Transsexual Prisoners

Amirani

Bit of a spat going on on Twitter at the moment between Graham Linehan and Owen Jones related to this. Apparently, Ian Huntley (murderer of kids Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman) has decided (from prison) that he wants to identify as woman and be moved to a women's prison. Some people have made supportive comments on this (including a recent parliamentary candidate of the Lib Dems). Twitter have also reportedly removed Tweets referring to Huntley as a man as they do for other "deadnaming" cases.

There's also of course been many people expressing outrage and many feminists trying to differentiate trans women from biological females. Particularly around the subject of trans women using women's prisons etc.

This was probably always going to happen eventually. Most people I think were broadly accepting of Chelsea Manning's choice to identify as a woman while being prosecuted, but are pretty horrified by this. Very hard to legislate reasonably. Should prisoners automatically lose the right to self-identify as a different gender?

Allinall

Whatever is between his legs should determine where he serves his time, and he should get a good kicking there while they check.

sbsquarepants

Ian Huntley should have no rights of any description.
He should stay strapped to a board till he dies - I couldn't give a rats arse what he self identifies as, I identify "it" as a worthless piece of shít.

kneemos

They'd have to put trans females in the male prison presumably.
Can't see this getting legs.

Hande hoche!

Stick Huntley in a separate facility. Perhaps with some pit-bulls that have history of attacking people?

Omackeral

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

My very first week as a young prison officer I had to deal with inmates on protection such as vunerable and at risk prisoners. This was in a male prison. One of the very first inmates I met was trans. It was a surreal thing to deal with on my first week. He/She was 6 foot, shaped like a Fanta bottle and was driving all the other inmates mad with confusion and whatever else that they had to house her elsewhere. It gets weirder. I was there supervising them all getting their supper and she walks up, all hips and all, to collect her food. Looks at me and asks ''hey sweetie, what are we having?''. I'm all nervous and such and say ''em, it's just a pie and some peas''. She retorts ''I hope it's a sweet pie like you!''. So surreal.

And yet, that's not the end of it. She was apparently on the German version of Big Brother back in the early 2000's ha ha.

JaMarcus

Ian Huntley also claimed to be insane after being found guilty of that double-murder, and was observed 24/7 for almost 2 months by psychiatrists. They concluded that there was nothing wrong with him, and it was a ploy to get a cushier sentence in a psychiatric unit either than prison.

I suspect Huntley isn't enjoying male prison all that much - having your throat slit by a fellow inmate will do that to you - and is trying to weasel his way out of it again.

Gravelly

Amusing to see Linehan getting a similar mass twitter kicking as the ones he likes to organise, better still he's getting it from the very extreme leftists who he normally likes to set on others.

Pelvis

I am sure there are many who would like to assist with his transition.

Wilberto

I would have thought that, if he identified as a woman, he'd have enjoyed being stuck in a male prison.

sbsquarepants

Omackeral wrote: »

Jaysus, looks like my mates wife :eek:

I always had my doubts!

neonsofa

Omackeral wrote: »

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

Came in to see if you'd posted this story

sbsquarepants

JaMarcus wrote: »

I suspect Huntley isn't enjoying male prison all that much.

Good. I hope the bastard lives to 99 and dreads every second!

Omackeral

neonsofa wrote: »

Came in to see if you'd posted this story

Plot twist, neonsofa was on BB Germany

Franz Von Peppercorn

The reason why a lot of these despised criminals are claiming to be trans is because life is easier in a female prison for them.

Huntley is far from the only one.

marieholmfan

One person in 300 is transgendered. How much attention do we have to pay to this issue? It seems to generate an extraordinary amount of column inches.

banie01

Omackeral wrote: »

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

My very first week as a young prison officer I had to deal with inmates on protection such as vunerable and at risk prisoners. This was in a male prison. One of the very first inmates I met was trans. It was a surreal thing to deal with on my first week. He/She was 6 foot, shaped like a Fanta bottle and was driving all the other inmates mad with confusion and whatever else that they had to house her elsewhere. It gets weirder. I was there supervising them all getting their supper and she walks up, all hips and all, to collect her food. Looks at me and asks ''hey sweetie, what are we having?''. I'm all nervous and such and say ''em, it's just a pie and some peas''. She retorts ''I hope it's a sweet pie like you!''. So surreal.

And yet, that's not the end of it. She was apparently on the German version of Big Brother back in the early 2000's ha ha. I'll see if I can can find her.

Ha here, she is.

Big Brother Germany profile

As a prison officer with relevant experience to the OP, does your story have a point?

How do you believe it should be handled?
Should Prisoners tried and convicted as 1 gender have a right to identify post conviction as Trans and as such be allowed serve their sentence as their identified gender?
Even if the identification as Trans is made many years later and in an environment where they will gain from this identification?
What steps should be taken to accommodate prisoners that do?
Should a man who commits child murder be allowed to reassign whilst in custody and rejoin society as a woman when deemed eligible for parole?

I personally believe that as a convicted criminal, that prison should be a rehabilitiave environment.
However some crimes do merit a whole life tariff and the rush to "human rights" lessens the ensurance of any such sentences.
While should aim to support prisoners in rehabilitation, education and meaningful employment opportunities when released.
Some criminals will never be fit to rejoin normal society.
I also believe that as a convicted criminal, you have been deprived of your freedom both as a punishment and to protect society from your further offending.
Your freedom to participate in the discourse and benefits of "society" is lost.
In pursuing the hope of transition, Huntley is using public resources to tie up solicitors, barristers judges and other resources that could be better directed towards other matters.

sbsquarepants

marieholmfan wrote: »

One person in 300 is transgendered. .

Really?

I would have thought it was much more rare than that?

ted1

marieholmfan wrote: »

One person in 300 is transgendered. How much attention do we have to pay to this issue? It seems to generate an extraordinary amount of column inches.

That number is nowhere near right

Assetbacked

marieholmfan wrote: »

One person in 300 is transgendered. How much attention do we have to pay to this issue? It seems to generate an extraordinary amount of column inches.

It's a trendy cause for social media-obsessed folk these days in that it is easy to jump on the bandwagon without much thought and "block" arguments against this such as trans is a mental illness.

Irish Praetorian

How does that quote go again? We'll spend more and more time arguing more and more hysterically over tinier and tinier issues when the mullahs nuke us.

Not sure about the mullahs nuking us part but it does seem like the mainstream centre-left is devouring itself with these issues and then wondering why we have things like Trump and Brexit.

Nermal

Pleasing to watch the left eat itself.

yeppydeppy

Omackeral wrote: »

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

My very first week as a young prison officer I had to deal with inmates on protection such as vunerable and at risk prisoners. This was in a male prison. One of the very first inmates I met was trans. It was a surreal thing to deal with on my first week. He/She was 6 foot, shaped like a Fanta bottle and was driving all the other inmates mad with confusion and whatever else that they had to house her elsewhere. It gets weirder. I was there supervising them all getting their supper and she walks up, all hips and all, to collect her food. Looks at me and asks ''hey sweetie, what are we having?''. I'm all nervous and such and say ''em, it's just a pie and some peas''. She retorts ''I hope it's a sweet pie like you!''. So surreal.

Wait, what? How did she end up in prison in Ireland or were you a prison officer elsewhere? Either way what did she do to land in the clink?

DEFTLEFTHAND

What the hell is up with Twitter?

Deadnaming?

What a world.

Gravelly

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What the hell is up with Twitter?

Deadnaming?

What a world.

Twitter is like those magnetic drain plugs on a cars sump. It gradually collects all the shïte that floats around and concentrates it in one place.

Hector Savage

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Really?

I would have thought it was much more rare than that?

It is much less , that stat is utter bollix.

Malayalam

Problem is that in other areas - like in sports, all-female short-lists - transexuals are gradually swaying the situation so that they do not have to have sex-reassignment surgery or even hormones in order to identify as the opposite gender (or have I just committed a cardinal sin by suggesting gender is binary?) It was never going to be very long after that before quick-thinking psychopaths in prison decided they would self-identify as females to try for transfer - what becomes a''human right'' in one place has to be transferable, otherwise the logic of rights fails. I am sure there are quiet, inoffensive, meek trans-women prisoners who are getting a rotten time in male prisons, and it would be good if there was a separate facility for trans-sexual prisoners. Some trans-identifying prisoners are sex offenders though - not exactly known what percentage, but it is noted as significant - and they will pose a serious risk to females in prison. This will be similar to the risk posed in women's refuges if self-identifying women can enter them at will, etc. Hopefully these scenarios will bring the inherent contradictions in unrestricted gender politics to a head for all to see. I don't know what the answer is, but Ian Huntley would have none of my sympathy regardless.

JohnnyFlash

Linehan is getting very cross with everyone. There could be a dramatic account closure on the cards.

SEPT 23 1989

Child Murderer Huntley should have no right to anything

decky1

i'd let him in with the general prison population---he'd he a woman in no time, without any surgery.

DEFTLEFTHAND

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Linehan is getting very cross with everyone. There could be a dramatic account closure on the cards.

What happened to him. Why is he so angry all of the time?

His twitter account is pretty scary. Guy seems to spend an unhealthy amount of time having nasty arguments online.

I mean he must be 50 something years of age at this stage.

Irish Guitarist

I'm sure the parents of the girls he killed would like it if their daughters sill identified as alive. Fuck him and what he identifies as.

Yer Da sells Avon

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What the hell is up with Twitter?

Deadnaming?

What a world.

It's just a word. If you changed your name and some people insisted on calling you by your previous name, you probably wouldn't be too happy about it. Way easier to be nice and call people whatever they want to be called, even if that means having to compromise on the old "I'm oh-so rational, everything must be debated" stuff.

As for Huntley, probably best to let the psychiatrists decide, just as they did when he claimed he was insane.

Gravelly

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What happened to him. Why is he so angry all of the time?

Feminism. It seems to make all it's proponents angry all the time. It's hard to believe this is the same guy that created Father Ted - I doubt he could bring himself to create it today.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

His twitter account is pretty scary. Guy seems to spend an unhealthy amount of time having nasty arguments online.

I mean he must be 50 something years of age at this stage.

He gives the impression of someone deeply unhappy, and filled with hatred and rage. Apparently he used to be fairly normal.

conorhal

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Linehan is getting very cross with everyone. There could be a dramatic account closure on the cards.

No loss, but it's nice to know that it sticks in the craw of even that pompous windbag to see like likes of Huntley described as 'stunning and brave'.

Adamocovic

Linehan seems to be completely loosing his cool on twitter. Getting himself very annoyed. While I'm a Father Ted fan (who isn't) can't say I know enough about either to have a side already picked. Both seem childish on twitter bickering.

I will say from what I saw Graham he seems to be acting like a right knob. What was the original tweet? He seems to have started a big debate about Trans awareness and then copped out by tagging some female friends and saying "let's leave it to the women to discuss".

Then any man who joins in he is shutting down, not their point of view or argument but the fact that they should not have a say. I don't see the prison connection but didn't scroll down far enough. Can someone help me out?

Anyway I detest the idea people have that someone can't be part of a debate or discussion unless they are a member of the group being discussed. If that's the case we should have banned straight people from any contribution to the same-sex marriage referendum. Men should have gone into hiding during the 8th amendment too. And we should all keep our mouths shut regards to Brexit and Trump, leave that to the British and Americans to discuss.

It's such a closed off ridiculous view, something I wouldn't have expected from him.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

It's just a word. If you changed your name and some people insisted on calling you by your previous name, you probably wouldn't be too happy about it. Way easier to be nice and call people whatever they want to be called, even if that means having to compromise on the old "I'm oh-so rational, everything must be debated" stuff.

As for Huntley, probably best to let the psychiatrists decide, just as they did when he claimed he was insane.

Yes but I wouldn't try and deny or hide the fact that I was once called something different.

I'll call anyone what they want but trying to erase and rewrite history is just plain ridiculous in my view.

wexie

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Jaysus, looks like my mates wife :eek:

I always had my doubts!

your mates wife has an adams apple? Maybe you should tell him

suicide_circus

so brave. to hell with the haters ian, you be you.

topper75

Nermal wrote: »

Pleasing to watch the left eat itself.

What will it take to deflect the left back to getting plain rights for honest workers? Because until then they have no hope of my vote.

JohnnyFlash

topper75 wrote: »

What will it take to deflect the left back to getting plain rights for honest workers? Because until then they have no hope of my vote.

Lads like Tony Benn and Tony Gregory must be turning in the grave.

The_Brood

Welcome to the new world, where men* who want to be moved into a place where they can abuse women is a socially progressive cause, and if you speak out against this out of concern for women...you are being repressive and hateful.

"Human rights" ftw.

Omackeral

yeppydeppy wrote: »

Wait, what? How did she end up in prison in Ireland or were you a prison officer elsewhere? Either way what did she do to land in the clink?

There was a European arrest warrant out, that’s all I knew at the time. Not sure what the charges were.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Ian Huntley should have no rights of any description.
He should stay strapped to a board till he dies - I couldn't give a rats arse what he self identifies as, I identify "it" as a worthless piece of shít.

He can identify as he so chooses - no court created by humans can take that away from him even if they wanted to .

HMP has no responsibilty to go along with it.

Short answer? No, Miss Huntley, we're not moving you now get the **** back in your cell.

Ragnar Lothbrok

conorhal wrote: »

No loss, but it's nice to know that it sticks in the craw of even that pompous windbag to see like likes of Huntley described as 'stunning and brave'.

Which pompous windbag? I don't have a Twitter account and can't see which one is supporting and which one is against.

Is Linehan saying Huntly should be allowed to be treated as a woman or is it Jones who's saying that?

Like the majority of posters here, I find it absolutely disgusting that we should even be discussing human rights for Huntly (despite me being very much in the left-wing camp).

RocketRaccoon

This is hilarious. If he is identifying as a woman now, then unfortunately he must be housed with women prisoners. Just like any random bloke on the street who one day decides he's a woman has the right to do so without judgement from the PC brigade in Ireland.

Amirani

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Which pompous windbag? I don't have a Twitter account and can't see which one is supporting and which one is against.

Is Linehan saying Huntly should be allowed to be treated as a woman or is it Jones who's saying that?

Linehan saying he shouldn't be allowed. Jones has quite said that he should be, but he has criticised Linehan for his stance on trans (may not be fully aware of this issue mind as he hasn't referenced it directly).

Adamocovic

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Which pompous windbag? I don't have a Twitter account and can't see which one is supporting and which one is against.

Is Linehan saying Huntly should be allowed to be treated as a woman or is it Jones who's saying that?

Like the majority of posters here, I find it absolutely disgusting that we should even be discussing human rights for Huntly (despite me being very much in the left-wing camp).

Now correct me if I'm wrong as I am struggling to see where it all started, Linehan is tweeting away like mad, but it seems Linehan is against Huntley identifying as a woman.

He however has got his 2 pence out there, then copped out by tagging female friends saying it should only be discussed by women and any male poster who responds to him he makes some remark about their view not counting as it should be left for women, despite the fact that he got out his opinion.

Jones seemed to have gotten involved with his opinion contrasting Linehans to which Linehan went at him saying he's the "prince of men who tell women who is a woman or not" which again seems odd as he was doing the same thing really just on the other side of the argument.

All in all I don't care for the debate that much to have a strong opinion but Linehan is acting like a knob and a hypocrite here in my eyes. You can see it's getting to him from the angry tweets he's posted.

wexie

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Like the majority of posters here, I find it absolutely disgusting that we should even be discussing human rights for Huntly (despite me being very much in the left-wing camp).

I find it astonishing there are people out there that seem to believe no matter what anyone does, no matter how many lives you take or negatively effect, no matter how many others human rights you infringe upon, that prisoner's human rights can never be infringed on.

Screw that, you mess up enough lives, or even just some badly enough, I've no problems with 'the system' taking away your human rights. Start behaving like a human and you can have them back.

Franz Von Peppercorn

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Linehan is getting very cross with everyone. There could be a dramatic account closure on the cards.

Whenever he deviates from left orthodoxy he gets piled on.

Hilarious.

Mutant z

They are scum whatever they want to identify as i hope they rot in their cells surrounded by faeces and piss for the rest of their lives.