Pressure mounts on Kathleen Kennedy to step down as head of Lucas Film?

Relikk

Sad Professor wrote: »

Just on this point - as I've said before, the creative responsibility for this lies almost entirely at the feet of Abrams rather than Johnson. Abrams wrote Johnson into a corner and I honestly think there was no other way for Johnson to explain Luke's absence from TFA without either retconning TFA or coming up with some very convoluted explanation.

I disagree. There could have been a few ways to go. Research being one, research into his enemy, like Snoke. Then we could have known more about him. He also could have done a Yoda and gone into exile and waited for someone to come find him so he could train them (which is how it turned out, kind of), and sure, it's basically copying Empire doing it that way. Or he could have found more force sensitive people after he left and set up another Jedi academy on the island in secret, so he could mount a better challenge against the First Order. They could have teamed up with Rey and had a showdown with the Knights of Ren.

There was certainly not a "this is the only way I could write it" scenario available to Johnson, because the only person that gave any reason as to why he left in TFA was Han, when he said "people that knew him best think he went looking for the first Jedi Temple". The crawl just says Luke is missing. Again, no specific reason. There would be no retconning involved.

FunLover18

A casual fan who thinks TLJ is terrible claiming that it's easy to keep the fans satisfied?

The only thing Abrams set up was a load of mysteries he didn't have the answer to and wouldn't have to deal with (as far as he was concerned at the time he wasn't going to do another SW film). Johnson and several other people behind the scenes have said that when he came on board he had a blank slate to do what he wanted with what he had inherited. Snoke was heading down the road of Darth Sidious mark II and who cares about Rey's parents. As has been mentioned he was written into a corner re Luke and I think he came up with a perfectly reasonable explanation, that the fans didn't like. I don't understand why fans blame Johnson for a scenario that Abrams created. Also you say that fans are characterised as racist and misogynistic but a lot of them are, there's a reason that Ridley and Tran have been specifically targeted by fans off Instagram in the same way that when the new Ghostbusters came out, Leslie Jones got the brunt of the abuse. Not all fans of course for into this category but it's not some PR technique to dismiss criticism.

Sad Professor

Relikk wrote: »

I disagree. There could have been a few ways to go. Research being one, research into his enemy, like Snoke. Then we could have known more about him.

So Luke leaves the galaxy to plunge into darkness and abandons his friends to to be slaughtered by his former to pupil so he can go research Snoke? Nope, sorry, that doesn't work and would require a lot more detail to explain.

He also could have done a Yoda and gone into exile and waited for someone to come find him so he could train them (which is how it turned out, kind of), and sure, it's basically copying Empire doing it that way.

Yes, doing a Yoda is pretty much exactly what he did. Except what Yoda did, at least as explained in the prequels, doesn't make sense. Yoda and Obi-wan could have joined forces and taken on Vader and the Emperor themselves or died trying. Going to into hiding to wait for Luke, just Luke, to come of age was a ridiculous plan. Luke wasn't nearly as powerful as either of them were, especially without any training which the prequels suggested took a lifetime to attain. That there was a plan at all actually contradicts Yoda's reluctance to train Luke in TESB.

Now lets pretend that the prequels didn't happen. Why was Yoda on that planet? Because he was old, beaten and had given up. He wasn't strong enough to face Vader and the Emperor even before he went into hiding, and he didn't think Luke was strong enough either. He didn't think there was any good he could do. He wasn't waiting for Luke to turn up so he could train him. He didn't want to train anyone. So what was he doing there? Waiting to die, just like Luke in TLJ.

Or he could have found more force sensitive people after he left and set up another Jedi academy on the island in secret, so he could mount a better challenge against the First Order.

This still involves a Force-connected Luke chilling on an island while his friends are killed and the First Order gets stronger. This is the same Luke who abandoned his training in TESB, risking the fate of the galaxy, to go save his friends. So we're going from the spiritually broken Luke in TLJ to a ruthless, cold-hearted Luke prepared to sacrifice his friends to defeat Snoke in your scenario. Sure this could have worked, but it would have required a far bigger leap from fans than anything Johnson did.

Relikk

Sad Professor wrote: »

So Luke leaves the galaxy to plunge into darkness and abandons his friends to to be slaughtered by his former to pupil so he can go research Snoke? Nope, sorry, that doesn't work and would require a lot more detail to explain.

It's an option and hasn't written anyone into a corner. As with the detail needed, I don't see a problem. It'd be telling a deeper story. Especially considering what a mess that Canto Bight sequence was, it could have easily been replaced with more meaningful storytelling that TLJ lacks. It's something I would find more fascinating than what Johnson wrote, that's for sure.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Now lets pretend that the prequels didn't happen. Why was Yoda on that planet? Because he was old, beaten and had given up. He wasn't strong enough to face Vader and the Emperor even before he went into hiding, and he didn't think Luke was strong enough either. He didn't think there was any good he could do. He wasn't waiting for Luke to turn up so he could train him. He didn't want to train anyone. So what was he doing there? Waiting to die, just like Luke in TLJ.

Okay, so if you're discarding what we know about the prequels, where in ESB does Yoda say he had given up or that he was waiting to die on Dagobah? Or that he didn't want to train anyone? Yoda even says he's seen what Luke is like, he's been seeing him through the force as he grew up. He's absolutely been waiting for Luke to turn up.

Sad Professor

Relikk wrote: »

Okay, so if you're discarding what we know about the prequels, where in ESB does Yoda say he had given up or that he was waiting to die on Dagobah? Or that he didn't want to train anyone? Yoda even says he's seen what Luke is like, he's been seeing him through the force as he grew up. He's absolutely been waiting for Luke to turn up.

If he was waiting for Luke, why did Obi-wan have to convince him to train him? Yoda died not long after, so if he was waiting he was cutting it very tight. What if he had died before Luke came? The galaxy would have been screwed.

Yoda may have been watching Luke and held out some hope for him, but I don't see how he was waiting for him. Remember what he says before Luke takes off in TESB, "Told you did I, reckless is he! Now, matters are worse." He didn't want to train him because he thought he would end up like his father. In fact this attitude of not wanting to make matters worse sounds a lot like Luke in TLJ.

Relikk

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yoda may have been watching Luke and held out some hope for him, but I don't see how he was waiting for him.

I don't think Obi-Wan had to persuade him. There's nothing in the dialogue for me that would suggest it. He just reminds Yoda what he was like, and he turned out fine. He was waiting for Luke or Leia. Extending his life as long as he could so he could train them when they arrived.

"This one, a long time have I watched. All his life as he looked away. To the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. What he was doing. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things".

Slydice

Apparently there was a conference call and Grace got word about it.
As Marvel people were allowed to listen in, I'd say that might be where she got word about it:

Word seems to be that no-one wants the job

Slydice

Slydice wrote: »

Apparently there was a conference call and Grace got word about it.
As Marvel people were allowed to listen in, I'd say that might be where she got word about it:

Word seems to be that no-one wants the job

So we are to believe that a YouTuber whose views per video are under 100k has secret insight into how Disney runs it's business. Yeah, nothing to see here just more click bait nonsense from a youtuber desperate to boost their views.

Sad Professor

The origin of all this is Frank Marshall liking a tweet on Twitter that complemented his wife while being critical of Bob Iger, which this Youtube personality has spun into a bullsh*t story about conference calls and SJWs (the magic word).

These youtube channels are National Inquirer for geeks.

pixelburp

Can I just say: BWAHAHAHAHA. Oh god I 'love' the talking heads of YouTube; to be fair, at least you don't have to pick up the National Inquirer if you don't want it - whereas thanks to algorithms I get these gossip peddlers pushed into my 'recommended' every week or so. Or pop up here, passed off as insider info

Ok, I'll admit, looks like Solo was a bit of an underperformer, but dear GOD I swear people just want Star Wars to fail: like, there's an actual demographic of folks who have invested solid mental energies and wellbeing into ensuring Star Wars is dragged through the mud. The emperor of geek pop-culture has let his robe slip and folks have leapt; any weakness, any failure, any deference to social trends is pounced on with a relish that's kinda disturbing in its own way.

Arne_Saknussem

Deleted User wrote: »

So we are to believe that a YouTuber whose views per video are under 100k has secret insight into how Disney runs it's business. Yeah, nothing to see here just more click bait nonsense from a youtuber desperate to boost their views.

Nah it's more someone who wrote for & used to present a show for Marvel having contacts inside Marvel. Whether it's true or not is up for debate.

But what's not is Kennedy will be gone after Ep IX. She's turned an unstoppable franchise with huge momentum behind it to one that's latest film will have a box office loss in the 100s of millions, in 3 years.

Fysh

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Nah it's more someone who wrote for & used to present a show for Marvel having contacts inside Marvel. Whether it's true or not is up for debate.

But what's not is Kennedy will be gone after Ep IX. She's turned an unstoppable franchise with huge momentum behind it to one that's latest film will have a box office loss in the 100s of millions, in 3 years.

....because having "contacts" at Marvel magically means c-suite level accurate info about goings-on at Disney? Which she can then disseminate via self aggrandizing videos?

Pull the other one, it'll feel better (My awareness of Grace's videos is from the time when she was doing stuff for Bleeding Cool, and they were pretty spurious then - like much of the gossip-fixated stuff on BC and other such sites)

As for hundreds of millions of dollars of a loss... Speculate harder, why don't you? The only recent SW movie with a confirmed budget on Box office mojo is Rogue One, which is listed as $200M. Hard to imagine Solo being given more than that, and it's approaching $400M worldwide which will undoubtedly be disappointing but hardly a world-ending disaster. Last Jedi may have annoyed fans, but has also hit $1.3B worldwide so far.

Arne_Saknussem

Fysh wrote: »

....because having "contacts" at Marvel magically means c-suite level accurate info about goings-on at Disney? Which she can then disseminate via self aggrandizing videos?

Pull the other one, it'll feel better (My awareness of Grace's videos is from the time when she was doing stuff for Bleeding Cool, and they were pretty spurious then - like much of the gossip-fixated stuff on BC and other such sites)

As for hundreds of millions of dollars of a loss... Speculate harder, why don't you? The only recent SW movie with a confirmed budget on Box office mojo is Rogue One, which is listed as $200M. Hard to imagine Solo being given more than that, and it's approaching $400M worldwide which will undoubtedly be disappointing but hardly a world-ending disaster. Last Jedi may have annoyed fans, but has also hit $1.3B worldwide so far.

And ye shall know the idoits by the trail of broken strawmen I'm didn't say what she said was true, i said that painting her as a desperate know nothing Youtuber when she does know people inside Marvel was wide of the mark.


Budget for Solo was $125 but Forbes report with the reshoots it's production budget was "north of $250m". Advertising budget is normally equal of producion budget but because of the reshoots may have been less than the $125m.

Even at half that this film is losing a minimum $200m at a $400m gross, but probably over $300m.

Sad Professor

Does she know Mark Hamill's son as well? :P

Arne_Saknussem

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Nah it's more someone who wrote for & used to present a show for Marvel having contacts inside Marvel. Whether it's true or not is up for debate.

But what's not is Kennedy will be gone after Ep IX. She's turned an unstoppable franchise with huge momentum behind it to one that's latest film will have a box office loss in the 100s of millions, in 3 years.

I know someone who works in PR at Marvel but he can't provide me with any shocking insight into either Marvel or Disney. You do know that massive corporations such as Disney and Marvel aren't known for letting their dirty laundry be aired in public and released by random youtubers. They control their message and how they want it delivered.

Arne_Saknussem

Sad Professor wrote: »

Does she know Mark Hamill's son as well? :P

Are you referencing the guy quoted in the OP that has links to Lucasfilm and was actually featured in Rian Johnsons Last Jedi making of documentary?

Arne_Saknussem

Deleted User wrote: »

I know someone who works in PR at Marvel but he can't provide me with any shocking insight into either Marvel or Disney. You do know that massive corporations such as Disney and Marvel aren't known for letting their dirty laundry be aired in public and released by random youtubers. They control their message and how they want it delivered.

Again, i didn't say it was true. And also massive corporations do like to keep their dirty laundry in house when it suits but have also known to leak info when that suits them too.

Sad Professor

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Are you referencing the guy quoted in the OP that has links to Lucasfilm and was actually featured in Rian Johnsons Last Jedi making of documentary?

Links, huh? Bigger links than knowing Mark Hamill's son? And what was he doing in the documentary? Sitting in on a Lucasfilm meeting? Chatting to Kathleen Kennedy?

Also how come only Youtube personalities and dudes who met Mark Hamill's son get all these insider sources and not the trades?

Arne_Saknussem

Sad Professor wrote: »

Links, huh? Bigger links than knowing Mark Hamill's son? And what was he doing in the documentary? Sitting in on a Lucasfilm meeting? Chatting to Kathleen Kennedy?

Also how come only Youtube personalities and dudes who met Mark Hamill's son get all these insider sources and not the trades?

I know nothing about Mark Hamills son, you keep bringing him up. I do know he needs to know someone at Lucasfilm to get on the documentary though, and worked for Collider who have had many exclusive interviews with lots of Lucasfilm employees like Rian Johnson & Dave Filoni.

FunLover18

https://twitter.com/AzulaAr/status/1003351288111759361

Saw this doing the rounds on Twitter last night, the poor guy has less than a hundred followers and the reply:like ratio is off the scale but this level of petulant throwing toys of the pram (along with the campaign to remake The Last Jedi) is hilarious. The level of entitlement is staggering. I like the bit where it mentions "especially the lifelong fans" because kids now who are fans clearly aren't true fans as they didn't have the dedication to be born by the time the OT films were released.

Arne_Saknussem

FunLover18 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AzulaAr/status/1003351288111759361

Saw this doing the rounds on Twitter last night, the poor guy has less than a hundred followers and the reply:like ratio is off the scale but this level of petulant throwing toys of the pram (along with the campaign to remake The Last Jedi) is hilarious. The level of entitlement is staggering. I like the bit where it mentions "especially the lifelong fans" because kids now who are fans clearly aren't true fans as they didn't have the dedication to be born by the time the OT films were released.

What a moron

Sad Professor

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

I know nothing about Mark Hamills son, you keep bringing him up. I do know he needs to know someone at Lucasfilm to get on the documentary though, and worked for Collider who have had many exclusive interviews with lots of Lucasfilm employees like Rian Johnson & Dave Filoni.

Okay, so he's a journalist/blogger. Like lots of others in his profession, he probably know the PR rep and has interviewed some of the cast and crew. We already knew that. When you said "links" I assumed you meant he had sources in Lucasfilm that either give him insider knowledge or meant that he was expressing something that was also felt inside the company.

I mentioned Mark Hamill's son because he was previously cited as giving the guy's opinion that a studio executive should step down extra importance. The implication presumedly being that if this guy who met Mark Hamill's son is saying Kathleen Kennedy should go then Mark Hamill (who the Youtube commentators think is their ally) must feel the same way. Which is absurd.

Arne_Saknussem

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Again, i didn't say it was true. And also massive corporations do like to keep their dirty laundry in house when it suits but have also known to leak info when that suits them too.

If you want to leak something like this you give it to an established and known journalist not some sad random youtuber who can barely hit 90 thousand views a video. It's click bait trash, the kind of buzzword heavy crap that is designed to get self-entitled fanboys up in arms over nothing.

Arne_Saknussem

Sad Professor wrote: »

Okay, so he's a journalist/blogger. Like lots of others in his profession, he probably know the PR rep and has interviewed some of the cast and crew. We already knew that. When you said "links" I assumed you meant he had sources in Lucasfilm that either give him insider knowledge or meant that he was expressing something that was also felt inside the company.

I mentioned Mark Hamill's son because he was previously cited as giving the guy's opinion that a studio executive should step down extra importance. The implication presumedly being that if this guy who met Mark Hamill's son is saying Kathleen Kennedy should go then Mark Hamill (who the Youtube commentators think is their ally) must feel the same way. Which is absurd.

Perhaps he does know people who can give him the odd juicy tidbit, perhaps he doesn't. He'd probably know things before information got to the likes of you or me.

I think the reason people were talking about him having heard something with regards to that video was because having worked for Collider, World Premier VIP tickets etc everything he ever had to say about Lucasfilm was overwhelmingly positive. To the point where he was being referred to as the Lucasfilm uber shill.

He then does an about turn and says it's time for Kennedy to go, so people were putting 2 & 2 together.


No doubt there will be crisis meetings being held at Lucasfilm though, whatever the outcome.

Arne_Saknussem

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to leak something like this you give it to an established and known journalist not some sad random youtuber who can barely hit 90 thousand views a video. It's click bait trash, the kind of buzzword heavy crap that is designed to get self-entitled fanboys up in arms over nothing.

Again it depends on what you're leaking, if it's something positive you do without doubt.

If it's true there is a division among the old crew at Lucasfilm & Kennedy's people maybe you do give it to mid-tier Youtubers.

Or very possibly yes it is all made up. But for someone who was very much front and centre as the head of Lucasfilm before Last Jedi she's barely been seen or heard from since. I can't see her turning up at Celebration next year either, herself & Rian would get a mixed reception to say the least.

FunLover18

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Again it depends on what you're leaking, if it's something positive you do without doubt.

Why would they leak something negative? The only reason someone would leak something negative against the wishes of employer is four money surely, in which case you're still going to leak it to the bigger more established news outlets.

Arne_Saknussem

Arne_Saknussem wrote:

Again it depends on what you're leaking, if it's something positive you do without doubt.

That it does but this person who has this exclusive isn't even a lower tier YouTube personality. They are a nobody, seriously their video views are laughably low.

pixelburp

Maybe the reverse question is more apt here: when's the last time a 'non standard' outlet, such as a YouTube channel, has had the scoop on some piece of Hollywood pop culture? Honestly I'd be kinda surprised if this is was anything more than a rare occurrence.

Given the sheer signal to noise ratio of the medium, seems like giving your juicy piece of gossip to a YouTuber would be a quick way to have it lost in the void; blogs and online-print outlets, once they verified the news, would be more trusted and stand a better chance to get the news out there & believed.

Arne_Saknussem

FunLover18 wrote: »

Why would they leak something negative? The only reason someone would leak something negative against the wishes of employer is four money surely, in which case you're still going to leak it to the bigger more established news outlets.

Well there's a rumour Iger wants KK out but doesn't want to be the one to fire her.

silverharp

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe the reverse question is more apt here: when's the last time a 'non standard' outlet, such as a YouTube channel, has had the scoop on some piece of Hollywood pop culture? Honestly I'd be kinda surprised if this is was anything more than a rare occurrence.

Given the sheer signal to noise ratio of the medium, seems like giving your juicy piece of gossip to a YouTuber would be a quick way to have it lost in the void; blogs and online-print outlets, once they verified the news, would be more trusted and stand a better chance to get the news out there & believed.

it depends I guess, there are forums on the net where people on film sets are gossiping about whatever they are working on, caveat of pinch of salt