Ire vs Aus - Test Number Three

umop episdn

Deusexmachina wrote: »

This is the kind of response that ruins discussions on boards.

I do have a point. My point is that the residency rule (thankfully now extended to five years) is not good for the international game.
Feel free to disagree with me by all means. I know some people find no issue with it.
For me, I prefer the teams to be made up of players from the respective countries playing each other.

You still have no point...not sure why you think not being born in a country has any bearing on who you play for... it's a little bit xenophobic

ednwireland

I was wondering where the citing commissioner was , only listened to the games on the radio and short highlights on YouTube but seems the refs were more worried about getting back to the hotel than reffing the game.

This is with Irish radio commentary glasses on

Burkie1203

umop episdn wrote: »

You still have no point...not sure why you think not being born in a country has any bearing on who you play for... it's a little bit xenophobic

No it's not xenophobic

Just because someone doesnt like residency rules does not make them xenophobic. And it's not about where a person is born.

Plenty of people are born abroad to irish born parents which automatically makes them irish citizen's.

umop episdn

Burkie1203 wrote: »

No it's not xenophobic

Just because someone doesnt like residency rules does not make them xenophobic. And it's not about where a person is born.

Plenty of people are born abroad to irish born parents which automatically makes them irish citizen's.

Fluidity of movement, freedom to flee poor countries, working, living in and representing your new homeland ...it happens the world over, and not just in rugby...it's not a valid argument he's trying to make

bobbysands81

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Marmion Jordi and Carbery have Irish parent(s). Jordi grew up on Dublin
Carbery lived in NZ until he was 10 or 11
Marmion has come through a different path but his parents are Irish
Herring has Irish grandparent and is entitled to Irish citizenship and passport as a result

Roux, Stander and Aki are project players.


It's not about where a player is born. You have to consider the full picture re parents etc

Fully agree, was only checking where folk were born out of curiosity.

Buer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1010794656706318336?s=19

Possibly slightly harsh to cite but I don't think he can complain. He threw out an arm after the ball was lost. POM was not supported by his lifter which could be a mitigating circumstance in a hearing. I reckon he'll get a week and they'll leave it at that.

Deusexmachina

umop episdn wrote: »

You still have no point...not sure why you think not being born in a country has any bearing on who you play for... it's a little bit xenophobic

So, the actual countries don’t matter? It’s just one collection of players from around the globe, playing another collection?
Isn’t that just club rugby then ?

Your accusation of xenophobia is ignorant and contemptible.

I really have enjoyed fantastic players like Isa and Rocky playing for Leinster but I would not have liked them signing up to play for Ireland just because they live here for a few years.

Deusexmachina

umop episdn wrote: »

Fluidity of movement, freedom to flee poor countries, working, living in and representing your new homeland ...it happens the world over, and not just in rugby...it's not a valid argument he's trying to make

‘Fluidity of movement’ and you are saying my argument is not valid?...

Christy42

umop episdn wrote: »

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1010794656706318336?s=19

Ah, Murray is becoming as bad as the rest now...he was saying yesterday it was harsh, Stander at fault etc... think he's believing all the smoke blown up his hole from certain sections

He's better when he's had a chance to review a game... gone thru all the plays and sees things others don't....on mature recollection... but in real time he's bloody awful.

He is just reporting that near as I can see? I don't see an opinion in that tweet and well he can't stop the citing commissioner from looking at something.

Sangre

Buer wrote: »

Possibly slightly harsh to cite but I don't think he can complain. He threw out an arm after the ball was lost. POM was not supported by his lifter which could be a mitigating circumstance in a hearing. I reckon he'll get a week and they'll leave it at that.

I think he has been cited for a similar but different incident (in 9th minute) to the one that got him the yellow. Read that elsewhere anyway.

umop episdn

Christy42 wrote: »

He is just reporting that near as I can see? I don't see an opinion in that tweet and well he can't stop the citing commissioner from looking at something.

What part of real time don't you understand?
Read his tweets during the game..he's not the greatest by a long shot.

Deusexmachina

umop episdn wrote: »

What part of real time don't you understand?
Read his tweets during the game..he's not the greatest by a long shot.

Have to say, I think Murray is a brilliant journalist. He knows his stuff and his analysis is always fascinating.
Makes such a difference to the likes of Quinlin’s boring and obvious ‘insights’.

sydthebeat

Deusexmachina wrote: »

And I have to ask you Syd, why is ithe residency rule ‘good for the game’?

You obviously cannot see the positives that the likes of Stander has brought munster and Irish rugby, similarly the good Aki has brought connacht.... So showing you why I think its good for the game is a waste of both our times.

The other obvious point is that, if the rule didn't exist, what is there in its place? A nations citizenship? That's been shown lots of times to be widely variant across the globe. What else? Restrict it to those only born in the country? That would exclude ROG, heaslip, jordi etc.

Restrict it to grandparents? Why does the likes of iaasc boss or Michael bent become more deserving of a cap than say, adeolukan? Or parents... Similarly swap marmion for boss

The residency rule exists because it has to. It was altered, to many commentators satisfaction from 3 to 5 years, but it still obviously exists because it has to....

umop episdn

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Have to say, I think Murray is a brilliant journalist. He knows his stuff and his analysis is always fascinating.
Makes such a difference to the likes of Quinlin’s boring and obvious ‘insights’.

Journalist ....yes....real time commentator.. nope

Deusexmachina

sydthebeat wrote: »

You obviously cannot see the positives that the likes of Stander has brought munster and Irish rugby, similarly the good Aki has brought connacht.... So showing you why I think its good for the game is a waste of both our times.

The other obvious point is that, if the rule didn't exist, what is there in its place? A nations citizenship? That's been shown lots of times to be widely variant across the globe. What else? Restrict it to those only born in the country? That would exclude ROG, heaslip, jordi etc.

Restrict it to grandparents? Why does the likes of iaasc boss or Michael bent become more deserving of a cap than say, adeolukan?

The residency rule exists because it has to. It was altered, to many commentators satisfaction from 3 to 5 years, but it still obviously exists it has to....

What these players have brought to their clubs is entirely immaterial. We are talking about International teams. I really enjoy these guys playing for the provinces (within the limits set).

There is a huge difference between a situation where someone has taken up citizenship for family, economic or political reasons (and subsequently coming up through the ranks to play for Ireland) and someone being deliberately brought over here with the promise of playing for the National team once he has lived here for a period.

Stander played for SA unders 20s. He was called up for the SA 2012 National Squad. He is South African. I have no problem him playing here - but I would prefer if he played his international rugby for SA (as he would had he made their team in 2012).

Restrict to Irish citizens who have lived here at least 10 years (and who renounce their previous held citizenship).

Skyfloater

Anyhoo, back to the game, now that Australia have at last discovered a powerful scrum weapon they could be a real contender for the WC next year.

Sangre

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Restrict to Irish citizens who have lived here at least 10 years (and who renounce their previous held citizenship).

lol

rodge123

A nice un-biased account of the match!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12076549

NOT!

Sangre

rodge123 wrote: »

A nice un-biased account of the match!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12076549

NOT!

The Wallabies were left seething at full time when the TMO refused to award a clear penalty for a deliberate knock on from an Irish star — right at the moment the Wallabies appeared to be on the verge of a famous last-gasp win.

I had to watch the TMO bit at full time on mute while at work. I genuinely couldn't work out what was being looked at. Was it suggested that Stockdale slapped down the ball? Why? You couldn't even tell if he touched the ball at all.

rodge123

Sangre wrote: »

I had to watch the TMO bit at full time on mute while at work. I genuinely couldn't work out what was being looked at. Was it suggested that Stockdale slapped down the ball? Why? You couldn't even tell if he touched the ball at all.

They were just checking that Stockdale didn’t get any touch to the ball, TMO confirmed he could see no clear and obvious touch of ball from Stockdale.

“That's where the game descended into farce as the TMO judged there was not sufficient evidence to overrule the on-field decision, despite replays showing Stockdale clearly played at the ball.”

Unless they saw other camera angles than what I saw on sky sports and I believe is what the referee saw, then it most definately was not clear Stockdale played the ball. Brutal reporting.

Reads like a fake news story tbh

Deusexmachina

Sangre wrote: »

lol

brilliantly argued.

salmocab

Deusexmachina wrote: »

What these players have brought to their clubs is entirely immaterial. We are talking about International teams. I really enjoy these guys playing for the provinces (within the limits set).

There is a huge difference between a situation where someone has taken up citizenship for family, economic or political reasons (and subsequently coming up through the ranks to play for Ireland) and someone being deliberately brought over here with the promise of playing for the National team once he has lived here for a period.

Stander played for SA unders 20s. He was called up for the SA 2012 National Squad. He is South African. I have no problem him playing here - but I would prefer if he played his international rugby for SA (as he would had he made their team in 2012).

Restrict to Irish citizens who have lived here at least 10 years (and who renounce their previous held citizenship).

I’d imagine some of the Ulster lads would be a bit annoyed at not being eligible to play international rugby for anyone

Deusexmachina

rodge123 wrote: »

A nice un-biased account of the match!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12076549

NOT!

Such a pity. Their team are brilliant, a joy to watch.

But a sizable portion of their supporters and their media are completely one eyed to a farcical level.

Whenever about the very slim chance that the ball might have brushed off Stockdales upper arm, to bleat that it was an obvious deliberate knock on is ludicrous.

Moaning, whining, bad losers - zero class. Glad we beat them

Deusexmachina

salmocab wrote: »

I’d imagine some of the Ulster lads would be a bit annoyed at not being eligible to play international rugby for anyone

My understanding is that the IRFU is an all Ireland organization and as such citizens of Ireland and Northern Ireland play for Ireland.

amcalester

rodge123 wrote: »

They were just checking that Stockdale didn’t get any touch to the ball, TMO confirmed he could see no clear and obvious touch of ball from Stockdale.

“That's where the game descended into farce as the TMO judged there was not sufficient evidence to overrule the on-field decision, despite replays showing Stockdale clearly played at the ball.”

Unless they saw other camera angles than what I saw on sky sports and I believe is what the referee saw, then it most definately was not clear Stockdale played the ball. Brutal reporting.

Reads like a fake news story tbh

They seem to be saying that because he attempted to play the ball (played at the ball) that that alone is enough to call a penalty.

shootermacg

Deusexmachina wrote: »

What these players have brought to their clubs is entirely immaterial. We are talking about International teams. I really enjoy these guys playing for the provinces (within the limits set).

There is a huge difference between a situation where someone has taken up citizenship for family, economic or political reasons (and subsequently coming up through the ranks to play for Ireland) and someone being deliberately brought over here with the promise of playing for the National team once he has lived here for a period.

Stander played for SA unders 20s. He was called up for the SA 2012 National Squad. He is South African. I have no problem him playing here - but I would prefer if he played his international rugby for SA (as he would had he made their team in 2012).

Restrict to Irish citizens who have lived here at least 10 years (and who renounce their previous held citizenship).

This has been done to death already. I'm sure there's nothing you can say that hasn't been said on here more times than can be counted.

twinytwo

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Such a pity. Their team are brilliant, a joy to watch.

But a sizable portion of their supporters and their media are completely one eyed to a farcical level.

Whenever about the very slim chance that the ball might have brushed off Stockdales upper arm, to bleat that it was an obvious deliberate knock on is ludicrous.

Moaning, whining, bad losers - zero class. Glad we beat them

You can clearly see the ball never touched Stockdale in the view from behind the Aussies that was shown a few times.

I'm not sure why they keep banging out about it. If they were honest the game should have out of site for the aussies in the first half but thems the breaks.

That being said, my heart would prefer if Irish rugby could win easy... after the Toulon game and the endings to the france/Wales and aus games I'll be in an early grave :pac:

ScrubsfanChris

Neat

https://twitter.com/pocockdavid/status/1010815454892326912?s=19

twinytwo

Deusexmachina wrote: »

What these players have brought to their clubs is entirely immaterial. We are talking about International teams. I really enjoy these guys playing for the provinces (within the limits set).

There is a huge difference between a situation where someone has taken up citizenship for family, economic or political reasons (and subsequently coming up through the ranks to play for Ireland) and someone being deliberately brought over here with the promise of playing for the National team once he has lived here for a period.

Stander played for SA unders 20s. He was called up for the SA 2012 National Squad. He is South African. I have no problem him playing here - but I would prefer if he played his international rugby for SA (as he would had he made their team in 2012).

Restrict to Irish citizens who have lived here at least 10 years (and who renounce their previous held citizenship).

And stander wanted to play for SA, but they wanted to convert him to hooker.

I think you put little stock it what's it means to these guys to play for their country especially in South Africa.

To play for another country is a very big deal, especially for someone like stander who was easily good enough to make the team

salmocab

Deusexmachina wrote: »

My understanding is that the IRFU is an all Ireland organization and as such citizens of Ireland and Northern Ireland play for Ireland.

People from Northern Ireland are British citizens. It’s an absolute mine field that nobody in sport would want to get involved in.