Transsexual Prisoners

Uncharted

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree, I have 2 daughters myself but this is the snowflake generation we live in. If anyone else is able to just up and change their gender on a whim then unfortunately subhuman creatures like Huntley can do the same.

I'm not exactly certain about the "on a whim" bit but back on topic,Huntley deserves nothing.
Especially at the expense of the British tax payer!
That's just sick irony.
He has proven himself to be an egocentric,manipulative and murdering pyscopath.

He's manipulating the system to have a cosier innings... scummy piece of sh1t that he is.

An Ri rua

Omackeral wrote:

My very first week as a young prison officer I had to deal with inmates on protection such as vunerable and at risk prisoners. This was in a male prison. One of the very first inmates I met was trans. It was a surreal thing to deal with on my first week. He/She was 6 foot, shaped like a Fanta bottle and was driving all the other inmates mad with confusion and whatever else that they had to house her elsewhere. It gets weirder. I was there supervising them all getting their supper and she walks up, all hips and all, to collect her food. Looks at me and asks ''hey sweetie, what are we having?''. I'm all nervous and such and say ''em, it's just a pie and some peas''. She retorts ''I hope it's a sweet pie like you!''. So surreal.

Omackeral wrote:

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

Omackeral wrote:

And yet, that's not the end of it. She was apparently on the German version of Big Brother back in the early 2000's ha ha. I'll see if I can can find her.

Omackeral wrote:

Ha here, she is.

You've retired then? Ex prison officer? I hope so, or this is a serious breach of your public office ethics. Not to mention this person's rights.
Great story, without needing specifics.

Manic Moran

EdgeCase wrote: »

Chelsea Manning was a whole other category of prisoner, in for what was basically a political crime of whistleblowing and exposing the state's wrongdoing.

Trying to compare the two people is impossible. One's someone who was trying to expose wrong and was punished extraordinarily heavily for it, the other is a child murderer. There just isn't a comparison at all.

I would disagree with this. One's gender identification has very little to do with the nature of the crime committed, or of the prison sentence to be carried out, no? Possible exception of some sexually based crimes.

For instances of forced proximity and confinement, such as prison, I do think the US military's current policy is the correct one to follow. Treat the person as an identified gender only in the case of a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria: An inability to function normally when treated as a member of the biological sex. By definition, a prisoner without gender dysphoria can function normally when in a prison for one gender when identifying as the other. The smooth running of a prison is more important than the personal preferences of any particular prisoner.

Further, such confined statuses allow easier assessments of whether the person actually does identify as the other gender or is just faking it. Whatever policies one wishes to hold out in the general public, in the general public there is always the opportunity for someone who feels unhappy to turn around and walk the other way. Not so in a prison.

DEFTLEFTHAND

wexie wrote: »

and that would be bad because.....?

oh yeah....'human' rights

I know but the prison has a duty of care to its prisoners.

No matter how heinous their crimes.

wexie

Malayalam wrote: »

I don't think that the full import of self identifying trans is understood. A person may desire to use their tackle as much as ever but still self identify as a woman - as far as I understand. For example in autogynophelia (though hush now that may be only a small part of transexualism, I ain't saying otherwise..) the thought of having sex using said tackle while identifying as a woman is the specifically arousing factor. The basic idea being fought for is that women have penises too - and they re not necessarily disinclined to use them.

mmmmmyeah......I try to be understanding and open minded and all....

But that's not gender dysphoria, that's mental illness.

AllForIt

I think trans women can ever loose their muscularity no matter what they can snip off so they should be in a male prision. They would have a physical advantage if they were put in a woman's section which I don't think they should have.

Tigger

Omackeral wrote: »

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

My very first week as a young prison officer I had to deal with inmates on protection such as vunerable and at risk prisoners. This was in a male prison. One of the very first inmates I met was trans. It was a surreal thing to deal with on my first week. He/She was 6 foot, shaped like a Fanta bottle and was driving all the other inmates mad with confusion and whatever else that they had to house her elsewhere. It gets weirder. I was there supervising them all getting their supper and she walks up, all hips and all, to collect her food. Looks at me and asks ''hey sweetie, what are we having?''. I'm all nervous and such and say ''em, it's just a pie and some peas''. She retorts ''I hope it's a sweet pie like you!''. So surreal.

And yet, that's not the end of it. She was apparently on the German version of Big Brother back in the early 2000's ha ha. I'll see if I can can find her.

Ha here, she is.

Big Brother Germany profile

how many kids did they kill?

Uncharted

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I know but the prison has a duty of care to its prisoners.

No matter how heinous their crimes.

No doubt about the law and what it states regarding welfare of prisoners,but there ain't a human on the planet who wouldn't look the other way if that bastard was being shivved in his cell.

doolox

The question is should society have gender based prisons? In the West we deny prisoners alcohol and other psycho tropic drugs, we segregate the sexes so that romantic liaisons cannot happen and we dictate everything from freedom of movement, food eaten and when eaten and when the prisoners sleep and are awake. They are not even allowed control of their lights or TV etc.

As a society we infantalise them.

Since society have fertility control and the means to prevent conception there should be no reason to prevent sexual congress between prisoners except that there exists a will to punish prisoners in a vindictive way for their crimes.

Most Western societies boast of imprisonment as being a reformative process. The revenge motive for prison has, in most official eyes, being relegated to history like burning at the stake, confinement to the stocks and public execution as barbaric acts of a bygone age.

Since modern society still confines people by gender, denies them the comforts of alcohol ( strangely prisoners are still allowed to smoke, powerful tobacco lobby????) and still separate men from women like 19th century school children we can say that the prison systems of most so-called liberal western societies still have much room for improvement.

The goal of prisons in my mind should be to separate people from society who have demonstrated dangerous levels of anti - social violence towards other members of society. To be used only when we need to protect other people in general society from harm. In my mind it should not be used for theft, crimes against property or non violent crimes because this only amounts to State terrorism. Where it can be proven that one mans acts have led to suicide or massive social dislocation then prison might be an answer, such as the recent Anglo-Irish Bank case but this smacks of populist revenge to my mind. It seems obvious that the boss of Anglo-Irish will never resort to personal violence and would not be a rational candidate for imprisonment but others think differently.

wexie

doolox wrote: »

The question is should society have gender based prisons? In the West we deny prisoners alcohol and other psycho tropic drugs, we segregate the sexes so that romantic liaisons cannot happen and we dictate everything from freedom of movement, food eaten and when eaten and when the prisoners sleep and are awake. They are not even allowed control of their lights or TV etc.

As a society we infantalise them.

Since society have fertility control and the means to prevent conception there should be no reason to prevent sexual congress between prisoners except that there exists a will to punish prisoners in a vindictive way for their crimes.

Most Western societies boast of imprisonment as being a reformative process. The revenge motive for prison has, in most official eyes, being relegated to history like burning at the stake, confinement to the stocks and public execution as barbaric acts of a bygone age.

Since modern society still confines people by gender, denies them the comforts of alcohol ( strangely prisoners are still allowed to smoke, powerful tobacco lobby????) and still separate men from women like 19th century school children we can say that the prison systems of most so-called liberal western societies still have much room for improvement.

The goal of prisons in my mind should be to separate people from society who have demonstrated dangerous levels of anti - social violence towards other members of society. To be used only when we need to protect other people in general society from harm. In my mind it should not be used for theft, crimes against property or non violent crimes because this only amounts to State terrorism. Where it can be proven that one mans acts have led to suicide or massive social dislocation then prison might be an answer, such as the recent Anglo-Irish Bank case but this smacks of populist revenge to my mind. It seems obvious that the boss of Anglo-Irish will never resort to personal violence and would not be a rational candidate for imprisonment but others think differently.

are you actually saying you think coed prisons would be a good idea?

you don't see any drawbacks there at all?

Franz Von Peppercorn

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

He's identifying as a transgender human, he deserves to get everything every other trans demands.

Again. How do we tell if he spoofing or not? Is there a test?

ceadaoin.

wexie wrote: »

I think more messy rather than anything else.

Of course in theory...a transition(ing)(ed) mtf prisoner would presumably have little interest in using their male sex organs, with consent or otherwise....presuming they are on the level....

How do we decide who is 'on the level'? All it takes is their say so. It's considered 'gatekeeping' and harmful for a diagnosis needing to be made by a medical professional.

And it has happened that women have been raped in prison by transgender inmates (look up Noel Compton Hall in Australia). Perhaps a specific trans wing or facility would be safest for everyone.

Kiwi in IE

I think trans men and woman should have a choice whether they are incarcerated in men’s or women’s prisons for safety reasons. But not when they decide to transition after incarceration to make life easier for themselves. As I understand it, most people know their physical body and gender are mismatched long before the age of 44! And there would need to be actual proof that they are trans e.g identification as same prior to crime/conviction.

wexie

ceadaoin. wrote: »

How do we decide who is 'on the level'? All it takes is their say so. It's considered 'gatekeeping' and harmful for a diagnosis needing to be made by a medical professional.

I'm not really sure I follow your post....are you saying that there shouldn't be a diagnosis by a medical profession because it might be harmful?

Anecdotally I know there was a gender specialist employed by the HSE with that same attitude (as in: all it takes for the transitioning process to start is the patients say so)...he no longer works for the HSE as the general consensus seemed to be that he's off his rocker.

Franz Von Peppercorn

doolox wrote: »

The question is should society have gender based prisons? In the West we deny prisoners alcohol and other psycho tropic drugs, we segregate the sexes so that romantic liaisons cannot happen and we dictate everything from freedom of movement, food eaten and when eaten and when the prisoners sleep and are awake. They are not even allowed control of their lights or TV etc.

Yes. That’s the punishment.

Since society have fertility control and the means to prevent conception there should be no reason to prevent sexual congress between prisoners except that there exists a will to punish prisoners in a vindictive way for their crimes.

Again that’s part of the punishment.

Most Western societies boast of imprisonment as being a reformative process. The revenge motive for prison has, in most official eyes, being relegated to history like burning at the stake, confinement to the stocks and public execution as barbaric acts of a bygone age.

Not true at all. The primary aim of justice systems is retributive.

Since modern society still confines people by gender, denies them the comforts of alcohol ( strangely prisoners are still allowed to smoke, powerful tobacco lobby????) and still separate men from women like 19th century school children we can say that the prison systems of most so-called liberal western societies still have much room for improvement.

No. It’s a punishment. Segregation is part of the punishment. It also prevents rape.

The goal of prisons in my mind should be to separate people from society who have demonstrated dangerous levels of anti - social violence towards other members of society. To be used only when we need to protect other people in general society from harm. In my mind it should not be used for theft, crimes against property or non violent crimes because this only amounts to State terrorism. Where it can be proven that one mans acts have led to suicide or massive social dislocation then prison might be an answer, such as the recent Anglo-Irish Bank case but this smacks of populist revenge to my mind. It seems obvious that the boss of Anglo-Irish will never resort to personal violence and would not be a rational candidate for imprisonment but others think differently.

That leaves most criminality of the hook, in particular financial criminality. Why should somebody not be punished for stealing the life savings of an 80 year old even if it wasn’t violent?

TheDavester

padd b1975 wrote: »

Owen Jones is a hateful little bitch with absolutely zero tolerance of any opinion that differs from his own.

The male Una Mullaly

its two morons fighting each other...

ceadaoin.

wexie wrote: »

I'm not really sure I follow your post....are you saying that there shouldn't be a diagnosis by a medical profession because it might be harmful?

Well that's the idea that is being pushed by activists currently, that it's harmful to have any roadblocks on the road to transition, even being asked questions by a doctor. Also, self ID is being brought into law in the UK. All that will be needed then is the person's claim that they are transgender, there will be no requirement for an official diagnosis.

Omackeral

An Ri rua wrote: »

You've retired then? Ex prison officer? I hope so, or this is a serious breach of your public office ethics. Not to mention this person's rights.
Great story, without needing specifics.

You’re right. I’ve edited the post and requested that the mods do the same for any that quoted it. Not fair to include specifics about people. Cheers.

wexie

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well that's the idea that is being pushed by activists currently, that it's harmful to have any roadblocks on the road to transition, even being asked questions by a doctor. Also, self ID is being brought into law in the UK. All that will be needed then is the person's claim that they are transgender, there will be no requirement for an official diagnosis.

hmmmkay....


I can't think of any ways at all that's going to cause problems down the line :rolleyes:

Mutant z

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

He's identifying as a transgender human, he deserves to get everything every other trans demands.

What about his victims did they deserve to get what happened to them as well.

Neyite

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree, I have 2 daughters myself but this is the snowflake generation we live in. If anyone else is able to just up and change their gender on a whim then unfortunately subhuman creatures like Huntley can do the same.

He can identify as whatever he wants. That's his right.

He does not have the right to demand to be put into the general population of a woman's prison just because he claims to identify as one. He tried to claim insanity a while back in order to get into a cushier number in an institution for the criminally insane and didn't manage to pull that off either.

There's no 'test' to prove someone is transgender. So how do the prison guards prove that Huntley is truly transgender and not just a murderous child rapist who wants to get close to potential victims again.

Maybe for his next stunt he can identify as a non-prisoner and demand to be let out of prison to have his human right to identify as a free man upheld.

Galwayguy35

Let Huntley into the main prison population for a few days and I'm sure some of the other prisoners would grab a rusty blade and be only be to happy to help him with his sex change.

He's a waste of oxygen and deserves nothing.

DickSwiveller

Linehan comes across as slightly unhinged, and very, very angry.

Gravelly

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Linehan comes across as slightly unhinged, and very, very angry.

Dunno about the slightly bit.

CrankyHaus

wexie wrote: »

hmmmkay....


I can't think of any ways at all that's going to cause problems down the line :rolleyes:

The scope for fraud alone is enormous.

DickSwiveller

Gravelly wrote: »

Dunno about the slightly bit.

Wait, I've read a few more of his tweets. Yes, extremely unhinged.

DickSwiveller

So was Arthur Matthews the brains behind Father Ted? Linehan doesn't come across as very humorous.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Wait, I've read a few more of his tweets. Yes, extremely unhinged.

So, noble peace prize material, yes? :D

decky1

suicide_circus wrote: »

so brave. to hell with the haters ian, you be you.

this guy killed 2 little girls--how brave is that:mad::mad: 1 tree+ 1 rope.:D