Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

PTH2009

Wins a win seems our intensity went down in the 2nd half

2 wins going into the Limerick match is what we wanted. The serious stuff starts now with 3 big challenges ahead in Limerick, Galway and Tipp

TheScoringGoal

KevIRL wrote: »

Disappointing performance overall, especially second half.

I'd agree. That performance won't win any more matches this year. I thought McNulty, Prunty, Jake and Bennett all did well but there was a few others who may have missed their chance to make a claim on a jersey. The one thing I would add though is that the pitch was very poor and that probably didn't suit some of them.

Disappointed for Mark Ó Brien as injury was the reason he came off.

Giveitfong

Waterford 3-18 Westmeath 1-15

This was a really poor game. A large part of the reason for this was the pitch. It looked okay from the stand, but once the game started it became apparent that it was very sticky, and once the ball hit the ground the players found it very difficult to get it up. This led to lots of rucks. Even when the ball was in the air the players (both sides) found it hard to hold onto it, suggesting that it picked up a lot of grease from the ground. The players also frequently found it hard to hold their footing.

Otherwise, the day was fine, if a bit cold, with a strong wind blowing from the town end. Waterford had first use of it, but it took them a long time to put their mark on the game. It took ten minutes for the first score to come, and when Stephen Bennett goaled from 20 metres from a Patrick Curran pass in the 18th minute, I expected the floodgates to open. However, this didn’t happen (at least until added time).

Part of the reason for this was Westmeath’s short puckout strategy, which made sense against the wind. They were quite good at working the ball out from the back and playing it over the Waterford half back line to their full forwards. However, the Waterford full backs were generally on top from start to finish.

Going into added time, Waterford were only six points ahead, and with a well-drilled Westmeath working hard, playing some nice hurling and getting the wind at their backs after the change of ends, it looked as though we might be in for a difficult second half.

Then, in a two-minute spell, the game was effectively put to bed. Neil Montgomery got possession in the 37th minute to the left of the Westmeath square but was bottled up. However, the ball was moved across to Jack Fagan directly in front of goal and he finished to the net. A minute later Stephen Bennett charged through the centre of the Westmeath defence and, hitting the ball off his stick, sent a screamer to the net from 30 metres – a superb strike. This allowed Waterford to go in at half-time 13 points clear, 3-10 to 0-6.

The second half was truly awful. Westmeath continued to work hard and did manage to land some good points but they rarely put the Waterford fullback line under serious pressure. They did manage a goal in the 19th minute when a good pass was sent into the unmarked corner forward Niall Mitchell who duly shot to the net.

Waterford’s play became extremely sloppy after the change of ends and they repeatedly sought to create goals when points were there for the taking. Stephen Bennett could have added three goals to his final tally of 2-8, but hit the post after another searing run through the Westmeath defence, missed a penalty (one of four frees he failed to convert) and had a goal disallowed for square ball. However, to give him his due, the terrorised the Westmeath defence from start to finish.

By contrast to Westmeath (and Cork last week), Waterford had no puckout strategy. Nearly all of their second half puckouts (into the wind) were long, and were repeatedly won by Westmeath (I would guess that their success rate was around 80%).

Apart from the full backs and Stephen Bennett, I think only two of the Waterford team could be in anyway happy with their performances. Jake Dillon, who started at midfield instead of Kieran Bennett, put in a very hardworking and effective 70 minutes. In goal, Billy Nolan was very safe under the high ball. He also landed a monster point in the first half, hitting a short puckout to the fullback, taking the return, and then planting the ball over the Westmeath crossbar from 120 metres. The other night, playing for WIT against DCU in the Fitzgibbon Cup, he made two superb saves, converted a penalty and a long-range free, and routinely found team mates with 70-metre puckouts into the hand. I regard him as a better goalkeeping option to Stephen O’Keeffe – he is more of a natural hurler, his puckouts are better, he is a genuine scoring option from long-distance frees, and he doesn’t turn his back on shots the way O’Keeffe did for Cork’s first goal last week.

Waterford: B Nolan (0-1); S Fives, C Prunty, S McNulty; K Power, D Fives, I Daly (0-1); J Dillon (0-1), M O’Brien; N Montgomery, D Lyons (0-2), J Fagan (1-0); D Hutchinson (0-1), S Bennett (2-8, 0-4frees, 0-4 65s), P Curran (0-2).

Subs: M Kearney (0-1) for O’Brien (27), B Power for Hutchinson (42), P Mahony (0-1) for Montgomery (49), K Moran for Power (56), T Barron for Curran (66).

whiteandblue

2 wins from 2 despite not setting the world alight is a positive start for Cahill and co.
These 2 weeks off now will allow Austin Gleeson & Jamie Barron further chance to recover before Limerick Saturday week. Limerick seem to be the form team so it's a great opportunity to further test the likes of Fagan, Montgomery etc. Disappointed to see Mark O'Brien have to come off injured, always impressed me with the minor & I know he was highly rated during his time with UCC, needs further gametime at this level.

deise08

Jake had a great game yesterday..
Put in trojan work.
Westmeath were more like the away team with the amount of supporters.
No attendance called out.

carter10

deise08 wrote: »

Jake had a great game yesterday..
Put in trojan work.
Westmeath were more like the away team with the amount of supporters.
No attendance called out.

Yes it was great to see such a big amount of blue and white in the stand. Disappointing performance though. Our basic error count is way too high. Westmeath won all the rucks yesterday and if they had a free taker it would have been a much closer game.

Liam Cahill - I was disappointed with our intensity, our decision making, our handling errors and our inability to drive on and finish the game off when we were on top.”
The amount of times a waterford player failed to raise a simple ball under no pressure was striking. Really needs improving and against the likes of Limerick we are at nothing if this does not improve a lot

A lot of players were well below par but Stephen Bennett was excellent and Billy Nolan was very good in goal- he has to be no 1- more accurate puck outs, very solid under high ball, can get a score.
Hutchinson was not in the game much and it looks like it will take some time for him to be ready for this level. Curran was unfortunately back to his frustrating self failing to win his own ball on a number of occasions. Ball in wasn't great though.

blueflame

Taking a realistic view of yesterday, it was a game to go and win, take the two points and get out of there. If we had won by 30 points everyone would have said not to get carried away it was only Westmeath. These games are generally difficult for players to really get themselves up for. This i mind i will focus on the positives as i saw them.

1. Billy Nolan is going to put serious pressure on Socks this year, his distribution is measured and first class.
2. Stephen Bennett is showing unbelievable hunger and leadership - he was at the thick of everything as if his life depended on it. If the other
19 can match his commitment and desire to win consistently I believe we can put it up to any of the other contenders this year.
3. Shane McNullty continues to show the kind of hurling many have felt he is capable of delivering consistently, and Prunty is settling in nicely at full-back. Was also impressed with Dillon yet again - good to see him back playing hurling.
4. Think some of the younger players will have learned a big lesson yesterday, if it not always going to go right for you and you cannot just switch on and off, you have to perform at 100% commitment all the time.


But for me the most vitally important thing we learned I feel is that Liam Cahill clearly set his stall out - he is simply not willing to accept mediocre performances - he was very outspoken in his view that he was not happy with this substandard performance and for him it was not about just escaping with the win - he wants and is demanding more, in terms of commitment and performance no matter who you are playing - I think it will take time for some lads to buy into this but i think if they do not, they will find themselves out in the cold very quickly. Cahill is a winner and he wants winners around him, this was very obvious in how he singled out Stephen Bennett's approach for particular mention.

Plenty of room for improvement and plenty of sticks to beat lads with, so lots of work ahead but on wards and upwards.

Giveitfong

Dungarvan had three players (Patrick Curran, Kieran Power, Darragh Lyons) and Abbeyside two (Conor Prunty, Neil Montgomery) in Waterford's starting line-up yesterday. The last time Dungarvan had three and Abbeyside two on the team was for the 1959 All-Ireland final which Waterford won. For Dungarvan, Ned Power was in goal and Tom Cunningham and John Kiely were at corner forward. For Abbeyside, Austin Flynn was full back and Donal Whelan at full forward. A signpost for the year ahead?

Gardner

Giveitfong wrote: »

Dungarvan had three players (Patrick Curran, Kieran Power, Darragh Lyons) and Abbeyside two (Conor Prunty, Neil Montgomery) in Waterford's starting line-up yesterday. The last time Dungarvan had three and Abbeyside two on the team was for the 1959 All-Ireland final which Waterford won. For Dungarvan, Ned Power was in goal and Tom Cunningham and John Kiely were at corner forward. For Abbeyside, Austin Flynn was full back and Donal Whelan at full forward. A signpost for the year ahead?

go back to counting possessions bud

seananigans

carter10 wrote: »

Yes it was great to see such a big amount of blue and white in the stand.

let's nip this in the bud, white and blue,blue and white is laois

hurler on de ditch

carter10 wrote: »

Yes it was great to see such a big amount of blue and white in the stand. Disappointing performance though. Our basic error count is way too high. Westmeath won all the rucks yesterday and if they had a free taker it would have been a much closer game.

Liam Cahill - I was disappointed with our intensity, our decision making, our handling errors and our inability to drive on and finish the game off when we were on top.”
The amount of times a waterford player failed to raise a simple ball under no pressure was striking. Really needs improving and against the likes of Limerick we are at nothing if this does not improve a lot

A lot of players were well below par but Stephen Bennett was excellent and Billy Nolan was very good in goal- he has to be no 1- more accurate puck outs, very solid under high ball, can get a score.
Hutchinson was not in the game much and it looks like it will take some time for him to be ready for this level. Curran was unfortunately back to his frustrating self failing to win his own ball on a number of occasions. Ball in wasn't great though.

Suppose Dessie picked up an injury before half time .it was clear to everybody that he was struggling looked like an ankle injury returned for the second half and only lasted a few mins before being subbed off. We overplayed everything out from the back and at times it was frustrating looking at the forward line waiting for the ball to come in ..the opposition's puck outs clearly will have to be defended ,if the full forward line can't Mark the full back line on puck outs .it's just handing them easy possession and not something you'd want to do with top teams as we seen against Cork ,what was dissapointing really was he felt he should give Mahony and moran a run before some of the newer lads on bench as we all know what they can and cannot do at this stage and let's face it we were in no danger of losing that game even if it was still going in , Bennett was stand out again although placed balls would need to pick up a bit ,his contribution from open play was unreal ,he could have had at least 4 goals . A win is a win , we all knew that that was going to be the case before we traveled and I for one was more interested in the performance , Ferns on Saturday afternoon now is nice prep for the limerick game ...all go according to plan ,played two .won two

mountgomery burns

Never heard some fellas on here so positive.

In fairness, Cahill's appointment alright a major success in that regard.

blueflame

Dessie did pick up a right crack on the ankle just before half time so Hurler on the Ditch could be spot on there. About giving Moran and Mahony game time, I think it was a case of just getting them on the pitch. Beating Westmeath and getting four points in the bag, gives us some breathing room, so Cahill can now if he wants give the younger lads exposure to a some serious opposition to see how they go.

I personally have never been fan of putting out almost a full reserve team, believing it is not really giving young lads a proper chance because they are all being exposed at once. Better to integrate two or three into a settled team and see how they go. Would like to see M.J Sutton get a run over the coming games, he was a promising minor and he looks to be a big powerful unit. Like to see more game time for Kieran Power also and would like to see Daragh Lyons get another run but not as centre forward. He is an aggressive, skillful and very intelligent hurler but does not have the presence as a center forward. He could be a good option as a corner forward as he can certainly score, or in midfield where his ability to win dirty ball from rucks and use it intelligently could be important.

Important also to keep getting game time into the likes of Daly, & Curran, Hutchinson, not so sure, think he could do with a break for next game or so,There has been so much hype over this lad, it might take the pressure off him to leave him of the starting 15 for a game or two and get him a couple of runs as a sub - have no doubt about his ability and that he will deliver, but I feel we just need to manage his introduction carefully.

Anyone here what happened with the late change for Kieran Bennett, assume it was only injury or illness but just wondering? What time is game in Ferns on Saturday, up to this point i had heard Wexford and New Ross mentioned as venues, so just wondering if any knows the real fixture.

TheScoringGoal

blueflame wrote: »

Dessie did pick up a right crack on the ankle just before half time so Hurler on the Ditch could be spot on there. About giving Moran and Mahony game time, I think it was a case of just getting them on the pitch. Beating Westmeath and getting four points in the bag, gives us some breathing room, so Cahill can now if he wants give the younger lads exposure to a some serious opposition to see how they go.

I personally have never been fan of putting out almost a full reserve team, believing it is not really giving young lads a proper chance because they are all being exposed at once. Better to integrate two or three into a settled team and see how they go. Would like to see M.J Sutton get a run over the coming games, he was a promising minor and he looks to be a big powerful unit. Like to see more game time for Kieran Power also and would like to see Daragh Lyons get another run but not as centre forward. He is an aggressive, skillful and very intelligent hurler but does not have the presence as a center forward. He could be a good option as a corner forward as he can certainly score, or in midfield where his ability to win dirty ball from rucks and use it intelligently could be important.

Important also to keep getting game time into the likes of Daly, & Curran, Hutchinson, not so sure, think he could do with a break for next game or so,There has been so much hype over this lad, it might take the pressure off him to leave him of the starting 15 for a game or two and get him a couple of runs as a sub - have no doubt about his ability and that he will deliver, but I feel we just need to manage his introduction carefully.

Anyone here what happened with the late change for Kieran Bennett, assume it was only injury or illness but just wondering? What time is game in Ferns on Saturday, up to this point i had heard Wexford and New Ross mentioned as venues, so just wondering if any knows the real fixture.

Ferns on Sunday.

Note it's Ferns GAA picth. Not the centre of excellence.

TheScoringGoal

Just for the lads who are putting Billy Nolan ahead of Stephen Ó Keeffe, have you any concerns about the two fumbles in the fitzgibbon against DCU? One he had to go back and collect and the other hit the cross bar if I remember right? Had another similar moment against DIT in a previous round. He also came out and lost possession in front of goal on Sunday.

He's a good striker of the ball, a solid hand and a good shot stopper but I'm not entirely sure of his concentration levels yet. Perhaps it's something that will come as for a goalkeeper he's still young.

Pogue eile

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Just for the lads who are putting Billy Nolan ahead of Stephen Ó Keeffe, have you any concerns about the two fumbles in the fitzgibbon against DCU? One he had to go back and collect and the other hit the cross bar if I remember right? Had another similar moment against DIT in a previous round. He also came out and lost possession in front of goal on Sunday.

He's a good striker of the ball, a solid hand and a good shot stopper but I'm not entirely sure of his concentration levels yet. Perhaps it's something that will come as for a goalkeeper he's still young.

Looking from the outside in, please dont shoot the messenger!, I would have those very same concerns over SOK, always liable to make a mistake.

TheScoringGoal

Off the top of my head I can't think of any similar errors O Keeffe has made. His concentration is far superior and he shows that by how vocal he is with his defence in front. Nolan may develop that but he doesn't have it yet. Nolan may also prove to be a better goalkeeper. But I don't think he's as far in front as suggested.

Pogue eile

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Off the top of my head I can't think of any similar errors O Keeffe has made. His concentration is far superior and he shows that by how vocal he is with his defence in front. Nolan may develop that but he doesn't have it yet. Nolan may also prove to be a better goalkeeper. But I don't think he's as far in front as suggested.

There was one that immediately jumps out v Limerick in 2018 and there have been others, really not having a pop against SOK who has been a great servant but the supposed weakness in Nolan is the exact one I would have always had for SOK

mountgomery burns

Pogue eile wrote: »

There was one that immediately jumps out v Limerick in 2018 and there have been others, really not having a pop against SOK who has been a great servant but the supposed weakness in Nolan is the exact one I would have always had for SOK

There was one but he's been in goal for Waterford for 8 years. No doubt he's had one or two others, and biggest flaw has been some crazy clearances over the years but in terms of consistency he's been excellent for that time and the best we've ever had and he's only 28. It's good that he has competition, two fine keepers alongside him.

Even the best keeper in the country Eoin Murphy dropped a ball into his net in the league against Clare two years ago. Very punishing position

Pogue eile

mountgomery burns wrote: »

There was one but he's been in goal for Waterford for 8 years. No doubt he's had one or two others, and biggest flaw has been some crazy clearances over the years but in terms of consistency he's been excellent for that time and the best we've ever had and he's only 28. It's good that he has competition, two fine keepers alongside him.

Even the best keeper in the country Eoin Murphy dropped a ball into his net in the league against Clare two years ago. Very punishing position

Agreed, that was kind of my point re. Nolan though.

TheScoringGoal

mountgomery burns wrote: »

There was one but he's been in goal for Waterford for 8 years. No doubt he's had one or two others, and biggest flaw has been some crazy clearances over the years but in terms of consistency he's been excellent for that time and the best we've ever had and he's only 28. It's good that he has competition, two fine keepers alongside him.

Even the best keeper in the country Eoin Murphy dropped a ball into his net in the league against Clare two years ago. Very punishing position

I'd agree on that. For some reason O Keeffe gets a reputation for these errors but he has made very few of them. He also brings a lot of other contributions in that he offers himself as option far more than most other goalkeepers. You can't underestimate the value of a vocal goalkeeper either, he's the only one who can see the entire pitch in front of him. I think he's also a better shot stopper than Nolan at the moment although both are strong at it.

Unfortunately for both of them they don't play in teams with natural ball winning forwards so they need to place puck outs more than other goalkeepers. Last year in particular was an issue but I'm not sure how much of that fault fell with the goalkeepers and how much was the outfield players not moving.

Two good goalkeepers, and it's quite possible Nolan has the higher ceiling. But for me it's still O Keeffe.

blueflame

for me Socks has the jersey and it is up to Nolan to take it off of him.

From memory Socks made plenty of basic mistakes when starting out of his career, as all goalkeepers do. I do feel however he has had little little threath to his place for one reason or another, and he has certainly become complacent when it comes to his deliveries. I appreciate how difficult it can be when you are expected to find players in space all the time but in recent years he has repeatedly put the ball straight over the sideline or straight into the hands of an unmarked opponent. Maybe I am being over critical but I have to disagree that he makes very few of these kind of error, I would estimate he has cost us 2/3 points on average in games with his distribution. The best goalkeepers are the ones that make the fewest errors, not the ones who make spectacular saves.

Then again, Nolan has learned his trade in the current era where it is much more about pucking the ball into space for runners rather than repeatedly hoofing it as far down the field as possible, as opposed to Socks who has had to alter mid stream. Maybe by working closely together they can both learn and continue improve their individual games - healthy competition is a great motivator.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

I'd stick with SOKY until it's very clear that Nolan is the better choice. If it's 50/50 I'd go with the tried and tested former all star. As someone said above, it's up to Nolan to take it off him without any doubt over it later.
SOKY does do bizarre things at times but he also pulls off wonder saves too and never afraid to try something new. i.e running out to wing back to receive a ball and score a point and he was the one who forced the Nash rule on penalty taking when he charged at him like a lunatic

PTH2009

The Cahill era is prob one of the most important reigns in our hurling history. If this goes tits up than that's that for this bunch of players imo

NaDeise92

I'd agree with alot of the above posts - SOK has been very consistent and has been great over the years hasn't done a whole lot wrong - bar the odd dodgy clearance or puck out(League final off the top of my head he had some dreadful puckouts)

Brilliant he has some real competition , its been awhile since we've been this strong at that position.

Anyone else think Mikey Kearney isnt good enough for the senior team? I dont fault his effort at all and he gives it his all - but I just dont think hes good enough for us.

Im also delighted how hungry Stevie looks in at full forward. At this stage of the year hes looking extremely fit and is looking for the ball at every opportunity.

PTH2009

NaDeise92 wrote: »

I'd agree with alot of the above posts - SOK has been very consistent and has been great over the years hasn't done a whole lot wrong - bar the odd dodgy clearance or puck out(League final off the top of my head he had some dreadful puckouts)

Brilliant he has some real competition , its been awhile since we've been this strong at that position.

Anyone else think Mikey Kearney isnt good enough for the senior team? I dont fault his effort at all and he gives it his all - but I just dont think hes good enough for us.

Im also delighted how hungry Stevie looks in at full forward. At this stage of the year hes looking extremely fit and is looking for the ball at every opportunity.

If only Stephen could talk Shane back into joining the setup

KevIRL

Anyone's season ticket attendance been updated for westmeath game yet?

TheScoringGoal

NaDeise92 wrote: »

I'd agree with alot of the above posts - SOK has been very consistent and has been great over the years hasn't done a whole lot wrong - bar the odd dodgy clearance or puck out(League final off the top of my head he had some dreadful puckouts)

Brilliant he has some real competition , its been awhile since we've been this strong at that position.

Anyone else think Mikey Kearney isnt good enough for the senior team? I dont fault his effort at all and he gives it his all - but I just dont think hes good enough for us.

Im also delighted how hungry Stevie looks in at full forward. At this stage of the year hes looking extremely fit and is looking for the ball at every opportunity.

Mikey Kearney is an enigma to me in that he's extremely skilful, has decent pace and is plenty brave. But aside from odd flashes he just doesn't seem to amount to the sum of his parts. A couple of times on Sunday he was trying to over complicate things (his goal chance at the end of the first half for one) which could be the sign of a guy that's unhappy with his form and trying to do too much to compensate. I think to say he's not good enough is unfair. On ability he offers something but he hasn't shown it enough. There's a couple of other players I'd guess that would be more likely to be cut before the championship panel.

On a side note, it was interesting that Liam Cahill loved him to wing forward when Montgomery came off and Paudi Mahoney went midfield.

Mastermcgrath

I reckon will see a more experienced team picked to play Limerick, Pauric Mahony, Moran and Gleeson All to come back in, not sure how far off Barron is. Bottom line is a few fellahs came up short in Mullingar, and the last Thing we need is to get another mauling off a Limerick team that look close to championship pace. Bear in mind there’s not the guaranteed passage into a quarter final this year either so in essence Cahill has only 3 more competitive games to find the best team to fit his gameplan.

IanVW

KevIRL wrote: »

Anyone's season ticket attendance been updated for westmeath game yet?

Its up but down as not attended