Anyone else feel that parents shouldn't be allowed to opt their kids out of sex ed?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315107#Comment_119315107

It's mostly patents who can't accept that their kids might develop independent opinions, and that goes beyond religion.

I had one person tell ne not so long ago that while being atheist that s man could never become a woman and - quoting them - 'I don't care what science says'.

In this debate, the question world then be, 'what does your kid think?' and the most honest answer world be, 'whatever the fûck I tell them."

Kermit.de.frog

Since sex education was introduced there are more STD's than ever, more unwanted pregnancies than ever, more abortions than ever, more underage sex than ever...

It's working a charm.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315282#Comment_119315282

You do need my permission if you're going to start offering up your opinions to my child in a sex ed class. That's the whole point.

If you're not capable of just delivering the information without the bias of your opinions, then you're not the right person to teach the course.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315338#Comment_119315338

That cell division begins after fertilization. If you want to call it science, keep it scientific.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315367#Comment_119315367

That logic fails in at least three counts.

1 - you need to take into account the ages of the people: were they given sex education at school?

2 - correlation is not causation

3 - if true, it would only prove that sex ed needs to be reformed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315367#Comment_119315367

Yeah I've never seen so many teens with baby bumps, I suppose you have the figure to prove it too? No , didn't think so.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315389#Comment_119315389

I asked you what answer you world accept to the question 'when does life begin?' Not 'when does cell division begin'.

In any case, the scientific answer is conception/fertilisation, so can we go with that? Or are we being pedantic?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315584#Comment_119315584

Why would someone bring up "when does life begin?" in a sex ed class? Unless they had some agenda they wanted to push?

And actually, there is no one scientific definition of when "life" begins, or even what "life" is.

So we can leave it there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315604#Comment_119315604

Well, you did say, 'I definitely would not opt my child into any sex education class that tells them "life begins at conception" - so I was kind of wondering that myself.

But in the broader context, there should be a fixed syllabus based on science - and none of this religion or woke ****.

If argue it should be more 'social health and relationships' which world include trans and homosexuality issues. But you can present both without this knee-Jerk 'its an agenda!!" bollox.

y0ssar1an22

i agree, and would extend that further. parents should have no rights over their kids.

give it all back to the hierarchy.

what could go wrong?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315604#Comment_119315604

Sex-ed needs to include the consequences of having intercourse, not just the mechanics of doing it.

One of those consequences is pregnancy. A kid with even a few brain cells would say "so if the contraception I choose fails and I get pregnant, what are the options? What do they involve?" Answering that requires at least the minimum of what abortion is about, and why someone would or would not choose to get one.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315367#Comment_119315367

[citation needed]

You need to question whether there are "more x" or "more x reported". In ireland in particular, how many people "took the boat", children raised by other family members, emigration etc - you won't find reliable statistics on this

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315367#Comment_119315367

Teenage births are way down over last 30 years.

Jim2007

The idea that you can prevent young adults from accessing information or options is a delusion. They will get it second hand from their mates and they will by pass any mechanism you put in place to prevent them accessing it. Your only choice is to stick your head in the sand and pretend it is not happening or not.

A big part of growing up is learn to deal with the real world, with its sea of different options, conflicting information, prejudices and down right lies. You can be part of the process in the hope that you can guide a young adult along the right path or you can opt out, but you can’t control the process.

The more you try to control a teenager’s live the more you will be excluded from it and the less you will know about it.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315389#Comment_119315389

You seem to have a problem understanding.

THIS is an internet chat room. I don’t need your permission to give my opinion. If you don’t like that then go and take your complaint to a mod.

Now, if you want to argue about scientific facts then you should take your argument to Princeton University, whom I quoted.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315468#Comment_119315468

Well you wouldn’t see the baby bumps since there have been over 20000 abortions in Ireland since it’s legalization. That’s 20000 less baby bumps since then. 20000 less babies too.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315604#Comment_119315604

all you have to do is Google “when does human life begin”.

I think it’s important to present children with the facts.

The least they deserve is to know, for example, is that abortion ends a human life.

That pregnancy is a consequence of sexual intercourse.

That having unprotected sex may result in a life changing STD and that there’s no other way of contracting an STD.

How can they make the right decisions in their lives if they haven’t got all the information?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315841#Comment_119315841

Princeton are only one university. Literally look up definition of life and there are more definitions then one from Princeton.

I was replying in the context of the thread, which is about parents opting in or out, (i.e. Giving or withholding permission) on behalf of their kids, but whatever.

And agendas do matter, as does who is teaching the course. I've direct experience of a teacher bullying her beliefs on my child. It didn't end well for her though, when she tried to have my child suspended for having the audacity to challenge her. But being in her class having to listen to her teach her opinions, shaped as facts, was very stressful for my child who knew better.

But I digress. Thankfully those days are behind us.

But ultimately, I believe parents should have the right to opt their kids out.

Delete duplicate post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315843#Comment_119315843

Yeah, no agenda here.

Thanks for proving my point.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316744#Comment_119316744

All education is an agenda. This one just happens to have practical applications.

olestoepoke

Sex education is fine by me, safety, consent, anatomy etc. What I do not like is when they try to tell my 11 year old that boys can be girls and girls can be boys. I'd would have like to been asked permission before they try to indoctrinate my son with their ridiculous gender ideologies.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316744#Comment_119316744

What is my agenda, exactly? The poster says that he/she has seen very few teenage “baby bumps” ( the posters choice of expression) and I pointed out that as 20000 pregnancies have been ended by abortion since it was legalised that logic would indicate that there were, in fact, 20000 less baby bumps over these few years.

I think you’re frustrated because you don’t know how to argue a point and instead of just withdrawing from a back and forth with me, you’re kind of insisting that I withdraw.

that’s not going to happen.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316723#Comment_119316723

If you can show me a peer reviewed study from a reputable science department showing that human life begins at some other point other then conception then I’ll gladly look at it.

Or if you’d care to tell me when, after fertilisation has occurred, you personally think human life begins.

And what species the fertilized egg is until the point you think human life begins….oh and the status of the fertilized egg…as in if it’s not alive, is it dead? And if it’s dead…what brings it to life?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317261#Comment_119317261

Don't try to be clever. It's not working for you.

Given what you've posted here, you're clearly pro-life. You couldn't even keep to the topic on a discussion forum without bringing "abortion is ending a life" into it.

I would not want anyone teaching my child a sex-education course where they might feel the need to offer them their opinions shaped as "facts".

Like I said, there is more than one definition of life, and when it begins, but of course, you picked the one that suits your point of view.

Does that make my point clear enough for you? Hopefully it does.

Have a nice Sunday.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317307#Comment_119317307

And as I posted earlier, there are other threads for you to have this debate on.

If it helps you to focus your mind, this thread is about whether parents should or shouldn't be allowed to opt their kids out of sex ed.

You're current posts and attitude have only reinforced my opinion that they absolutely should have every right to opt their kids out.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317489#Comment_119317489

Sorry, but what IS your stance here? You brought up the "life begins" argument, said you only wanted a scientific answer, dodged the question when I asked you what that meant, then said it was based on opinion (and presumeable not science?) and now you're saying this is a reason to allow parents to opt out..? Kind of confusing.

I don't see the relevence of when life begins personally - this is about relationships, the law regarding sex and minors and safe practices. A lot of that is going to have different opinions because a lot of it is based on morality. Now, you can give hard facts on the safety levels of various different contraception levels, sure - but not ethical issues about contraception.

Trans is another one - you can give people information about how trasnitioning gender is scientifically done - this is based on scientific fact. But you'll still have people saying born a man, always a man - that's opinion.

Strumms

If parents could pick and choose what parts or elements of the school curriculum they wanted their kids to experience and learn it would be anarchy… schools can’t pander to the individual whims of parents in such a manner.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317775#Comment_119317775

I think if you go back and re-read you'll find it was TooTired123 who brought it up first.

Very quickly followed up by "abortion is ending a human life" and "shouldn't kids be told this?" under the guise of "scientific facts".

Be honest and cut through the bullshit - it was pretty clear where they were trying to take the thread, after that.

You yourself say you don't see the relevance of "where life begins". So why bring it up in a sex ed class at all?

I think my stance pretty clear. I would not want someone pushing their pro-life views in a classroom. Let them keep that in their own home for their own kids.

I hope that clears up your confusion.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317489#Comment_119317489

And as I told you earlier on ( but you’re not listening) you don’t have any authority on this thread or any other thread. It appears that you have trouble with an overwhelming urge to control your surroundings.

My initial post was about only using simple scientific fact to deliver sex Ed to kids.

You claimed that the facts I alleged were wrong and 12 hours and many posts later you’ve yet to produce any evidence to back up your claim.

So your still floundering around with an allegation about an “agenda” and generally wasting everyone’s time.

Now just leave it. You were wrong. Move on.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317403#Comment_119317403

Lol. You don’t want anyone teaching your kids any facts. That’s enough for me…..