Taking justice in your own hands

Grayson

Would I take justice into my own hands? Yes, but to be fair, justice is the name of my nob.

Grayson

weldoninhio wrote: »

How did old people survive 50 years ago?? Drive or die ffs.

Someone's been watching too much Vin Diesel.

TheAnalyst_

Hard man OP fantasising about his hard man antics.

Wanderer78

weldoninhio wrote:

You're fudging the question because you can't answer it. You want people that are unfit to drive to be allowed to drive because its, according to you, "drive or die".

weldoninhio wrote:

I'm asking what about 50 years ago when there were very few cars. You have refused to answer that.

Again, are our public transport systems adequate enough to deal with people's needs?

weldoninhio

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, are our public transport systems adequate enough to deal with people's needs?

Again, were they 50 years ago? I don't drive I get the bus everywhere. I get 4 buses a day Mon-Fri. I've never had any issues and I see plenty of elderly and infirm people using the bus every day.

catrionanic

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Completely agree, it can be a case of, drive or die

Or as is sometimes the case, they drive and people DO die.

Here is a case that was in the media recently of a man in a rural area who had an eye condition which banned him from driving, deciding to drive anyway - and killing a woman in the process: https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/postman-found-guilty-of-causing-death-of-elderly-woman-by-dangerous-driving-36701110.html

City or rural, able-bodied or not, the safety and well-being of other people on the road has to be valued more highly than your independence or your trip to the supermarket.

Sell the car, and use that and the money you’d pay in tax and maintenance and insurance to work out some sort of solution. Whether that be taxis, paying a teenager to do the shopping, or whatever else.

Social isolation is NEVER an excuse to put other peoples’ lives at risk.

weisses

weldoninhio wrote: »

Again, were they 50 years ago? I don't drive I get the bus everywhere. I get 4 buses a day Mon-Fri. I've never had any issues and I see plenty of elderly and infirm people using the bus every day.

You dont live rural so ?

I agree with the fact you need to be fit to drive,... but in a rural area elderly people do not have much choice other then a car.

There are no footpaths ... no bus, nearest shop is about an hours walk away, roads are NOT safe for pedestrians ...etc etc

Its not black and white ...

Grayson

weisses wrote: »

You dont live rural so ?

I agree with the fact you need to be fit to drive,... but in a rural area elderly people do not have much choice other then a car.

There are no footpaths ... no bus, nearest shop is about an hours walk away, roads are NOT safe for pedestrians ...etc etc

Its not black and white ...

But the answer is not to let unfit people drive.

In 10 years it may all be academic anyway with self driving cars.

weldoninhio

weisses wrote: »

You dont live rural so ?

I agree with the fact you need to be fit to drive,... but in a rural area elderly people do not have much choice other then a car.

There are no footpaths ... no bus, nearest shop is about an hours walk away, roads are NOT safe for pedestrians ...etc etc

Its not black and white ...

I'll ask again, I might get an answer this time. Wanderer was unable to. How did elderly in rural areas survive years ago when they didn't have cars??

Wanderer78

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'll ask again, I might get an answer this time. Wanderer was unable to. How did elderly in rural areas survive years ago when they didn't have cars??

again, this was in fact somewhat answered previously, our social structures were almost completely different 50 years ago, they simply cannot be compared

Graces7

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'll ask again, I might get an answer this time. Wanderer was unable to. How did elderly in rural areas survive years ago when they didn't have cars??

I explained clearly that families were less scattered and few old folk were left to cope alone as we are now. The family unit was more responsible and also neighbours would be locals not newcomers. For more real community than now

And they were more caring and responsible for old folk than society is now, especially in rural areas.

weisses

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'll ask again, I might get an answer this time. Wanderer was unable to. How did elderly in rural areas survive years ago when they didn't have cars??

Who said they didn't have cars ?

How was society constructed different then compared to today ? something that has an influence

Do you agree it is very difficult for an elderly person living in a rural area to go about without a car ?

weldoninhio

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, this was in fact somewhat answered previously, our social structures were almost completely different 50 years ago, they simply cannot be compared

Graces7 wrote: »

I explained clearly that families were less scattered and few old folk were left to cope alone as we are now. The family unit was more responsible and also neighbours would be locals not newcomers. For more real community than now

And they were more caring and responsible for old folk than society is now, especially in rural areas.

So hearsay and waffle. OK.

Ireland must have been like one big episode of The Waltons fifty years ago. :rolleyes:

valoren

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

While I realise people have a particular aversion to sexually based crimes, the one that really strikes me is the pitiful sentences handed out for death/serious injury by dangerous driving.

Obviously you never know until you're (God Forbid) in the actual situation but I feel quite strongly that if someone I loved was killed or seriously injured by someone and handed a ridiculously short sentence I'd be waiting for them in the long grass. I suppose two wrongs don't make a right but I don't think I'd be able to help myself.

Has this ever happened that we know of? Anyone else feel the same? Am I just as bas as the scumbags? Thoughts, comments etc.

By that logic shouldn't you be waiting for the judge instead?

Accidents happen.

Vigilante justice for accidents is not justice.

AtomicHorror

weldoninhio wrote: »

So hearsay and waffle. OK.

Ireland must have been like one big episode of The Waltons fifty years ago. :rolleyes:

Hearsay maybe, but I thought it was common knowledge and generally agreed by most that there are many emerging problems with the rural population and communities. The rural population is aging in demographic, dropping in numbers, and thinning out into ribbon developments rather than hubs. Rural services such as loss-making bus lines, Garda stations and post offices are closing. Local shops are closing as they struggle against large chains and shopping centres.

It all adds up to a lot of isolated people who rely on cars to live.

None of that is controversial as far as I know, but you seem determined to scoff and roll your eyes at anyone who alludes to it. What's your beef?

Raging_Ninja

weldoninhio wrote: »

Again, how did they do it rurally 50 years ago? There are more shopping options now than ever in the history of the state. What public transport systems were there in rural locations 50 years ago? Could elderly people simply walk to be in the company of others 50 years ago? Whats happened over the past 50 years thats impacted on their walking ability??

There were more local services 50 years ago. There was a post office in every village, a shop, a pub etc. Everything (or at least most things) would been within walking distance. Where there wasn't, often there would be a retailer who would drive around the area (this was the case up until the 90s anyways) and travelling banks.

But the road and communications infrastructure has improved vastly and cars have become more affordable, which means local services are cut or go out of business. It is a wildly different landscape today to what it was 50 years ago.

Samuel T. Cogley

valoren wrote: »

By that logic shouldn't you be waiting for the judge instead?

Accidents happen.

Vigilante justice for accidents is not justice.

Accidents are caused.

Sleepy

Being old and/or living in a rural area is no excuse for driving when you're incapable of doing so safely.

If you're too old to drive, or otherwise incapable of driving safely and can't find (or afford to pay) someone to drive you, you should be looking at moving to an area where there is sufficient public transport to meet your needs or perhaps at some of the assisted living developments around the country.

The lengths some people expect society to go to in order to sate their desire to live exactly where and how they want to live is mind-boggling.

Raging_Ninja

Graces7 wrote: »

weldoninhio wrote: »

I’ve done it before. Got assaulted, went to the police who were 100% useless.

Waited a few weeks and beat the guy to a bloody pulp.

Justice served.



As an aside, when I reported it to the Gardai I gave them the name and address of the guy who sucker head butted me, name and number of the manager in the nightclub who had the assault on dvd from the CCTV, names and numbers of bouncers who’d seen it happen and the names of about 5 witnesses who’d left their names numbers with the bouncer. He told me he’d look into it and get back to me. That was about 10+ years ago, still waiting to hear back.

Fighting crime with crime is appalling; and not even on the spur of the moment but planned and calculated .. That is not justice.

If people are not given justice by the police and courts, it is inevitable that they will take it for themselves. And who can blame them?

Gravelly

On the point lots of you are arguing about regarding how old people got around 50 years ago before cars were widespread - many travelled by horse and trap, a much safer method, as horses pretty much made their own way home. Even in my childhood 35-40 years ago, there were a few elderly people who still used a horse and trap to go shopping or to mass, and a fair number of farmers who used them for travelling to the creamery - some of those horses knew exactly where to go on any given day, they were the precursor to self-driving cars!

AudreyHepburn

I’m not and never was a fan of vigilante justice because it’s a concept too easy to abuse and innocent people are in danger of getting caught up in it.

We’d be much served by compelling the government to overhaul the justice system so that crime is adequately punished.

Graces7

Gravelly wrote: »

On the point lots of you are arguing about regarding how old people got around 50 years ago before cars were widespread - many travelled by horse and trap, a much safer method, as horses pretty much made their own way home. Even in my childhood 35-40 years ago, there were a few elderly people who still used a horse and trap to go shopping or to mass, and a fair number of farmers who used them for travelling to the creamery - some of those horses knew exactly where to go on any given day, they were the precursor to self-driving cars!

There are still some of those about. Met one in Kerry; old man, pony and trap.

When I was first in Ireland before my car arrived, a kind neighbour drove me to the shops. At around 10 mph... No problem on deep rural roads.

Graces7

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Hearsay maybe, but I thought it was common knowledge and generally agreed by most that there are many emerging problems with the rural population and communities. The rural population is aging in demographic, dropping in numbers, and thinning out into ribbon developments rather than hubs. Rural services such as loss-making bus lines, Garda stations and post offices are closing. Local shops are closing as they struggle against large chains and shopping centres.

It all adds up to a lot of isolated people who rely on cars to live.

None of that is controversial as far as I know, but you seem determined to scoff and roll your eyes at anyone who alludes to it. What's your beef?

Good question!

Graces7

Sleepy wrote: »

Being old and/or living in a rural area is no excuse for driving when you're incapable of doing so safely.

If you're too old to drive, or otherwise incapable of driving safely and can't find (or afford to pay) someone to drive you, you should be looking at moving to an area where there is sufficient public transport to meet your needs or perhaps at some of the assisted living developments around the country.

The lengths some people expect society to go to in order to sate their desire to live exactly where and how they want to live is mind-boggling.

Unkind,even insensitive..

Moving area costs in many ways. Far too much to expect of an old person who has lived in their village all their lives

Maybe think of adding practical resources to enable folk to stay in their homes. Rural transport... volunteers...

What you write epitomises so much

Graces7

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

If people are not given justice by the police and courts, it is inevitable that they will take it for themselves. And who can blame them?

They are becoming criminals. Period. As bad as the one who hurt them, or worse, because they are setting themselves up as judge and jury. Lawless.

Graces7

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’m not and never was a fan of vigilante justice because it’s a concept too easy to abuse and innocent people are in danger of getting caught up in it.

We’d be much served by compelling the government to overhaul the justice system so that crime is adequately punished.

Including punishing vigilantes

suicide_circus

If the state fails to deliver justice I wouldn't hold it against a citizen for achieving justice by their own means, so long as it is proportionate.

weldoninhio

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Hearsay maybe, but I thought it was common knowledge and generally agreed by most that there are many emerging problems with the rural population and communities. The rural population is aging in demographic, dropping in numbers, and thinning out into ribbon developments rather than hubs. Rural services such as loss-making bus lines, Garda stations and post offices are closing. Local shops are closing as they struggle against large chains and shopping centres.

It all adds up to a lot of isolated people who rely on cars to live.

None of that is controversial as far as I know, but you seem determined to scoff and roll your eyes at anyone who alludes to it. What's your beef?

My beef is people who are a danger to themselves and others, getting behind the wheel of a 2 tonne machine that is capable of killing someone and others making excuses for them. Silly thing to be worried about, eh?

weldoninhio

Graces7 wrote: »

They are becoming criminals. Period. As bad as the one who hurt them, or worse, because they are setting themselves up as judge and jury. Lawless.

As I stated, I'd given the Garda the assailants name and address, the contact details for the manager who had the assault on CCTV, the contact details for 2 bouncers who had witnessed it in person, as well as the contact details of 5 or more people who had seen it. He refused to do anything,

what should I have done??

Graces7

weldoninhio wrote: »

As I stated, I'd given the Garda the assailants name and address, the contact details for the manager who had the assault on CCTV, the contact details for 2 bouncers who had witnessed it in person, as well as the contact details of 5 or more people who had seen it. He refused to do anything,

what should I have done??

Not commit assault?