Pressure mounts on Kathleen Kennedy to step down as head of Lucas Film?

Greyfox

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are no rules, it's like all those saddos who cried that you can't have female Ghostbusters. Luke's progression made perfect sense, it may not be what some man children wanted but tonally it fit in with where the series went. As for saying they messed with the tone , SW always had humor and who cares if they changed the Jedi. It upsets some sad YouTubers but most liked the newer films.

They are not considered among the best, well unless you take Empire magazine lists seriously.

It's a beloved franchise but that doesn't mean that it's a good one, after all at this stage there are more bad SW films than good ones and even the first one is little more than a shoddy knock off of a dozen others.

Ghostbusters was a remake though, SW is continuing the story with some of the same characters. Guess i just disagree with Luke, thought his progression went nowhere. Its a film made for sci/fi and action fans and if you paid to see the film your entitled to have an opinion on it. people have invested emotion in the franchise and are allowed to express there disappointment, nobody's forcing you to look at YouTube videos. The humour is very out of place and unfunny, it's funny in the original trilogy. sw fans care as there the centre of the sw universe, everything the Jedi were about is now muddled and unclear.

It's not just empire, in almost every best films ever list the first 2 feature high in it. Of course it's a good franchise, it's part of film history, the first is still a masterpiece. There's WAY more good ones, for me 5 are excellent films and the rest are worth watching twice.

Bowlardo

I think she should step down.
I liked solo it was a solid film . Some very **** bits but overall decent entertainment.
If she is still around for episode 9 there it will be some horror show. To be honest I think it will be anyway. There is no way you can the **** storm around the was TLJ . It was absolute pure and utter dog ****.

conorhal

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To be fair, some guy who knows Mark Hamill’s son said they should. Financial success, critical acclaim and generally positive audience reception (by standard industry metrics) are secondary considerations.

Solo is a flop that will be lucky to make it's bank back. A flop in and ever downward trajectory for a property that sells itself. That's not financial success, it's frankly mismanagement.

Making one movie for the price of two and losing money into the bargain is ample reason for Kennedy to lose her job, the fact that this is the second time in 4 movies she's managed to do this is even more reason. Never mind poisoning the well of the fanbase.

Disney has themeparks to open, she'll be gone before they do because that more than anything matters to Disney.

conorhal

pixelburp wrote: »

I think Darko has a point though when he made the devils advocate argument that Disney / Kennedy deserve some credit; they effectively recognised something wasn't working, a mistake was made and a pretty solid response taken to rectify & recover a lame duck production. At another studio the theatrical release would have been a hot mess. We've seen that countless times before

Sure, hiring Lord and Miller was itself a terrible decision, but rather than try to save the film with half assed reshoots & editing, they got Ron Howard, of all people, to basically save the film (even if I didn't think the final result was great, it could have been MUCH worse - Fantastic Four reboot worse for instance). Credit were its due, how many of us have the nerve to tear something up at the 11th hour and start again? I daresay most would just try to muddle through and hope for the best...

If you crash a friends car into a tree but happen to be a mechanic that reckons you can at least make it road worthy again you hardly deserve a pat on the back.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, they appeal to older cinema-goers too but Lucas made a film for 12-year-old boys, not for their 40 year old dads.

So all the bland political stuff about trade negotiations in the prequels were aimed at 12 year olds? Didn’t know that was a typical interest of children.

pixelburp

conorhal wrote: »

If you crash a friends car into a tree but happen to be a mechanic that reckons you can at least make it road worthy again you hardly deserve a pat on the back.

That analogy hardly tracks, and given we're talking about managerial decisions (albeit from an executive level), they're easily relatable back to more everyday large, managed projects you might work on in an office.

Hell I've read countless articles about crisis management when working on projects (I work in software development) - particularly when it's clear a feature / product is irredeemably broken. The consensus tends to lean towards: don't be afraid to junk all that good work and start again. That in the long run it's a better decision than trying to patch up a bad build and hoping for the best.

The instinct is to try and make the completed material work, but as mentioned it's not like Hollywood doesn't have ample examples of this kind of behaviour backfiring, with the previous case of the Fantastic Four reboot by Josh Trank particularly apt. Trank was a total disaster yet rather than accepting a bad decision made in good faith (same with Lord & Miller during the production of Solo), the studio stubbornly moved on, made shoddy reshoots and the result was still a disaster.

FunLover18

Greyfox wrote: »

It's not that they think they own the series it's the fact that the Disney have an obligation to respect the source material and if fans feel Disney failed to do this they have every right to complain and it's very clear that TLJ did a number of things differently.

I'm reminded of Neil Gaiman's blog directed at the GoT fan complaining about the lack of progress on the next book; "George RR Martin is not your bitch".

Disney don't owe you anything, they don't owe the fans anything. There is always an element of Goodwill between Creator and fan but there is no contract and if a "fan" suddenly decides they don't like the output then tough. Cherish the original content you liked and move on. You can complain and whinge ask for people to step down but Disney or any Creator is under no obligation to listen and won't as long as they continue to make money.

Also, in a general aside, if you are going to complain and moan, do it respectfully. Kelly Marie Tran who played Rose in TLJ has recently quit Instagram due to harassment from supposed SW fans. Some of the stuff that people justify with fandom is shameful.

SimonTemplar

FunLover18 wrote: »

Also, in a general aside, if you are going to complain and moan, do it respectfully. Kelly Marie Tran who played Rose in TLJ has recently quit Instagram due to harassment from supposed SW fans. Some of the stuff that people justify with fandom is shameful.

I agree entirely. I was watching a few review / analysis videos on Youtube about The Last Jedi from channels I regularly visit. I noticed another one on my recommended list from someone I didn't know so I decided to give it a shot. Within a few moments, he was complaining about the "fat Asian b*tch" as he put it.

I have a lot of issues with the Finn/Rose subplot but Kelly Marie Tran isn't one of them. I thought she did a pretty good job with the material she was given. The writing is the real issue. That kind of sexist racist crap has no place in any fandom.

Inviere

FunLover18 wrote: »

Kelly Marie Tran who played Rose in TLJ has recently quit Instagram due to harassment from supposed SW fans.

Dreadful carry on. What a toxic fanbase Star Wars has at times.

johnny_ultimate

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I thought she did a pretty good job with the material she was given.

While it took me a second viewing for some of my thoughts on TLJ to really settle, that wasn't necessary with Tran's performance. Of all the newbies... outside Adam Driver's obviously more complex performance... she's the strongest of the bunch. She brought an incredible amount of enthusiasm and energy to the film that really suited the tone of the material. An extremely welcome addition.

As for the social media trolls, bullies and bigots - who I can only hope and assume are a loud, irritating minority among those who disliked the film - I hope Star Wars continues to be a source of misery for them, because they deserve nothing less

pitifulgod

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

Isn't it very easy in 2018 to write off any criticism of a woman in power by men as sexist? Very easy. Almost discussion stiflingly easy.

Well, since the woman in question is making a massive profit for the Studio overall, it seems like the user is reaching.

Snake Plisken wrote: »

So here is another youtuber now wait before you attack me Jeremy Jahns is a 30 something film reviewer who gives a balanced analysis on the whole Star Wars fans vs Disney. Worth a watch it is interesting the little clip he shows of Kathleen Kennedy talking at the handover from Lucas. Also the quote from Lucas saying he was fed up of being shouted at all the time by fanboys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35aEjj8C4Cg

Overall, she has made substantial profits so one film tanking doesn't outweigh the massive profits they've made. It's more a matter of a learning curve with the franchise. There's been 4 Star Wars films in recent years. 3 were critical successes and made large sums. But sure, angry youtube man wants her to resign. :pac:

Snake Plisken

pitifulgod wrote: »

Well, since the woman in question is making a massive profit for the Studio overall, it seems like the user is reaching.


Overall, she has made substantial profits so one film tanking doesn't outweigh the massive profits they've made. It's more a matter of a learning curve with the franchise. There's been 4 Star Wars films in recent years. 3 were critical successes and made large sums. But sure, angry youtube man wants her to resign. :pac:

So you didn't watch the video above! He doesn't want her to resign but gives a balanced view of the situation. But hey he is a YouTuber we can't be seen to watch that!

thegreengoblin

FunLover18 wrote: »

I'm reminded of Neil Gaiman's blog directed at the GoT fan complaining about the lack of progress on the next book; "George RR Martin is not your bitch".

Disney don't owe you anything, they don't owe the fans anything. There is always an element of Goodwill between Creator and fan but there is no contract and if a "fan" suddenly decides they don't like the output then tough. Cherish the original content you liked and move on. You can complain and whinge ask for people to step down but Disney or any Creator is under no obligation to listen and won't as long as they continue to make money.

Also, in a general aside, if you are going to complain and moan, do it respectfully. Kelly Marie Tran who played Rose in TLJ has recently quit Instagram due to harassment from supposed SW fans. Some of the stuff that people justify with fandom is shameful.

The whole thing is sickening. I see there's another row going on after Chuck Wendig hit back at the screaming fanboys although he may have ended up just stoking the flames. It's only going to get worse, sadly.

I genuinely scratch my head wondering where these people come from and how they've ended up this way. Put it like this: I will forever be thankful to George Lucas for what he's done. Yeah he made a mess of the prequels IMO but so what? They're just films. He didn't ruin my childhood, he made my childhood better and more enjoyable because of the fantastic films that he created.

pitifulgod

Snake Plisken wrote: »

So you didn't watch the video above! He doesn't want her to resign but gives a balanced view of the situation. But hey he is a YouTuber we can't be seen to watch that!

It's irrelevant since your entire thread is why she should resign...

thegreengoblin

Can't stop laughing at the title of this thread...it's hilarious :pac:

johnny_ultimate

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I genuinely scratch my head wondering where these people come from and how they've ended up this way. Put it like this: I will forever be thankful to George Lucas for what he's done. Yeah he made a mess of the prequels IMO but so what? They're just films. He didn't ruin my childhood, he made my childhood better and more enjoyable because of the fantastic films that he created.

You see, for most adults their childhood is in the past.

For some, it’s still the present, despite being several decades after the fact :pac:

Taytoland

How she is still in a job is bizarre. Disastrous Last Jedi and the box office flop in Solo means she must go. Drop the sjw nonsense and focus on great writing and characters.

Taytoland

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I loved The Last Jedi, I can't have been the only one?

It’s the best Star Wars film as far as I’m concerned (at least on par with Empire, but I personally prefer Johnson’s film), and I say that as earnestly and honestly as I possibly can

What on earth.... You can't be serious or lack Star Wars knowledge or respect for the lore.

Theboinkmaster

Taytoland wrote: »

How she is still in a job is bizarre. Disastrous Last Jedi and the box office flop in Solo means she must go. Drop the sjw nonsense and focus on great writing and characters.

Lads you're completely insane and ignorant.

She has spent the last 30 years consistently delivering and last month was the first Star Wars flop. Whatever you think about TLJ it made a lot of money.

One blip in a 30 year career isn't going to get her fired from Star Wars. A second one would though but I doubt that will happen with JJ in charge, safe enough pair of hands.

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote:

How she is still in a job is bizarre. Disastrous Last Jedi and the box office flop in Solo means she must go. Drop the sjw nonsense and focus on great writing and characters.

I know what you mean, the billion dollars or so profit she made on the back of TLJ is very poor.

tigger123

This is translating into 'They didn't make the film I wanted so she has to go and this guy on YouTube who used to walk her neighbours dog like totally agrees with me.'

There's a ban on these kind of threads in the Soccer forum. Any time there was a blip in form in (let's say) Man Utd, some Liverpool fan would start a thread that said "Who will be the next manager of Man Utd?". Mods banned them after a while.

FunLover18

Taytoland wrote: »

How she is still in a job is bizarre. Disastrous Last Jedi and the box office flop in Solo means she must go. Drop the sjw nonsense and focus on great writing and characters.

Interesting that you suggest they should ditch the "sjw nonsense" while declaring Solo a flop given that Solo is the first of the new SW films to feature the beloved white-male protagonist.

tigger123

FunLover18 wrote: »

Interesting that you suggest they should ditch the "sjw nonsense" while declaring Solo a flop given that Solo is the first of the new SW films to feature the beloved white-male protagonist.

Yeah ... but ... there was an uppity droid in there ... so ... SJW things.

Ipso

FunLover18 wrote: »

Interesting that you suggest they should ditch the "sjw nonsense" while declaring Solo a flop given that Solo is the first of the new SW films to feature the beloved white-male protagonist.

And the suggestion that Star Wars focus on great writing. If there’s one thing Star Wars is known for, it’s not the writing.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I know what you mean, the billion dollars or so profit she made on the back of TLJ is very poor.

While I think most of the anti-Kennedy crap spouted is pure misogyny, I feel people are being a bit sly in pointing to the profits made.

Profit is great only when it matches, or exceeds, expectation. Everything I have read would indicate that the past few films have failed to do this, I am ready to be corrected on this mind.
If that is true than there would be internal pressure which she will have to face (and perhaps by the repeated production issues) but nothing like what is directed her way by random Youtube/Twitter "influencers".

Again any pressure would be internal and not publicly advertised.

Arne_Saknussem

Deleted User wrote: »

While I think most of the anti-Kennedy crap spouted is pure crap, I feel people are being a bit sly in pointing to the profits made.

Profit is great only when it matches, or exceeds, expectation. Everything I have read would indicate that the past few films have failed to do this, I am ready to be corrected on this mind.
If that is true than there would be internal pressure which she will have to face (and perhaps by the repeated production issues) but nothing like what is directed her way by random Youtube/Twitter "influencers".

Again any pressure would be internal and not publicly advertised.

You're not wrong, TLJ was projected for $1.7bn and opened on target but had the biggest second week falloff in box office history to come in around at $1.3bn.

The graphs for the trilogy, standalones, toy sales & toy orders from manufacturers are all pointing sharply downwards, which is why i think Ep IX will continue the trend and be KK's last film as head of Lucasfilm.

nix

You could have a monkey doing her job and the episode Star wars movies would still make insane profit. The issue people really have with her (and im sure many other people) is there meddling/handling has negatively impacted and no doubt will greatly influence how things in the future will work in the Star wars universe.

But if money is what you want to focus on, TLJ did make alot, however it didn't make anywhere near as much as TFA. Which in my opinion is a result of how poorly they handled how things like how the force works and the time it takes to learn/master the ways of the force.

It went from years of training to a weekend in Ireland. Its a total slap in the face to all the movies before and the fans.

Its a movie for twelve year olds? ok whatever, but you could very easily have made a movie for twelve year olds and stayed true to the Star wars universe/fans. EASILY..

However i very much doubt Kathleen Kennedy will step down anytime soon, I predict at the very least she will get to work on the next movie (IX) which they will go back to playing safe and it will make a boat load on par or more than TFA and they will just tick TLJ off as a necessary learning curve to see how much **** the SW fanbase would lap up and affect their profits :pac:

faceman

Solo performed well below expectations and this prompted Disney to slash ticket sale forecasts which was reported to the markets. It’s not going to cause the downfall of anyone but may give Disney a rethink about the spin off movies.

If anything I can see the spin off movies becoming aimed at younger audiences.

It’s all about money and pleasing the stock market. Pleasing fans is secondary.

FWIW I thought The Last Jedi was the weakest SW film in the series. (Excluding prequels) But it performed well at the box office which is what it’s all about.

johnny_ultimate

nix wrote: »

But if money is what you want to focus on, TLJ did make alot, however it didn't make anywhere near as much as TFA.

If only there was precedent for a wildly successful Star Wars sequel making less money than its even more wildly successful predecessor... :pac: Indeed, it seems to be a rule that initial films in Star Wars trilogies make much more money than their successors! No surprise there at all TBH, given the unprecedented success of the original film and the huge anticipation that greeted Star Wars' return after more than a decade-long gap between VI and I and III and VII.

nix

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

If only there was precedent for a wildly successful Star Wars sequel making less money than its even more wildly successful predecessor... :pac: Indeed, it seems to be a rule that initial films in Star Wars trilogies make much more money than their successors! No surprise there at all TBH, given the unprecedented success of the original film and the huge anticipation that greeted Star Wars' return after more than a decade-long gap between VI and I and III and VII.

Yes i understand that, but i still believe TLJ should have done alot better than it did, considering TFA entire story was about searching for and locating Luke Skywalker, and everybody knew TLJ was going to star and focus greatly on Luke with how TFA ended.

A character nobody has seen return to the screen for over 30 years.. I'm aware we got that also in the prior movie with Solo and Chewie, but Luke was the main focus of the OT and a Jedi. So with that alone, TLJ should have been on par or ahead of TFA financially.