Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Swamp_Cat

savannahkat wrote: »

Same old same old blame the ball in and not the forwards who are incapable of winning their own ball.After every game for the past two years we hear the same monotonous rhyme "The Ball In to the forwards was terrible" never the forwards could not win the ball. They cant win the ball period and they have not been winning the ball for the past two years and we persist in trying various combinations of the same twelve names and all the while expecting different results.

Maybe so but you can't dismiss the quality or lack of ball sent in as irrelevant when evaluating a forward(s) performance. ...or the backs performance for that matter.

brookville

I thought we were lucky to be as close as we were at half time.We scored very little after mullen went off in the 1st half and I wonder did his injury affect the players.He would be a big loss for the year.
We started very well in the first 20 mins and were moving the ball well around the place.Donnelly was very good and billy ryan was very lively but this all dried up when mullen went off.
Two goals were preventable and we struggled under the high ball in defence at times.Shannagher won a few frees.i thought huw done well on conlan just needs to tidy up his tackling.
Tommy walsh was good when he came on just a few of his deliveries weren't great.
Overall it was a game both teams will feel they could of won,there goals kept them in it while we will feel we could of prevented definitely the 3rd one but I would of taking a draw as david mac was ready to strike the ball he missed.
Wallace and mullen were the stars in defence I thought and aylward showed a bit of form.alan murphy won a few frees and eoin cody got a nice point.
We should be expected to beat laois the next day.we will probably see a few changes.I thought maher might have got a run yesterday.we need to try get the right mid field pairing we are losing these battles a good bit

Swamp_Cat

kksaints wrote: »

The ball in makes a huge difference these days particularly with the high, hanging, often straight down the middle long passes that we regularly hit. When we're playing against a sweeper system these passes are more ineffective as it allows the sweeper to also challenge for the ball as well as the forwards marker so instead of a one on one, its often a two on one which is doubly difficult for our forward. It also makes it easy for the defense to break the ball as they know its more likely for the defense to have more players to win the breaking ball.

The high, hanging ball also doesn't suit the forwards we have at the moment whom with the exception of Wally and Donnelly are on the small side. Until TJ and Colin Fennelly come back the ball into our forwards needs to be low, quick and to the flanks to allow our forwards to run onto it and to avoid the crowding that happened far too often against Wexford last weekend which suits teams that play with the sweeper down to the ground.

Absolutely. the post you are replying to makes no mention of the importance of adapting the type of delivery into the forwards depending on who is playing. TJ, Colin, Wally J. Donnelly are a much different target than Bill Sheehan, R. Hogan, & Ger Aylward.

Danno

Kilkenny v Laois at 2pm on Sunday in Portlaoise.

Eddie Brennan was very peeved at the condition of the pitch in Portlaoise last Saturday. https://www.laoistoday.ie/2020/02/23/no-way-that-match-should-have-gone-ahead-says-laois-boss-brennan/

Hard to see it being much better come next Sunday.

v3ttel

savannahkat wrote: »

Same old same old blame the ball in and not the forwards who are incapable of winning their own ball.After every game for the past two years we hear the same monotonous rhyme "The Ball In to the forwards was terrible" never the forwards could not win the ball. They cant win the ball period and they have not been winning the ball for the past two years and we persist in trying various combinations of the same twelve names and all the while expecting different results.

Would you disagree that Sheehan's one outstanding quality is a bit of pace (maybe to run onto an odd ball out in front of him), rather than his ability to win a high ball?

Or that Richie Hogan would have a better chance of running onto a ball, rather than trying to win a high ball from someone who is towering head and shoulders above him?

Would it be nice if every player was amazing in the air and could win the ball, no matter what the respective height/strengths of his opponent are? Yeah, definitely. However, you have to play to your strengths. "Winning your own ball" is all fine and dandy, a nice "clever" soundbite when you've some of the best players to ever play the game and can beat you in multiple ways. However, when your players are not a level above everyone, it's just ignoring reality.

I think we're trying to improve the quality of ball going in, but whenever we're under pressure, we revert to type. Fine, when you've Donnelly, Wally, TJ who are outstanding under a high ball. Not so much with the other forwards.

The_Ghost

Heard Adrian had the scan today and that he done his cruciate. Hope this isn’t true but if it is speedy recovery to him. And if it is true he’ll be a massive loss for us he really gave us a boost last year.

corner back 2

Just a few thoughts on Sunday. Mullen looked excellent before the injury and will be a big loss this summer. Darren Mullen was very good throughout - he lost one or 2 high balls early but found a way to beat his much taller opponent after that. Conor Delaney also very solid and quietened Shane O Donnell when he went back in there. Its probably time to move Conor Browne back to midfield. Forwards hot and cold again and despite plenty of hard work we are lacking real scoring power at the moment. Was impressed with Huw Lawlor and he saw off John Conlon well. Shanagher was a tougher opponent but felt the ref blew two soft frees when Lawlor challenged hard for the ball. Midfield remains a concern - both Leahy and Buckley did some good things but without having major influence on the game.

brookville

Heard it's the cruciate alright

Rasputin11

Danno wrote: »

Kilkenny v Laois at 2pm on Sunday in Portlaoise.

Eddie Brennan was very peeved at the condition of the pitch in Portlaoise last Saturday. https://www.laoistoday.ie/2020/02/23/no-way-that-match-should-have-gone-ahead-says-laois-boss-brennan/

Hard to see it being much better come next Sunday.

O Moore Park holds an incredible amount of matches every year. I'd imagine it's the busiest pitch in Ireland.

mountgomery burns

Grats wrote: »

Over 40 frees were awarded in the Limerick v Cork match. Listening to Daly and McGrath you would get the impression that the bulk of them were for throw balls. Reading the Examiner today it reports that four were for throw balls, three against Limerick and one against Cork. Pity they didn't review the other 38 frees and establish what they were for. Seems to be they were just interested in their own agenda. If players are fouling, and they are much more so than ever, then don't blame the refs. Blame the coaches.

I will hold all of ye making this don't blame the refs (Kilkenny ref that is) to that later in the year. I'd say that'll be broken with in the next two weeks

Grats

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I will hold all of ye making this don't blame the refs (Kilkenny ref that is) to that later in the year. I'd say that'll be broken with in the next two weeks

Well, we're no longer short of company, are we?

BTW, I for one wouldn't be happy with the amount of head high challenges witnessed over this weekend, and no real action taken.

Deskjockey

brookville wrote: »

Heard it's the cruciate alright

V disappointing for the chap. Super player.

mountgomery burns

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/injury-blow-for-kilkenny-as-adrian-mullen-set-to-miss-rest-of-season-983763.html#click=https://t.co/gBV1m8NAch

Best wishes to him

Banner2theend

As a Clare hurling fan but also want to see the top players strutting their stuff on the hurling fields I would also like to send my best wishes to Adrian Mullen. After the highs of the Ballyhale Shamrocks success in All Ireland senior club hurling glory, to now this deeply unfortunate injury. Rehab is going to be tough but I'm sure he is made of the right stuff and I hope that he will make a full and speedy recovery for this most impressive talent. Best wishes from all Clare posters myself included.

Kenajonn

Banner2theend wrote: »

As a Clare hurling fan but also want to see the top players strutting their stuff on the hurling fields I would also like to send my best wishes to Adrian Mullen. After the highs of the Ballyhale Shamrocks success in All Ireland senior club hurling glory, to now this deeply unfortunate injury. Rehab is going to be tough but I'm sure he is made of the right stuff and I hope that he will make a full and speedy recovery for this most impressive talent. Best wishes from all Clare posters myself included.

Class

Billy Ocean

mountgomery burns wrote: »

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/injury-blow-for-kilkenny-as-adrian-mullen-set-to-miss-rest-of-season-983763.html#click=https://t.co/gBV1m8NAch

Best wishes to him

Best of luck to him in his recovery, far to common of an injury. Plenty of examples of lads making full recoveries in recent times, Sean Finn, Brendan Maher, Ciaran Kilkenny and ofcourse his fellow ballyhale man Henry Shefflin, hopefully he'll do the same.

Alonzo Moseley

Terrible news for Mullen and for Ballyhale and the county

Did Darren lose a year with same thing about 3/4 years ago?

brookville

Terrible news for chap himself and robs us of a key foward for the summer.He was brillant last year and got some vital scores and took pressure off tj.Anyone there yesterday knew it was very serious and it's not often we see these lads stretched off.Unfortuneatly most counties lose players every year so hopefully his recovery goes well and we see him back soon.
If theres any consolation like richie english management have time to try integrate a player into the position so hopefully it will open the door for someone and they take the chance.Hopefully we might see blanchfield back from injury soon.

JJs Left Hand

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

Terrible news for Mullen and for Ballyhale and the county

Did Darren lose a year with same thing about 3/4 years ago?

Did the two of them I think. Missed a minor All Ireland with one of them

conor05

brookville wrote: »

Terrible news for chap himself and robs us of a key foward for the summer.He was brillant last year and got some vital scores and took pressure off tj.Anyone there yesterday knew it was very serious and it's not often we see these lads stretched off.Unfortuneatly most counties lose players every year so hopefully his recovery goes well and we see him back soon.
If theres any consolation like richie english management have time to try integrate a player into the position so hopefully it will open the door for someone and they take the chance.Hopefully we might see blanchfield back from injury soon.

Devastating new for the chap and Kilkenny. If there is a tiny positive Adrian can take from it, is he will able to be around the team environment this summer when doing his recovery in the light and big of sun.
If he done it with Ballyhale in Sept/Oct it would be long dark winter for him. By September this year he will have the back broke of his recovery.

Best of luck to him and home he comes back even stronger!

savannahkat

Ritchie Reid and Colin Fennelly are both the wrong side of 30. Ritchie Hogan great player but again the wrong side of 30 with serious injuries in the recent past which still hinder him, at best he will an impact sub come summer. Terrible news about Adrian Mullen who along with John Donnelly is only one of two who have consistently played well of the so called newcomers. Ritchie Leahy and James Maher are out and out midfielders yet both have played as much in the forwards as in midfield in the recent past and why because the likes of Martin Keoghan, Luke Scanlon, Liam Blanchfield, Alan Murphy Billy Sheehan and others have simply not put up their hands and grabbed a spot despite having near on two years to do so. Then we have Walter, Billy Ryan and Ger Alyward who blow hot and cold,flatter to deceive, and refuse to play two good games in a row. Now without Adrian we have at best three inter-county forwards whom we can depend on in Reid, Fennelly and Donnelly.All of this then appears to be confounded by the fact that it appears if one is not on the intercounty panel at the start of the year then one cant play oneself onto it. If this is the case then it is a very very narrow minded administrative policy. Some insinuated here because Tom Phelan is with a junior club the gap in standard to senior inter-county would be too prohibitive for him. Many a junior player have AI medals in their back pockets with Kilkenny. I hope above all else we do not resort to trying to make forwards out of backs especially Padraigh Walsh. He will be required at center back before the year is out and that is written with no no disrespect to Paddy Deegan intended.

Noddy33

brookville wrote: »

Terrible news for chap himself and robs us of a key foward for the summer.He was brillant last year and got some vital scores and took pressure off tj.Anyone there yesterday knew it was very serious and it's not often we see these lads stretched off.Unfortuneatly most counties lose players every year so hopefully his recovery goes well and we see him back soon.
If theres any consolation like richie english management have time to try integrate a player into the position so hopefully it will open the door for someone and they take the chance.Hopefully we might see blanchfield back from injury soon.

First a foremost its gutting for the chap and hope he makes a speedy and full recovery. Maybe clutching at straws here..........but long term this could be a small blessing in disguise that prolongs his career once he makes a full recovery.

I have been watching him hurl since a young age but the lad has been hurling literally non stop for the last 5 years. Out of all the Ballyhale lads for me he was he the one lad I wanted to see take a well earned prolonged break. The enforced break now will give him a chance to get a rest and it no doubt will be a tough test for him mentally too but lets just hope no long term damage.

He will be massive too for Ballyhale and not too sure what the recovery timeline but would delighted to see if he could make it back for club Under 21 campaign later in the year

Village87

Noddy33 wrote: »

First a foremost its gutting for the chap and hope he makes a speedy and full recovery. Maybe clutching at straws here..........but long term this could be a small blessing in disguise that prolongs his career once he makes a full recovery.

I have been watching him hurl since a young age but the lad has been hurling literally non stop for the last 5 years. Out of all the Ballyhale lads for me he was he the one lad I wanted to see take a well earned prolonged break. The enforced break now will give him a chance to get a rest and it no doubt will be a tough test for him mentally too but lets just hope no long term damage.

He will be massive too for Ballyhale and not too sure what the recovery timeline but would delighted to see if he could make it back for club Under 21 campaign later in the year

Very good post. young lad of 20 can rest, enjoy himself do the recovery and come back stronger.

Massive loss for Kilkenny. A natural forward we are really lacking is a killer. could be tough summer ahead.

Swamp_Cat

brookville wrote: »

Heard it's the cruciate alright

Terrible news. Get well & stay involved cause it's a long road back.

Alonzo Moseley

Village87 wrote: »

Very good post. young lad of 20 can rest, enjoy himself do the recovery and come back stronger.

Massive loss for Kilkenny. A natural forward we are really lacking is a killer. could be tough summer ahead.

Yes, outside TJ, probably the forward we least could do without
A forward line of Donnelly, TJ, Mullen,Hogan , Fennelly and one from Billy Ryan/WW/Eoin Cody would be the best we have fielded in at least 6 years
I hope it immediately opens the door to fastrack starts for Eoin Cody but I fear we will just see a limited shooter honest grafter type (Pat Lyng/JJ Farrell/Aylward/Sheehan) replace him

Wouldn't be as gloomy as you but agree that we cannot shug off the loss of a class accurate shooting forward for a year as easily as say Tipp or Limerick

tbiggertycome

savannahkat wrote: »

Ritchie Reid and Colin Fennelly are both the wrong side of 30. Ritchie Hogan great player but again the wrong side of 30 with serious injuries in the recent past which still hinder him, at best he will an impact sub come summer. Terrible news about Adrian Mullen who along with John Donnelly is only one of two who have consistently played well of the so called newcomers. Ritchie Leahy and James Maher are out and out midfielders yet both have played as much in the forwards as in midfield in the recent past and why because the likes of Martin Keoghan, Luke Scanlon, Liam Blanchfield, Alan Murphy Billy Sheehan and others have simply not put up their hands and grabbed a spot despite having near on two years to do so. Then we have Walter, Billy Ryan and Ger Alyward who blow hot and cold,flatter to deceive, and refuse to play two good games in a row. Now without Adrian we have at best three inter-county forwards whom we can depend on in Reid, Fennelly and Donnelly.All of this then appears to be confounded by the fact that it appears if one is not on the intercounty panel at the start of the year then one cant play oneself onto it. If this is the case then it is a very very narrow minded administrative policy. Some insinuated here because Tom Phelan is with a junior club the gap in standard to senior inter-county would be too prohibitive for him. Many a junior player have AI medals in their back pockets with Kilkenny. I hope above all else we do not resort to trying to make forwards out of backs especially Padraigh Walsh. He will be required at center back before the year is out and that is written with no no disrespect to Paddy Deegan intended.

I think you've been very unfair to guys who are going in training and playing matches and given it their all, their not given up their whole social life just for a free tracksuit and a few hurls. They're dedicated to Kilkenny and try to perform to the highest level every day they go out. Personally I think a better game plan adapted to the players we have now could really transform the fortunes of our team but it hasn't been in this managements DNA so far.
I'll try and address your points one by one.
Ritchie Reid has never been a fixture on this Kilkenny team so his age is irrelevant as I doubt that will change. Colin is coming off an All Star year and is getting better with age. From what I've seen so far Ritchie Hogan is moving more freely than he has in years. I don't think he will come from the bench, I think the league shows you how he will be used which is starting and playing 40 to 50mins and then being called ashore if he's flagging. Personally I'd like to see him play a few full matches but hopefully their utilizing the GPS data from the trackers their wearing and identifying when Ritchie is reaching a point in the game when he's going to start damaging himself and that's why he's been taken off so far.

Colin and Hogan may not have many years left in them but they can definitely perform at a high level for us this year. I agree the news about Adrian is terrible for him personally and we will miss him but it gives an opportunity to others.

I'm going to lump all the players listed Ritchie Leahy, Liam Blanchfield, Mossy Keoghan, Bill Sheehan, Luke Scanlon, and to a lesser extent Alan Murphy and James Maher are all very young and personally I don't think we're playing a type of hurling that will allow them to thrive at this age. You will always have a Henry, Tommy or JJ who will break this mould and can take the step up immediately, much like Mullen did. Also Mullen was working with Mick Dempsey since he was 16 or 17 so he would be ready to step straight in. None of the rest of the players mentioned did any of the required strength and conditioning until they entered the Senior set up(this is a flaw in the Kilkenny structure there should be a S&C program which allows the younger players to be ready for Senior) so they've had to get to the level while trying to prove themselves. Also if you look back at some of our best forwards of the last few teams Eddie Brennan, Taggy, TJ, Ritchie Hogan, Colin and others, these guys were very inconsistent to start with they often struggled to nail down a spot from game to game. The usually only became a fixture at 24 to 26 most of the guys listed above haven't hit that yet.

Walter can be frustrating to watch I will agree but it depends on what your looking for from him. If it's a scoring machine then that's not what he's ever been and we know from Tipp that if you only have the silky skillful players you struggle to win the tight games you need a few tough grafting forwards too. Billy Ryan is the same age as the previous group and I think is playing very well considering the style we play and what our forwards are facing. Ger Aylward has been plagued with injuries and then confidence and this year so far he has looked closer to his old self he's got 3 goals in 3 games so far.

I don't know where you're getting the bit about not being on the panel at the start of the year excluding you. In the last few years there have been a few players brought in after club games to be given a go. The biggest issue with them making a break through is the S&C level at club and intercounty is normally night and day so the skill might be there but the body needs work which takes time. I'd agree that plenty of Junior hurlers have served Kilkenny well over the years sure when Wally made his appearance in the 2012 final he was a junior hurler at the time. This has never been a barrier for Cody and rightly so. However you do have to recognise that it is far easier to impress at Junior than at Intermediate and consequently Senior and then intercounty. We often see Junior and intermediate teams struggle when they get promoted up a level and that's because it's tougher with less time on the ball, this can't be denied.

Padraig has played in the half forwards for his club and is very adept up front however he is best in the backs. Personally I'd prefer him at right half back and Delaney at CB which allows Padraig to venture forward but that ain't going to happen at this stage when Delaney hasn't played a game at CB for us this year.

I just think slating young lads who are at a disadvantage to their peers in the likes of Tipp, Galway and Limerick is not what Kilkenny supporters have ever been about. A lad might not be your cup of tea but for me anyone who pulls on the black and amber has my respect and gratitude for all the hard work they put in and I will back them to the hilt.

JJs Left Hand

Good post. Only thing I'd point out is that there is a clear pathway from U14 squads up on S&C. Whether it's fit for purpose or not is another discussion as we don't seem to be reaping the benefits of it but I think the first proper generation of its implementation is only starting to arrive now so we should start to see the benefits. If you see any of last years U20 they are moving big weights but we definitely seem to be producing smaller hurlers than other counties. We're not a very tall team anymore

lim4ev

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

Yes, outside TJ, probably the forward we least could do without
A forward line of Donnelly, TJ, Mullen,Hogan , Fennelly and one from Billy Ryan/WW/Eoin Cody would be the best we have fielded in at least 6 years
I hope it immediately opens the door to fastrack starts for Eoin Cody but I fear we will just see a limited shooter honest grafter type (Pat Lyng/JJ Farrell/Aylward/Sheehan) replace him

Wouldn't be as gloomy as you but agree that we cannot shug off the loss of a class accurate shooting forward for a year as easily as say Tipp or Limerick

I'm not sure if any county could lose a player of such importance and ability and win the all irl tipp did it last yr after losing Bonner Maher both kilkenny and limerick will have to do it after losing very important players this year it's a big ask.

By the way just noticed your name Alonzo Moseley from my favourite film if I'm not mistaken???

JJs Left Hand

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Good post. Only thing I'd point out is that there is a clear pathway from U14 squads up on S&C. Whether it's fit for purpose or not is another discussion as we don't seem to be reaping the benefits of it but I think the first proper generation of its implementation is only starting to arrive now so we should start to see the benefits. If you see any of last years U20 they are moving big weights but we definitely seem to be producing smaller hurlers than other counties. We're not a very tall team anymore

Just to point out this is not an endorsement of our development squad system which I believe is outdated, not fit for purpose and is far too heavily influenced by Kierans College. Harder get off it than on it

brookville

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

Yes, outside TJ, probably the forward we least could do without
A forward line of Donnelly, TJ, Mullen,Hogan , Fennelly and one from Billy Ryan/WW/Eoin Cody would be the best we have fielded in at least 6 years
I hope it immediately opens the door to fastrack starts for Eoin Cody but I fear we will just see a limited shooter honest grafter type (Pat Lyng/JJ Farrell/Aylward/Sheehan) replace him

Wouldn't be as gloomy as you but agree that we cannot shug off the loss of a class accurate shooting forward for a year as easily as say Tipp or Limerick

Hopefully we might give game time soon to a few scoring fowards on the panel lads that spring to mind shane walsh/james bergin and eoin cody.i know adrian Mullen made his debut in the first round but he could be an exception.he was coming off a great club run and voted club player of the year.Cody will throw a lad in if his hurling well before the championship.
For the remainder of the league I'd like to see us settle on a mid field it's being a troublesome area.Id give browne another go corner back and Wallace has being very good so far.Darren mullen is a very intelligent player and reminds me a bit like cha.He should be able nail down a spot and should be an addition to the team.Id also persist will billy ryan and will be better suited to better ground.