but also recognise the fact that the state surrogated away the responsibility of education and social services of the day to anyone willing to step into the breach, which the church did, largely for free.

And its safe to say that if a 1921 HSE did exist, kids would still have suffered as they do today. We would just be pillaring a different set of people.

The state are hugely culpable for letting this organisation near children in the first place alright, given their history of child sexual abuse prior to 1921.

Hitman3000

Dannyriver wrote:

Nothing trendy about atheism, if you want to be really down with the kids you gotta embrace conservatism sure its the new punk

Getting down with the kids? Not the best thing to say considering the behaviour of the clergy and their minions.

Bubbaclaus

This is making me ill. Thinking about all the survivors of abuse and how they must be feeling this weekend. Stay strong.

taytobreath

No crowds on the roads at all

Rosie2018

Hitman3000 wrote: »

He is in office since 2013 he has done nothing to address the abuse preputrated by the organisation he leads. He has also called victims of abuse liars. I'm being polite calling him Frank. I can think of more appropriate names for him. Would you like to address my comments or is all you are capable is an ad hominem attack?

I think you could be the first case of someone actually boring themselves to death.

Have you done anything practical to help those abused bar key board warrioring?

I help the homeless on a voluntary basis, have helped those abused find counseling. If you do something practical well and good.

But anytime I'm on here your going on and on. So I've no respect for you bar you actually DO SOMETHING. Other than sitting on your ar*e spouting negativity. Sh*t or get off the pot 'Hitman'.

AtomicHorror

markodaly wrote: »

Because if there was a HSE in 1921, there would be no reason for the Church to provide education and social services to the people of Ireland for multiple decades.

Yes, blame the church for its abuse of power and its cover-up of said abuse but also recognise the fact that the state surrogated away the responsibility of education and social services of the day to anyone willing to step into the breach, which the church did, largely for free.

And its safe to say that if a 1921 HSE did exist, kids would still have suffered as they do today. We would just be pillaring a different set of people.

You've moved from whataboutism to creating a whole hypothetical parallel Ireland. This is like watching a contortionist, only embarrassing rather than weirdly impressive.

AtomicHorror

Rosie2018 wrote: »

I think you could be the first case of someone actually boring themselves to death.

Have you done anything practical to help those abused bar key board warrioring?

I help the homeless on a voluntary basis, have helped those abused find counseling. If you do something practical well and good.

But anytime I'm on here your going on and on. So I've no respect for you bar you actually DO SOMETHING. Other than sitting on your ar*e spouting negativity. Sh*t or get off the pot 'Hitman'.

Whether he does something doesn't really mean anything as to whether he's right or wrong in his argument. If you can't argue back on his points without trying to drag his character, you've lost the argument immediately.

Hitman3000

Rosie2018 wrote:

But anytime I'm on here your going on and on. So I've no respect for you bar you actually DO SOMETHING. Other than sitting on your ar*e spouting negativity. Sh*t or get off the pot 'Hitman'.

What makes you think I would court the respect of anyone who defends an organisation that has engaged in the systemic abuse of children?

markodaly

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So if someone asks a charity to run something, it's grand for that charity to do a bit of raping?

Where did I even hint at that? As I said, try and have a grown-up conversation.
The answer is of course no.

The church was afforded far to much trust in the past. They told everyone how great and trustworthy they were and how they'd only do good by everyone. They were believed and they completely shat on that. But hey, that's not their fault. How were they not expected to touch a few kids here and there.

Power corrupts, the Oxfam example.

Did you hear about the Hati scandal of this year, where members of the charity group Oxfam paid children for sex with aid? There was also a coverup by some of the heads of this charity but it blew up in their face.

Should all members of Oxfam be guilty of association because of this scandal?

Should all charities be disbanded?

See issues with charities here in Ireland like Rehab.

Again, power corrupts. The Church should have been brought down to heel, agreed, but this constant whining and revisionism are both pointless and factually incorrect.

EdgeCase

taytobreath wrote: »

No crowds on the roads at all

It's 11:00am on a Saturday. Anyone sensible is still in bed with a hangover.

Billy86

ricero wrote: »

You cannot tarnish the whole church and its followers for the sins of some.

Keep the fume down and let the catholics of this country who care enjoy the popes visit. You can fume all you want on Monday.

Funny, that is exactly what I said in my post: I'm not a fan of tarring all Catholics or even members of the clergy with the same brush, but it is a stark reminder and a very harrowing recollection of what went on in this country, and what is still going on in a lot of the Catholic church today...

Yet you seem to think it is OK to laugh at the victims of abuse like the man in the video linked to in that post (and then play the victim card when called on it). Cop yourself on and take a long, hard look in the mirror.

I'm not a fan of organised religion in general but there are some very good lessons to be learned from their teachings, perhaps more than any other the concept of 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you', and I don't suspect you would want to have someone laughing at you had you been a victim of sexual, physical and emotional abuse and the everlasting trauma throughout your entire life.

Hitman3000

markodaly wrote:

Again, power corrupts. The Church should have been brought down to heel, agreed, but this constant whining and revisionism are both pointless and factually incorrect.

Revisionism? So what has been said about the church's that is untrue?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Should all members of Oxfam be guilty of association because of this scandal?

Should all charities be disbanded?

Yes, if they knew about it and did nothing.
Same as the people out waving their flags today.

They knew and know that the Vatican is covering up and secreting information. Just as culpable.

taytobreath

The woman commentator does a lot of humming

She’s gonna say something real silly soon

harr

People’s on road waving are expecting him to be in the Audi jeep behind not hanging out of the Skoda rapid ...the Skoda looks so out of place in such a motorcade

Atlantic Dawn

taytobreath wrote: »

No crowds on the roads at all

Will be interesting how many people will be 'recorded' being there by the media.

markodaly

AtomicHorror wrote: »

You've moved from whataboutism to creating a whole hypothetical parallel Ireland. This is like watching a contortionist, only embarrassing rather than weirdly impressive.

Don't you see the irony and hypocrisy about a poster who reveres both Sinn Fein and the modern PIRA and their murdering tactics, giving out about there being no 'good' Catholics?

This is the same poster who stated, that those who had an issue with the SF MLA who made a joke about the Kingsmill massacre, as whingers including those that lost loved ones in that atrocity.

Guy:Incognito

Rosie2018 wrote: »

Have you done anything practical to help those abused bar key board warrioring?
.

Well he probably hasn't raped or mistreated them, so he's morally well up on the church.

Rosie2018 wrote: »

i help the homeless on a voluntary basis, have helped those abused find counseling. If you do something practical well and good.

'.

Good for you. None of that has anything to do with the Pope or the church though.


Groups of people can and do come together to do charity and help people without the need to attribute it to God or give a portion of it to the church.(Im not saying that's what you do but it's used a huge amount as a device to show how great the church is)

Bubbaclaus

Has the pope brought the Vatican's internal records on child abuse with him to be handed over to AGS and finally give up the abuse cover up?

That's why he has come surely? That's why people are happy about his presence?

Rosie2018

Hitman3000 wrote: »

What makes you think I would court the respect of anyone who defends an organisation that has engaged in the systemic abuse of children?

I couldn't care less what you court. I'm pointing out that keyboard warriors who rant and rave are useless when they do nothing at the coal face to alleviate the suffering of those they use to further their arguments. Talk is cheap and you're full of it.

I condemn all sexual, physical, mental abuse, clerical or otherwise but follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Catholic church.

Go out into the real world and try and help real people rather than spending your life hiding online. Do something practical in the next month rather than spouting your tired cliches.

AtomicHorror

Rosie2018 wrote: »

Hitman3000 wrote: »

He accused the victims of sexual abuse of being liars, dispite being in possession of proof of their claims. That's not humility that's arrogance.

No he didn't. Just your lies.

AtomicHorror wrote: »

He did.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/19/pope-francis-victims-church-sexual-abuse-slander-chile

buckwheat wrote: »

Yes he fcuking did

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-latin-america-42745170

Rosie, could you take a break from questioning Hitman's character and just let us know if you still think he was lying?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, if they knew about it and did nothing.
Same as the people out waving their flags today.

They knew and know that the Vatican is covering up and secreting information. Just as culpable.

Do you hold Sinn Fein to the same standard, seeing as they hid child abusers from the community and exiled them to the Republic without any notification to the authorities?

Atlantic Dawn

Nobody around, is it because route was not publicised or people not arsed?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Do you hold Sinn Fein to the same standard, seeing as they hid child abusers from the community and exiled them to the Republic without any notification to the authorities?

Yes I do. And despite your lies on the subject my condemnation of those who abused in any organisation is on record here.

You are the hypocrite here Mark.

AtomicHorror

markodaly wrote: »

Don't you see the irony and hypocrisy about a poster who reveres both Sinn Fein and the modern PIRA and their murdering tactics, giving out about there being no 'good' Catholics?

This is the same poster who stated, that those who had an issue with the SF MLA who made a joke about the Kingsmill massacre, as whingers including those that lost loved ones in that atrocity.

Do those things make him wrong about the Pope? How are they logically connected to this topic? If we find a post you made on some other thread that we all agree was nonsense, or just distasteful, can we use that to dismiss your argument here?

Hitman3000

Rosie2018 wrote:

Go out into the real world and try and help real people rather than spending your life hiding online. Do something practical in the next month rather than spouting your tired cliches.

I'm curious you have not once countered anything I have said other than to make a personal attack. Oh I forgot you did address one comment you claimed I lied when I said Frank accused the Chilean abuse survivors of being liars. Did you read the links provided by other posters to back up what i said?