Kimmage at it again

d'Oracle

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Kimmage comes from (and loves) a sport that is synonimus with corruption and is probably teh dirtiest sport in the world- he is and will continue to take swipes at all and sundry on his quest to expose other sports and thus, in some relative way, restor some credibility to cycling

There are very few journalists who have done more to damage the credibility of professional cycling than Paul Kimmage.

LionelNashe

Tell me how wrote: »

I think you're posting here with little understanding of anything really.

Kimmages style, his motivation, the role of journalism.

Let me guess, Ewan Mackenna is similarly motivated for selfish reasons.

McKenna is a sensationalist twerp. He'll misrepresent stuff to attack whoever's he's attacking. I haven't seen Kimmage doing the same.

clint_silver

Tell me how wrote: »

What Kimmage is outraged about (I think) is Wallace's apparent dismissal of the idea that striking someone and receiving a suspension for 2 months was a justifiable reason for him losing his managers job.

Kimmage deplores selfish underhand behavior (as he sees it) whether in Athenry, Dublin, Offaly, rugby, cycling, soccer.

He is entirely consistent.

I can run with that as it sounds reasonable. But thats a "man feels hard done by in sport" story that every sport has.

Kimmage is looking for answers from the GAA for this when they dont have to give it.

Not having a solution to a problem doesn't mean you can't point out a problem.
It is far easier to ignore a problem or attack the person who points out the problem, than to point out a problem.

Ok, I get that. But whats Kimmages actual problem that he's highlighting let alone the lack of a solution to one.

Something came up. They dealt with it. The GAA probably wish it could have been dealt with differently, had outcomes that made everyone happy or at least accept, but life and certainly sport, is not about that.

But its not endemic cheating. Not something thats rotten in the organisation.

DJIMI TRARORE

One of the best journalist out there at the moment

ohnonotgmail

d'Oracle wrote: »

There are very few journalists who have done more to damage the credibility of professional cycling than Paul Kimmage.

Professional cycling managed that all on its own. He just told the world what was happening.

ProudDUB

Tell me how wrote: »

What Kimmage is outraged about (I think) is Wallace's apparent dismissal of the idea that striking someone and receiving a suspension for 2 months was a justifiable reason for him losing his managers job.

Kimmage deplores selfish underhand behavior (as he sees it) whether in Athenry, Dublin, Offaly, rugby, cycling, soccer.

He is entirely consistent.

So one man is a dick? Agreed?

He was suspended by the GAA and fired by the Offaly Co Board.

The GAA did what they were supposed to do. The man in question is just a dick. By all means, expose him for what he is. But it's hardly the best example of corruption/tolerance of wrong doing within in the GAA itself, is it?

d'Oracle

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Professional cycling managed that all on its own. He just told the world what was happening.

Yep. That is what journalism is though.
If nobody talked about it, they would have better credibility, because credibility is really just how trustworthy the majority of people think the sport is.

d'Oracle

clint_silver wrote: »

I can run with that as it sounds reasonable. But thats a "man feels hard done by in sport" story that every sport has.

Kimmage is looking for answers from the GAA for this when they dont have to give it.



Ok, I get that. But whats Kimmages actual problem that he's highlighting let alone the lack of a solution to one.

Something came up. They dealt with it. The GAA probably wish it could have been dealt with differently, had outcomes that made everyone happy or at least accept, but life and certainly sport, is not about that.

But its not endemic cheating. Not something thats rotten in the organisation.

I mean there is a logical jump that would win a medal in the middle of the article, I'll give you that. Its hard to see that jump on the site because they covered it in a video of Wallace sucker punching a lad. (The indo will continue to be the indo) I think Wallace got off lightly though. Which is probably what has Kimmage off on one.

I think his point is if Wallace can more or less get away with it, which an 8 week suspension is to my mind, then it sends a ****ty message to young lads. I think is a little bit of stretch, but not so much as to make it unfair.

Tell me how

Joe Dog wrote: »

Kimmage was a doper himself in the past so clealry had some character flaws himself yet he takes a hoilier than thou approach to all the subject he writes about, he was a great journalist but to be honest he's turned into a complete crank in recent years.

He hasn't denied that he doped. But, to be fair to him, he stepped out rather than step up in terms of the level of doping required to be competitive. and he did so quickly.

He hits out at the culture of both the governing bodies, the team owners and bosses, the media and the public who condone such behaviour by accepting cheats because "They are all at it".

He admits himself to being a crank, to being hard to get on with but he still writes truthful stories about bad practices.

I don't understand why people have a problem with him shining a light on bad practices.

Joe Dog

Tell me how wrote: »

What Kimmage is outraged about (I think) is Wallace's apparent dismissal of the idea that striking someone and receiving a suspension for 2 months was a justifiable reason for him losing his managers job.

Kimmage deplores selfish underhand behavior (as he sees it) whether in Athenry, Dublin, Offaly, rugby, cycling, soccer.

He is entirely consistent.

Hardly a big deal.People not wanting to admit they were wrong is not a national scandal it's just basic human nature.

Wallace was banned for 2 months and lost his job as Offaly manager.I would say that is a not exactly a situation where somebody got away unpunished.The headline in the newspaper yesterday was Why is there no accountability in the GAA which give sthe idea that Wallace wasn't punished when he actually was.


Kimmage was a doper himself in the past so clearly had some character flaws himself yet he takes a hoilier than thou approach to all the subjects he writes about, he was a great journalist but to be honest he's turned into a complete crank in recent years.He expect ridiculous standards from the subjects he covered standards which he failed to reach himself, he may be right to point out a lot of the stuff but it hard sometimes to listen to him considering he's such an unbelieveble hypocrite, he also tends to make mountians out of molehills.

dk1982

ProudDUB wrote: »

And that has precisely what exactly, to do with his latest crusade for truth and justice?

Sweet eff all if you ask me.

I used to be a big admirer of his. It took balls of steel to do what he did in standing up to the powers that be in the cycling world. But it seems that he is now looking for more and more cycling-esque bogey men in the world of GAA, that will garner him the same attention, professional kudos and sense of satisfaction from righting serious wrongs, that he got from his cycling exposes. God knows the GAA is far from perfect, but we are not even comparing apple to oranges here. We are comparing dinosasaur eggs to jelly babies.

The Offaly manager was suspended for 2 months, for his misdemenours down in Kerry. He was then fired by the Offaly Co Board and will probably find it hard to get another gig. Now, whether he was fired for losing their first round game, or fired because his suspension meant he could't do his job properly, or a combination of both, he was still fired. So no one can really say the man got off scott free. He didn't, which Kimmage seems to imply he did. The GAA disciplinary process is a bit of a shambles and in need of a radical rehaul. No one is denying that. But Kimmage's outrage seems a bit misplaced imo. His bull in a china shop approach to the GAA in his articles seems to be getting peoples backs up, instead of instilling a real appetite for change, which all truly great journalists can do. That is a shame, as his talent is undoubted. His approach is rubbish.

"I used to be a big admirer of his"...Translation: I used to be a big admirer of his and then he said something bad about Jim Gavin and the Dubs so now I dont like him anymore and he's just an angry man with a chip on his shoulder etc etc...

Joe Dog

dk1982 wrote: »

"I used to be a big admirer of his"...Translation: I used to be a big admirer of his and then he said something bad about Jim Gavin and the Dubs so now I dont like him anymore and he's just an angry man with a chip on his shoulder etc etc...

His criticisim of the Dubs for apparently being joyless was ridiculous in fairness.

ProudDUB

dk1982 wrote: »

"I used to be a big admirer of his"...Translation: I used to be a big admirer of his and then he said something bad about Jim Gavin and the Dubs so now I dont like him anymore and he's just an angry man with a chip on his shoulder etc etc...

Aren't you great craic altogether putting words in other peoples mouths that they never came remotely close to ever saying themselves. :rolleyes:

And Kimmage is the one with the chip on his shoulder?

What's next? My mother in laws third cousin twice removed is from Athenry and I have it in for him now for that also?

Felexicon

He's right in what he says though. There is no accountability in the GAA.

I went to Navan to watch Meath vs Tyrone on Saturday night. A great game that finished in a 1 point defeat to Meath after a missed call by the referee. Afterwards Andy McEntee was so enraged he felt it was acceptable to confront the referee in the middle of the pitch while having to be restrained by players. The officals had to be escorted from the pitch by members of An Garda. This is similar to the scenes we saw after the Tipperary vs Waterford game last week.

Neither management team will be held accountable for this. In fact nothing will happen at all.

If that happened in any other sport there would rightly be hefty fines/suspensions handed out but the GAA would have you believe it's just passion boiling over.

As for the Paul Kimmage article yesterday. He is not wrong in anything he says. What answers have been given to the parents of the kids that are unable to play in Athenry. What answers have been given to fee paying members as to why a 20k cheque was given to cover a court ordered payment against an individual? Why are the Offaly county board and Stephen Wallace so hesitant to give a clear reason as to why he was let go from his position when to outsiders it seems they had all the information before the Wicklow game?

blanch152

Felexicon wrote: »

He's right in what he says though. There is no accountability in the GAA.

I went to Navan to watch Meath vs Tyrone on Saturday night. A great game that finished in a 1 point defeat to Meath after a missed call by the referee. Afterwards Andy McEntee was so enraged he felt it was acceptable to confront the referee in the middle of the pitch while having to be restrained by players. The officals had to be escorted from the pitch by members of An Garda. This is similar to the scenes we saw after the Tipperary vs Waterford game last week.

Neither management team will be held accountable for this. In fact nothing will happen at all.

If that happened in any other sport there would rightly be hefty fines/suspensions handed out but the GAA would have you believe it's just passion boiling over.

As for the Paul Kimmage article yesterday. He is not wrong in anything he says. What answers have been given to the parents of the kids that are unable to play in Athenry. What answers have been given to fee paying members as to why a 20k cheque was given to cover a court ordered payment against an individual? Why are the Offaly county board and Stephen Wallace so hesitant to give a clear reason as to why he was let go from his position when to outsiders it seems they had all the information before the Wicklow game?

Unless your name is Diarmuid Connolly.

Felexicon

blanch152 wrote: »

Unless your name is Diarmuid Connolly.

I completely agree. There are consequences for players but no one else.

But if that is all you took from my post I think you are missing the bigger picture.

brocbrocach

blanch152 wrote: »

Unless your name is Diarmuid Connolly.

Oh, like the time he came from the stand and punched a player and the ref and opposition was persuaded to keep it quiet?

fullstop

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I look forward to all his future articles name checking the problems in French rugby only- I’d be happy with that

And Kimmage is the out and out crank?

howiya

He's tweeting @officialgaa this morning looking for answers to his piece about the club in Dublin. Does he really think he'll get a reply there?

Tell me how

howiya wrote:

He's tweeting @officialgaa this morning looking for answers to his piece about the club in Dublin. Does he really think he'll get a reply there?

He won't on Twitter but he's trying to illicit some form of a response due to public attention.

I suspect they will eventually try to placate him. They know he's like a dog with a bone.

howiya

Tell me how wrote: »

He won't on Twitter but he's trying to illicit some form of a response due to public attention.

I suspect they will eventually try to placate him. They know he's like a dog with a bone.

Out of the three pieces he's wrote this is the one I'd be most interesting in hearing answers on due to the involvement of Croke Park and money.

I don't however like him writing about what essentially are volunteers who for whatever reason thought they were doing the right thing at the time.

I don't think because you become a club chairman in your parish that you should be answerable to the likes of a national journalist like Paul Kimmage.

He affords anonymity to the Driver because he agrees with him but the club chairman's name is all over the Indo. Both are volunteers in their community.

At least in the case of this week's article, the inter county manager has already chosen to be in the public spotlight.

Felexicon

howiya wrote: »

Tell me how wrote: »

He won't on Twitter but he's trying to illicit some form of a response due to public attention.

I suspect they will eventually try to placate him. They know he's like a dog with a bone.

Out of the three pieces he's wrote this is the one I'd be most interesting in hearing answers on due to the involvement of Croke Park and money.

I don't however like him writing about what essentially are volunteers who for whatever reason thought they were doing the right thing at the time.

I don't think because you become a club chairman in your parish that you should be answerable to the likes of a national journalist like Paul Kimmage.

He affords anonymity to the Driver because he agrees with him but the club chairman's name is all over the Indo. Both are volunteers in their community.

At least in the case of this week's article, the inter county manager has already chosen to be in the public spotlight.

So would you feel the same for any individual who goes against a court ruling or is it purely because this is happening within the bubble of the GAA?

clint_silver

clint_silver wrote: »

With doping theres a straight answer.

His series of articles here all finish the same way with questions akin to "wont someone think of the poor children". No alternate view. Nothing to suggest what should happen. Lazy.

His job is to investigate and report, not give answers

howiya

Felexicon wrote: »

So would you feel the same for any individual who goes against a court ruling or is it purely because this is happening within the bubble of the GAA?

Let the courts deal with any breach of their rulings. If you read the article there is no record of the court case or what was actually agreed upon in court.

Surely any half decent journalist would have quoted from the records of the case.

Tell me how

howiya wrote:

Let the courts deal with any breach of their rulings. If you read the article there is no record of the court case or what was actually agreed upon in court.

I think the fact that there was a judgement from the courts means that all information is definitely in the public domain.

clint_silver

Deleted User wrote: »

His job is to investigate and report, not give answers

"theres deathly silence from the gaa as usual" or words to that effect.

which is not true, a lot of time and meetings were held behind closed doors dedicated to getting a resolution. Theyre private organisation matters, no need for them to be in public domain. Kimmage WANTS them in the public domain so he has something to write about. Why do they have to be in public domain?

Who said every matter arising in an organisation like the GAA needs to be in the public domain?

What happened to respect and privacy of the individual?

rosknight

I say fair play to Kimmage.


Is there one person on here that cannot resonate with the stories that he has brought to the fore?


Don’t tell me that there aren’t stories like this in other Clubs around the country. There are decent families lives ruined because of some of the "morons" that sit at the top table on their GAA Clubs. I believe Kimmage has only just started and if he wanted he could write a book with all the complaints/stories he has received at this stage. Let people not forget that these stories are real and members have been grossly affected by the consequences of same.


It is well time GAA Club’s started looking at the personnel that they have in place on their Executive Committees.


I am sorry to say (and I will probably get slated for this), that gone are the days when any “Joe Soap” can go for Chairman/Secretary of a GAA Club. With all the governance issues these days, you need people that have experience of these issues. Too often Chairperson/Secretary’s are caught out by saying the wrong thing and going off on a solo run to boost an ego.

howiya

Tell me how wrote: »

I think the fact that there was a judgement from the courts means that all information is definitely in the public domain.

Anywhere we can read this?

carter10

clint_silver wrote: »

"theres deathly silence from the gaa as usual" or words to that effect.

which is not true, a lot of time and meetings were held behind closed doors dedicated to getting a resolution. Theyre private organisation matters, no need for them to be in public domain. Kimmage WANTS them in the public domain so he has something to write about. Why do they have to be in public domain?

Who said every matter arising in an organisation like the GAA needs to be in the public domain?

What happened to respect and privacy of the individual?

Really? You're asking about respect and privacy of the individual- is that the same privacy he afforded the driver when making allegations in a public meeting?

Bonniedog

If Kimmage is that interested in the GAA, other than to attempt to damage it, then I am sure there is a club near him he could join. Although I wouldn't even wish that on Kilmacud :-)