Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

_blaaz

carter10 wrote: »

The Brazilian co board are a disgrace, have been for years

Put all the money into the mens game and fcuking nothing into the womens,now look what happened!!!

DeiseDawg

_blaaz wrote: »

Put all the money into the mens game and fcuking nothing into the womens,now look what happened!!!

It was a close shave for the Brazilians :-)

KevIRL

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/derek-mcgrath1/waterford-wont-find-vision-for-future-in-populist-barstool-jibes-930714.html

D McGrath article in today's Examiner. Not holding back.

Deskjockey

KevIRL wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/derek-mcgrath1/waterford-wont-find-vision-for-future-in-populist-barstool-jibes-930714.html

D McGrath article in today's Examiner. Not holding back.

Derek talks (a LOT) about respect, but these constant interventions in the media, have made life difficult for his predecessor

Has anyone heard from Tipp's old manager all summer?

Stopitwillya

KevIRL wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/derek-mcgrath1/waterford-wont-find-vision-for-future-in-populist-barstool-jibes-930714.html

D McGrath article in today's Examiner. Not holding back.

Have to agree with his assessment on Ken and Brian flannery as pundits. Both wearing their mount sion glasses this year and making it out as poor paraic for what he has inherited.
Paraic fanning has been a disaster as manager, much of his own doing due to negative tactics (worse than McGrath).

Dammo

What difference does it make if Brian Flannery and Ken McGrath are ‘clubmates’? Their criticism is either valid or otherwise.

Is there a parochial malaise infecting the whole scene around the senior hurlers? Someone mentioned a possible issue when the Ballygunner players returned to the panel earlier in the thread.

Derek makes some interesting points but the article reeks of self defense rather than a genuine look at the future of Waterford hurling.

blueflame

Given Derek's propensity for quotations, I felt it is only apt to open this post by asking has he ever her the one about the wise old owl " The more he saw, the less he spoke, the less he spoke, the more he heard, Now, wasn't he a wise old bird" Unfortunately in my humble opinion, Derek was never willing to listen, hence the number of backroom staff he went through in his tenure. While good managers must have self belief and conviction, to improve they must learn from their mistakes, and must continue to do so with every passing game, but to learn from mistakes one must first accept that they have made mistakes, and not just in a token but realistic manner. One of the best ways to learn it to listen to opinion, analyze the information presented with an open rather than a closed mind something that Derek in his profession as a teacher should know. I believe that Derek never really mastered that trait , he hears what he want to hear and dismisses everything else.

He refers in his article to dispensing with older members who were "negative influences" which to me is a very disparaging public remark to make and reflects his personal opinion, yet he soundly dismisses other people's personal opinions at will, the actions of a thespian rather than the philosopher that he likes to portray himself as being.

He is of course correct about "Keyboard Warriors" and "Social Media" however not everyone has the opportunity to write in National Media and appear on every Radio Station in Ireland.I attended several presentations given by Derek on his team ethos, but always found him to be extremely defensive and in many cases dismissive of points raised that questioned his methods and thinking. If people are not given a proper forum to discuss they will invariably take whatever option is open to them. If one seeks to express as their personal views and opinions as publicly as Derek does and to use the media to freely criticizes and dismisses other's opinion, views and knowledge, he should remember that "Media is a Double Edged Sword and if you live by the sword you die by it".

I attended a fund raising raising event for the "Team Holiday Fund" in the Granville Hotel, an event attended by a large number of business individuals at a decent premium. Derek spoke very eloquently that night as he always done, but he opened his speech by telling the "businessmen present" that they might learn something for his way of doing things that could help them improve the way they go about their own business operations. This to me displayed a high degree of arrogance from a guy who was standing there looking for financial donations and support from these people !!!!!

He likes to look at statistics and use them as a reliable source of vindication. Statistics can be skewed to suit any argument and I will vindicate this statement by quoting a time honored example - "the vast majority of people will die in bed, applying the logical outcome to this statistic, the most dangerous place for any of us to be therefore is in bed"

I repeat again, I believe Derek gave the Waterford Job everything, but came up short in the end. If he truly believed he achieved as much as he dd and that he did so while providing a proper "life balance" for the team, he should be secure enough in his own skin not to taking the bait of columnists and reporters criticizing their opinions, exactly as he is now doing himself. He was quick to chasten people for criticism of his work yet he criticizes Pauric Fanning for listening and believing too much populist opinion.

Once again reflecting on Derek's propensity for waxing lyrical, i will leave this subject with a quotation from Hamlet " The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

thesaturdayman

The underlying & most obvious points to me are - all petty debates aside.

Vision & strategy.

Couple of eg.

Cork are appointing a high performance director, I attended a county board meeting in last 12 months where an officer said players ordering side portions of chips with their dinners was putting a massive burden on boards resources.

Recent fund raising efforts;

Waterford golf classic reportedly netted just over 4,000

The Tipperary golf classic netted over 130,000

We are going backwards, are badly led & before it is said of me or others - I’m not interested in the put yourself forward role.

1. It’s a closed shop - Chinese democracy
2. Who in the right mind would work with those fellas? Spend your time arguing about nothing. Any funds you would raise is just propping up a sinking ship.

A root and branch review & plan as is being called for by independent people is the only way

hurler on de ditch

KevIRL wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/derek-mcgrath1/waterford-wont-find-vision-for-future-in-populist-barstool-jibes-930714.html

D McGrath article in today's Examiner. Not holding back.

Wow ,mc grath is full of ****

_blaaz

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

Wow ,mc grath is full of ****

Anyone can hide behind skewed statistic


Why not compare derek mcgraths league record for 1st year in charge vs fannings??




Post-truth bullsh1t

willbeuptuesday

thesaturdayman wrote: »

The underlying & most obvious points to me are - all petty debates aside.

Vision & strategy.

Couple of eg.

Cork are appointing a high performance director, I attended a county board meeting in last 12 months where an officer said players ordering side portions of chips with their dinners was putting a massive burden on boards resources.

Recent fund raising efforts;

Waterford golf classic reportedly netted just over 4,000

The Tipperary golf classic netted over 130,000

We are going backwards, are badly led & before it is said of me or others - I’m not interested in the put yourself forward role.

1. It’s a closed shop - Chinese democracy
2. Who in the right mind would work with those fellas? Spend your time arguing about nothing. Any funds you would raise is just propping up a sinking ship.

A root and branch review & plan as is being called for by independent people is the only way

FFS if this is true that we netted €4K from a golf classic then we really need to look at he board. A club Golf Classic would raise more, have the county board a cohesive fundraising strategy? I very much doubt it, we need a commercial manager something Tipperary do have. We need to come into the 21st centenary.

BazBox

Fair play to Derek McGrath, agree with everything he said. He has had to listen to ex-players, sorry, "pundits" criticise him during his tenure(even when we were on our way to an All-Ireland final)and that goes hand in hand with the job.

When he has to listen to it a year after he left, then he is 100% entitled to reply and call out people who thought they were great with funny tweets back in Feb/March when we were putting Carlow and Offaly to the sword.

When he was in charge it was his "puke" hurling that was at fault, now that we are even worse with someone else in charge it has to be players:rolleyes:

I love when he starts an article with an oul Shakespeare quote, winds everyone up:D

thesaturdayman

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

FFS if this is true that we netted €4K from a golf classic then we really need to look at he board. A club Golf Classic would raise more, have the county board a cohesive fundraising strategy? I very much doubt it, we need a commercial manager something Tipperary do have. We need to come into the 21st centenary.

The kube circa 18-20 by all accounts.

Tipp had a night In mansion house raised circa 300k

No slight on the vice chair he is working his ass off with both the above events, but in scheme of things it’s chicken feed

Jjjjjjjjbarry

KevIRL wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/derek-mcgrath1/waterford-wont-find-vision-for-future-in-populist-barstool-jibes-930714.html

D McGrath article in today's Examiner. Not holding back.

Now we're all fighting! Current set up, ex players and ex managers. Hopefully it will prompt an actual clear the air within the county board. Some outside consultancy is definitely needed as everyone seems too close and too sensitive about what's best for Waterford.

Obi1mikal

"Lord, what fools these mortals be"

Jjjjjjjjbarry

‘Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once.’

- Ken McGrath's potential reply.

JesusRef

Deskjockey wrote: »

Derek talks (a LOT) about respect, but these constant interventions in the media, have made life difficult for his predecessor

Has anyone heard from Tipp's old manager all summer?

What could he say about Tipp this year?

SW1985

How dare he point out the truth?

Ian OB

The County Board (CB) are getting an awful time of it on here. I neither know nor care if its deserved.

In any case, the players need to go back to their clubs and move heaven & earth to win Munster & All-Ireland titles in whatever grade they operate at. If nothing else it will show whether or not there is a future for hurling in the county.

Then we can go back to seeing if the CB are making the best use of the resources at their disposal.

If we have the players, then surely there most be more than just Ballygunner who are any good.

bruschi

SW1985 wrote: »

How dare he point out the truth?

There is a way of pointing out the truth. Doing it by talking up how great you are and how bad everyone else in, throwing digs at everyone around you, does nothing to solve the problem but ensure you get a siege mentality coming in and a splitting of sides. If McGrath really wanted to see change, there are ways to do it. Ripping the current management, the managers father, the co board, current players, former players, current pundits to shreds whilst all the time talking oneself up as the messiah is not the most conducive way to try get change and progress.

SW1985

bruschi wrote: »

There is a way of pointing out the truth. Doing it by talking up how great you are and how bad everyone else in, throwing digs at everyone around you, does nothing to solve the problem but ensure you get a siege mentality coming in and a splitting of sides. If McGrath really wanted to see change, there are ways to do it. Ripping the current management, the managers father, the co board, current players, former players, current pundits to shreds whilst all the time talking oneself up as the messiah is not the most conducive way to try get change and progress.

Everyone else had free reign to take cuts at McGrath over the past few years without any pearl clutching. Considering he nearly won the all Ireland with a group now described as not good enough I think people would be served by listening to whatever he has to say.

bruschi

SW1985 wrote: »

Everyone else had free reign to take cuts at McGrath over the past few years without any pearl clutching. Considering he nearly won the all Ireland with a group now described as not good enough I think people would be served by listening to whatever he has to say.

so the best way to counteract the negativity when you were the manager is to do the exact same thing to the new management?

His point may be somewhat right in parts of what he says, but the manner in how he does it serves him no purpose but to inflate his own ego whilst denigrating others. As I said, if he really wanted change, there are far better avenues to do it rather than standing on his national media pedestal and taking pot shots at everyone.

SW1985

bruschi wrote: »

so the best way to counteract the negativity when you were the manager is to do the exact same thing to the new management?

His point may be somewhat right in parts of what he says, but the manner in how he does it serves him no purpose but to inflate his own ego whilst denigrating others. As I said, if he really wanted change, there are far better avenues to do it rather than standing on his national media pedestal and taking pot shots at everyone.

I think the prevailing narrative surrounding Waterford hurling over the last few years needs to be called out and destroyed. The game has changed. We wont win anything by clinging to the past.

Derek has had the courage to go against the grain and tell it as it is. Rather than listening , people stick to their modus operandi and try to find the negatives in him as per usual. We have an extremely bright passionate studied hurling man here who's given everything to try and drag Waterford hurling forward into the present. But people fight him at every turn.

JeffKenna

SW1985 wrote: »

I think the prevailing narrative surrounding Waterford hurling over the last few years needs to be called out and destroyed. The game has changed. We wont win anything by clinging to the past.

Derek has had the courage to go against the grain and tell it as it is. Rather than listening , people stick to their modus operandi and try to find the negatives in him as per usual. We have an extremely bright passionate studied hurling man here who's given everything to try and drag Waterford hurling forward into the present. But people fight him at every turn.

Christ, you'd swear the man had actually won something.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

At the end of the day, Derek's time is over, Ken and Flannery's times are over. A lot of people's time is over. What we need to do is focus on the present and future and stop bickering about the past. It's gone. We've no All Ireland and we still want one and that's all that matters. Hopefully we will focus on how we can achieve that instead of arguing the rights and wrongs of past approaches.

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

I think the prevailing narrative surrounding Waterford hurling over the last few years needs to be called out and destroyed. The game has changed. We wont win anything by clinging to the past.

Derek has had the courage to go against the grain and tell it as it is. Rather than listening , people stick to their modus operandi and try to find the negatives in him as per usual. We have an extremely bright passionate studied hurling man here who's given everything to try and drag Waterford hurling forward into the present. But people fight him at every turn.

We won 1 league title under mcgrath in five years?


And no munster championship games under new format and got relegated in league in his last year....challenge narrative surronding waterford hurling all yous want....fact remains his tactics were limited and had been found out....


I went to league game we lost to wexford and he was such a tactical wizz m,he wasnt able to make a substitution even when it was obvious game was going away from us



In a cold hard statistical analysis (which he loves to quote statistics it seems) waterford were left in same position he took them over after 5 years division 1B hurling (he likes to omit from his statistics he managed to get em.relegated twice in 5 years)

blueflame

Who is to say that had we not been so defensive in the last couple of years, we would not have won an All Ireland because nobody knows - we cannot turn back the clock?

Why does Derek persist with undermining players telling them they are not good enough and that they could only win playing his way? Did Barry Coughlan achieve the heights of his ability under Derek, I don't think so, because i believe he had all the attributes to be a quality full back but Derek turned him into a complete spoiler by never allowing his to grow into the position? Jake Dillon was a quality hurler and a top class finisher also a good ball winner, by the time Derek was finished with him he was struggling to play inter-county and ended up playing center back for his club.

He can talk about he discarding players who had a bad attitude and how this made a difference. it is easy to say because he never gave them the chance to prove his opinion wrong so we will never know! He spent the last five years giving out about people judging and commenting on his tactics, and now he is doing the exact same himself - the words kettle - pot come to mind

At this stage the only thing more defensive than his teams are the articles he is writing in the newspapers - can he just let it go!!!

deiseach

Jeez, I wish someone could have spoken to Derek before he submitted that (maybe someone did). Whatever the substance of his argument, he can't seriously think he has moved the conversation forward one jot. Disappointing.

Deisegodeo

I find it incredible that a national media outlet would publish such a self serving, agenda ridden article as that. There are huge games of hurling this weekend in both provinces and instead of offering some opinion on those games, we are treated to yet another piece of Derek putting forward how he knows best.

As far as I am concerned, while this season has indeed been an absolute shambles, the rot set in last year under Derek with relegation in the league and no win from 4 championship games, regardless of any excuse people want to offer. Perhaps he sees this too and is seeking to distance himself as much as possible from it All.

bruschi

Deisegodeo wrote: »

I find it incredible that a national media outlet would publish such a self serving, agenda ridden article as that. There are huge games of hurling this weekend in both provinces and instead of offering some opinion on those games, we are treated to yet another piece of Derek putting forward how he knows best.

As far as I am concerned, while this season has indeed been an absolute shambles, the rot set in last year under Derek with relegation in the league and no win from 4 championship games, regardless of any excuse people want to offer. Perhaps he sees this too and is seeking to distance himself as much as possible from it All.

It was printed for the very reason there are so many posts on here about it, its giving them clicks and selling papers. Its showing a divisive section of a county and they are happy for this to be generating interest, not only within Waterford but outside. Many people outside Waterford are as interested looking in, like myself. It's nearly like a soap opera at this stage, the jilted lover throwing shade at the new person in charge who themselves have not done well.

Its just unfortunate for Waterford that they are the soap opera in all this for the entertainment of others, whilst it is a sh!t show for those looking in from there.