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Kimmage at it again

  • 11-06-2018 7:22am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ clint_silver


    https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-why-is-no-one-being-held-to-account-in-the-gaa-36993655.html

    3rd or 4th hack at the gaa in recent weeks.

    "Four weeks ago, we reported that St Mary's in Athenry had been ordered to suspend their juvenile hurling and football programme - that's 18 juvenile teams who haven't played in over a month. But nobody is interested. There hasn't been a word in any of the papers or on any radio stations.

    A week ago, we posted a list of important questions for the árd Stiúrthóir Tom Ryan but the silence, again, has been deafening. And who can blame him?

    Why take responsibility when nobody holds you responsible? Why be accountable when nobody holds you to account? It's how the GAA do business."


    Does he want the GAA to be accountable to him? Who does he want them to be responsible to?


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ Poor_old_gill


    Kimmage comes from (and loves) a sport that is synonimus with corruption and is probably teh dirtiest sport in the world- he is and will continue to take swipes at all and sundry on his quest to expose other sports and thus, in some relative way, restor some credibility to cycling


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,056 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Does he want the GAA to be accountable to him?

    No.
    Who does he want them to be responsible to?

    Their members. All of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,056 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Kimmage comes from (and loves) a sport that is synonimus with corruption and is probably teh dirtiest sport in the world- he is and will continue to take swipes at all and sundry on his quest to expose other sports and thus, in some relative way, restor some credibility to cycling

    He's not making these stories up though is he.

    If he wants cycling to look better than everything else, why has he written so much about the troubles in that sport?

    He just wants fair and honest participants and administrators and whenever he points out any shortcomings in either respect, he's accused of having an agenda.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭ Heres Johnny


    It's just gaa season so it's topical and he goes after it. When rugby season is on he goes after it too. He's a great writer but he is a moan. Seems bitter, if he could write a positive story I would read him all day


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ Poor_old_gill


    He's not making these stories up though is he.

    If he wants cycling to look better than everything else, why has he written so much about the troubles in that sport?

    He just wants fair and honest participants and administrators and whenever he points out any shortcomings in either respect, he's accused of having an agenda.


    He has banged the drum about doping in rugby and GAA for a couple of years now- with little or nothing to back it up.


    He has an agenda and a very clear one- he is shown up his own sport and now he wants to engage in whataboutery. He's an out and out crank.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭ largepants


    Is it not about time someone took the GAA to task? They are like a mafia.

    I went through a disciplinary issue with my county board. Despite having witnesses (the opposition included) to back up my story I still received a suspension. To this day I categorically deny what was in the referee's report. Basically he lied and was believed.

    So I've no problem with Kimmage's crusade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,056 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    He has banged the drum about doping in rugby and GAA for a couple of years now- with little or nothing to back it up.

    Would you call former French international, Laurent Benezech's claims that growth hormone and corticoids are rampant in the sport as little or nothing?
    Or the director of the French anti-doping agency who said that they were seeing more failed tests from rugby players than any other sport?

    People hate Kimmage because he reveals the ugly truth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ clint_silver


    largepants wrote: »
    Is it not about time someone took the GAA to task? They are like a mafia.

    I went through a disciplinary issue with my county board. Despite having witnesses (the opposition included) to back up my story I still received a suspension. To this day I categorically deny what was in the referee's report. Basically he lied and was believed.

    So I've no problem with Kimmage's crusade.



    Who would you want them to be accountable to though? Whats the end goal in putting names in the paper here of volunteers? Whats that going to achieve.
    If anyone ever feels hard done by theres appeals processes all the way to croke park and beyond. And even if those are exhausted, what more do you want to happen? Where do you want it go? Im asking same question of the kimmage article, other then selling newspapers I dont know what he wants to happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ clint_silver


    Would you call former French international, Laurent Benezech's claims that growth hormone and corticoids are rampant in the sport as little or nothing?
    Or the director of the French anti-doping agency who said that they were seeing more failed tests from rugby players than any other sport?

    People hate Kimmage because he reveals the ugly truth.

    With doping theres a straight answer.

    His series of articles here all finish the same way with questions akin to "wont someone think of the poor children". No alternate view. Nothing to suggest what should happen. Lazy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,056 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Who would you want them to be accountable to though? Whats the end goal in putting names in the paper here of volunteers? Whats that going to achieve. If anyone ever feels hard done by theres appeals processes all the way to croke park and beyond. And even if those are exhausted, what more do you want to happen? Where do you want it go? Im asking same question of the kimmage article, other then selling newspapers I dont know what he wants to happen.

    But the processes weren't followed in the athenry story. The club went public (locally).

    In the 2nd, top brass got involved and then refused to comment about a court ordered payment to an individual being paid for by the organization.

    Kimmage is trying to create public awareness thus encouraging the organisations to be correct and consistent in their dealings.

    Is this not the ethos of being a journalist?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,056 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    His series of articles here all finish the same way with questions akin to "wont someone think of the poor children". No alternate view. Nothing to suggest what should happen. Lazy.

    Check out the recording of when Luke Fitzgerald challenged him on doing in rugby if you want to see both an alternative view and an example of lazy arguments.

    Also, I know people use the "won't someone think of the children" like some laughable Helen Lovejoy type faux outrage but here's Paul's point.
    Clean competitors are being denied their rewards because of cheats.
    Athletes are putting their health at risk with severe doping.
    We, the fans are being lied to.

    Why would anyone suggest any of these points should be acceptable?


  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭ largepants


    Who would you want them to be accountable to though? Whats the end goal in putting names in the paper here of volunteers? Whats that going to achieve.
    If anyone ever feels hard done by theres appeals processes all the way to croke park and beyond. And even if those are exhausted, what more do you want to happen? Where do you want it go? Im asking same question of the kimmage article, other then selling newspapers I dont know what he wants to happen.

    In my own instance I did appeal. No change in the decision. It's only then that I realised I was banging my head off a brick wall. Why should the referee's word be sacrosanct despite evidence to the contrary? I have also witnessed an disciplinary process where their own stringent procedures had not been adhered to. When it was pointed out to them it was ignored. Can I ask whats the end goal for the GAA when it comes to failing their own volunteers? I could never see myself having the appetite to get involved again.

    There is no openness or transparency within the organisation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ dk1982


    He has banged the drum about doping in rugby and GAA for a couple of years now- with little or nothing to back it up.


    He has an agenda and a very clear one- he is shown up his own sport and now he wants to engage in whataboutery. He's an out and out crank.

    Please explain why he would have an agenda against the GAA or rugby? You'll probably have to remove your head from the sand first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ clint_silver


    Check out the recording of when Luke Fitzgerald challenged him on doing in rugby if you want to see both an alternative view and an example of lazy arguments.

    Also, I know people use the "won't someone think of the children" like some laughable Helen Lovejoy type faux outrage but here's Paul's point.
    Clean competitors are being denied their rewards because of cheats.
    Athletes are putting their health at risk with severe doping.
    We, the fans are being lied to.

    Why would anyone suggest any of these points should be acceptable?

    The drugs cheating is there for all sports in all codes to be dealt with.

    If kimmage was going after that, then sure. But what he's going after here is different. He's attacking how situations are playing out and asking for some sort of higher authority when there already is.


    Every club and county in the country are dealing with literally hundreds of incidents with multi varied reasons how and why they happen. Do they all go the way they should, absolutely not, but thats not to say they arent investigated.

    Take the latest article, about the wallace incident. There was a melee, emotions running high, Wallace caught on camera being naughty, got a suspension. What does Kimmage want here? Accountability from whom? The GAA members? The processes and procedures in place to deal with it. If members feel theyre substandard and situations like Wallaces should be dealt with harsher then that can happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭ Hurrache


    He's right on this though isn't he. The usual form of defence for any issues he raises about GAA policies is attack rather than confront the issues. And like night follows day, the first response or two usually try deflect to cycling. As if that's somehow relevant to GAA?!?

    This thread is a prime example, they've managed to deflect the issue to being about Kimmage rather than the GAA's shortcomings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,707 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Hurrache wrote: »
    He's right on this though isn't he. The usual form of defence for any issues he raises about GAA policies is attack rather than confront the issues. And like night follows day, the first response or two usually try deflect to cycling. As if that's somehow relevant to GAA?!?

    This thread is a prime example, they've managed to deflect the issue to being about Kimmage rather than the GAA's shortcomings.

    100%.

    He is right about GAA and rugby, whether people want to acknowledge it or not. Doping has to be rife. Same with top level soccer.

    I wupdnt say he is doing it to try to make cycling less corrupt looking, he is just anti-PED, no matter what sport it's in.

    I say fair play to him, everyone else is just ignoring the obvious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ Poor_old_gill


    Who would you want them to be accountable to though? Whats the end goal in putting names in the paper here of volunteers? Whats that going to achieve.
    If anyone ever feels hard done by theres appeals processes all the way to croke park and beyond. And even if those are exhausted, what more do you want to happen? Where do you want it go? Im asking same question of the kimmage article, other then selling newspapers I dont know what he wants to happen.

    I look forward to all his future articles name checking the problems in French rugby only- I’d be happy with that


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ shockframe


    These articles from Kimmage seem all over the place. Disgruntled parent upset that their son isn't getting a game is hardly wikileaks stuff.


    Writing for the independent is also a factor here. Probably the most rabid anti-gaa paper out there. Every week there's something the organization does that annoys them. I expect these articles to be dished out 15-20 times from here to Christmas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,827 ✭✭✭ mosstin


    I look forward to all his future articles name checking the problems in French rugby only- I’d be happy with that

    So if he highlights a problem in GAA, you're not happy with it or him.
    You then openly hope he writes about problems in rugby.
    You don't see the hypocrisy there.
    You're a strange one.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,775 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Keano


    shockframe wrote: »
    These articles from Kimmage seem all over the place. Disgruntled parent upset that their son isn't getting a game is hardly wikileaks stuff.


    Writing for the independent is also a factor here. Probably the most rabid anti-gaa paper out there. Every week there's something the organization does that annoys them. I expect these articles to be dished out 15-20 times from here to Christmas.
    Disgruntled parent, did you even read his original article? I doubt it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ Poor_old_gill


    mosstin wrote: »
    So if he highlights a problem in GAA, you're not happy with it or him.
    You then openly hope he writes about problems in rugby.
    You don't see the hypocrisy there.
    You're a strange one.


    I dont think you have understood anything that has been said here.


    He writes articles in a pointlessly aggressive attempt to be edgy- he is showing up some issues within the GAA and thats useful but things take time to get sorted out and his attempts to attach himself (disinegenuously) to a cause within the Association is nothing but self serving nonsense.


    On the rugby- I was clearly being sarcastic.
    He has continually commented about doping problems in GAA & Rugby yet he has little or no evidence- someone mentioned issues in French rugby- and I said fine then let him report on French rugby.


    Kimmage logic- theres an issue in French rugby so all rugby is rotten/ it's raining in Dublin so must be raining in Paris


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,827 ✭✭✭ mosstin


    I dont think you have understood anything that has been said here.


    He writes articles in a pointlessly aggressive attempt to be edgy- he is showing up some issues within the GAA and thats useful but things take time to get sorted out and his attempts to attach himself (disinegenuously) to a cause within the Association is nothing but self serving nonsense.


    On the rugby- I was clearly being sarcastic.
    He has continually commented about doping problems in GAA & Rugby yet he has little or no evidence- someone mentioned issues in French rugby- and I said fine then let him report on French rugby.


    Kimmage logic- theres an issue in French rugby so all rugby is rotten/ it's raining in Dublin so must be raining in Paris

    Believe me, I understand everything that's being said.

    "Things take time to get sorted out." That sums up your defence for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,056 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Kimmage logic- theres an issue in French rugby so all rugby is rotten/ it's raining in Dublin so must be raining in Paris

    I think you're posting here with little understanding of anything really.

    Kimmages style, his motivation, the role of journalism.

    Let me guess, Ewan Mackenna is similarly motivated for selfish reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,502 ✭✭✭✭ The_Kew_Tour


    Kimmage comes from (and loves) a sport that is synonimus with corruption and is probably teh dirtiest sport in the world- he is and will continue to take swipes at all and sundry on his quest to expose other sports and thus, in some relative way, restor some credibility to cycling

    BS.

    Is that why he exposed Cycling and continues to do so?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭ mloc123


    Kimmage logic- theres an issue in French rugby so all rugby is rotten/ it's raining in Dublin so must be raining in Paris

    Or, there is a PED issue in French rugby yet Irish teams are able to compete against and beat French teams. This does not raise any suspicion with you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ ProudDUB


    Would you call former French international, Laurent Benezech's claims that growth hormone and corticoids are rampant in the sport as little or nothing?
    Or the director of the French anti-doping agency who said that they were seeing more failed tests from rugby players than any other sport?

    People hate Kimmage because he reveals the ugly truth.

    And that has precisely what exactly, to do with his latest crusade for truth and justice?

    Sweet eff all if you ask me.

    I used to be a big admirer of his. It took balls of steel to do what he did in standing up to the powers that be in the cycling world. But it seems that he is now looking for more and more cycling-esque bogey men in the world of GAA, that will garner him the same attention, professional kudos and sense of satisfaction from righting serious wrongs, that he got from his cycling exposes. God knows the GAA is far from perfect, but we are not even comparing apple to oranges here. We are comparing dinosasaur eggs to jelly babies.

    The Offaly manager was suspended for 2 months, for his misdemenours down in Kerry. He was then fired by the Offaly Co Board and will probably find it hard to get another gig. Now, whether he was fired for losing their first round game, or fired because his suspension meant he could't do his job properly, or a combination of both, he was still fired. So no one can really say the man got off scott free. He didn't, which Kimmage seems to imply he did. The GAA disciplinary process is a bit of a shambles and in need of a radical rehaul. No one is denying that. But Kimmage's outrage seems a bit misplaced imo. His bull in a china shop approach to the GAA in his articles seems to be getting peoples backs up, instead of instilling a real appetite for change, which all truly great journalists can do. That is a shame, as his talent is undoubted. His approach is rubbish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ Poor_old_gill


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Or, there is a PED issue in French rugby yet Irish teams are able to compete against and beat French teams. This does not raise any suspicion with you?

    I’ll work on the assumption that you don’t watch how the game is played in each country.
    For reference - French rugby is all about bulk and physically hammering teams.
    Irish rugby is about high skill levels- we have acccepted that we don’t genetically have the bulk so we do it differently


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,056 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    ProudDUB wrote:
    The Offaly manager was suspended for 2 months, for his misdemenours down in Kerry. He was then fired by the Offaly Co Board and will probably find it hard to get another gig. Now, whether he was fired for losing their first round game, or fired because his suspension meant he could't do his job properly, or a combination of both...you can't really say the man got off scott free. He didn't, which Kimmage seems to imply he did. The GAA disciplinary process is a bit of a shambles and in need of a radical rehaul. No one is denying that. But Kimmage's outrage seems a bit misplaced imo.

    What Kimmage is outraged about (I think) is Wallace's apparent dismissal of the idea that striking someone and receiving a suspension for 2 months was a justifiable reason for him losing his managers job.

    Kimmage deplores selfish underhand behavior (as he sees it) whether in Athenry, Dublin, Offaly, rugby, cycling, soccer.

    He is entirely consistent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,056 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    I’ll work on the assumption that you don’t watch how the game is played in each country. For reference - French rugby is all about bulk and physically hammering teams. Irish rugby is about high skill levels- we have acccepted that we don’t genetically have the bulk so we do it differently

    Have you a tank of oxygen and a tube allowing you to breathe with your head in the sand or can you just hold your breath for a really really really long time.

    How do you watch games from down there?

    FYI, in the 2015 six nations, Ireland had the second highest combined team weight at 1533kg. 20kg greater than France who were 4th. Wales were first.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭ d'Oracle



    His series of articles here all finish the same way with questions akin to "wont someone think of the poor children". No alternate view. Nothing to suggest what should happen. Lazy.

    That's not what Journalism is. Nobody reads the sports section to find the solutions to problems in the GAA.

    I mean what you doing is the equivalent of the stupid middle management knob who says "I hear you are talking about problems, I only want to hear about solutions"..

    Not having a solution to a problem doesn't mean you can't point out a problem.
    It is far easier to ignore a problem or attack the person who points out the problem, than to point out a problem.


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