Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Truth be told1974

BloodyBill wrote: »

It was as poor a finish as iv seen from a Kilkenny team.

The last five minutes in last year's Leinster Final was much worse.

Truth be told1974

BoroMan32 wrote: »

I just don't get why you'd bring someone like Bill Sheehan into a game like that, he doesn't have the physicality for a game in those conditions. A few others (especially John Donnelly) seemed to fade very badly late on in terms of fitness. Then again it's early days and you wouldn't know what stage they're all at. A disappointing result but plenty to take from it, too.

The problem (for me) was that Kilkenny players (in the last ten minutes) were trying flick passes and clever passes that on a 'hard ground' day would look wonderful, Donnelly played well but was guilty of a couple of loose passes, so was Darren Mullen near the end and what Bill Sheehan was at with that pass near the end of the match, where he just hit it straight to an unmarked WX player I do not know..?

savannahkat

From 1 to 7 we have more than enough good to very good to excellent players as good as any county. From 8 to 15 we are like the proverbial sheep in a heap. The last 20 minutes from Kilkenny yesterday was not bad it was pathetic and we are going nowhere, learning nothing, repeating the same mistakes over and over with the same players over and over. Waltar John Donnelly and Billy Ryan fine big players very skillful as skillful as we have ever produced but where is the devilment. Playing the smaller players yesterday on that day in those conditions beggars belief. Some of the periphery players were not good enough last year were not good enough yesterday and will not be good enough in three months time it is time to stop trying them.The same panel the same names the same tactics = the same results and nothing yesterday gave rise for even the tiniest bit of optimism. The returning players while they will improve the team they will not improve it enough to make us All Ireland winners. That last 20 minutes yesterday was as bad as Kilkenny ever played and that is the truth of it.

corner back 2

No need to over react to yesterday at all. Lots of positives and plenty of reasons for optimism. KK in the first half showed how the running game can be stopped by intensity and hard work and good use of the ball. The main issue was the use of the ball in the second half and running out of steam. If you look at the quality the WX were able to bring on compared to the KK bench and that was the main difference. If you look who wasn't there for KK you would have to think they will make a major difference. KK used the ball well in the first half and hopefully they can show that more in the future.

savannahkat

corner back 2 wrote: »

No need to over react to yesterday at all. Lots of positives and plenty of reasons for optimism. KK in the first half showed how the running game can be stopped by intensity and hard work and good use of the ball. The main issue was the use of the ball in the second half and running out of steam. If you look at the quality the WX were able to bring on compared to the KK bench and that was the main difference. If you look who wasn't there for KK you would have to think they will make a major difference. KK used the ball well in the first half and hopefully they can show that more in the future.

Hopefully that is the problem we are saying hopefully for far too long now. There should have no hopefully about it yesterday. With the wind in the last 20 minutes we should have done a lot lot better. It just was not good enough. It is not as if the player are unfit they may not be at peak but they are fit.The wind may have died some but they still had a fair breeze at their backs It was not good enough by any standards.

MfMan

savannahkat wrote: »

From 1 to 7 we have more than enough good to very good to excellent players as good as any county. From 8 to 15 we are like the proverbial sheep in a heap. The last 20 minutes from Kilkenny yesterday was not bad it was pathetic and we are going nowhere, learning nothing, repeating the same mistakes over and over with the same players over and over. Waltar John Donnelly and Billy Ryan fine big players very skillful as skillful as we have ever produced but where is the devilment. Playing the smaller players yesterday on that day in those conditions beggars belief. Some of the periphery players were not good enough last year were not good enough yesterday and will not be good enough in three months time it is time to stop trying them.The same panel the same names the same tactics = the same results and nothing yesterday gave rise for even the tiniest bit of optimism. The returning players while they will improve the team they will not improve it enough to make us All Ireland winners. That last 20 minutes yesterday was as bad as Kilkenny ever played and that is the truth of it.

Walter has done many fine things in a KK jersey, but skillful?

savannahkat

MfMan wrote: »

Walter has done many fine things in a KK jersey, but skillful?

You do not play inter-county hurling for Kilkenny, Cork or Tipperary if you are not skillful. You might get away with it in other counties but not in any of these counties.

Fred Daly

You wonder then about a player like Shane Conway of Kerry he hurled well in the Fitzgibbon cup final last week. kilkenny player that came on last sunday could not make it on the first fifteen of the UCC team.

Village87

Fred Daly wrote: »

You wonder then about a player like Shane Conway of Kerry he hurled well in the Fitzgibbon cup final last week. kilkenny player that came on last sunday could not make it on the first fifteen of the UCC team.

Kilkenny have not won an u21/u20 all ireland in 11/12 years and only won a handful of leinsters in that time. Its a cycle, we are an average team now and throw in the few Shamrock lads to come back we will be competitive.

We could lose to any team or beat any team on any given day as shown last year when beating Limerick. Our style of hurling and lack of success underage is a concern and i cant see this Kilkenny team doing much over the next 3/4 years

MfMan

savannahkat wrote: »

You do not play inter-county hurling for Kilkenny, Cork or Tipperary if you are not skillful. You might get away with it in other counties but not in any of these counties.

Balls. Walter is a laborious striker of the ball, poor on one side. Colin Fennelly is prone to awkwardness too. As is Tipp's Bonnar Maher and Cork's Aidan Walsh. Work horses they are, and necessary for sure, but don't confuse them for DJ Carey, Noel McGrath or Patrick Horgan.

Village87

MfMan wrote: »

Balls. Walter is a laborious striker of the ball, poor on one side. Colin Fennelly is prone to awkwardness too. As is Tipp's Bonnar Maher and Cork's Aidan Walsh. Work horses they are, and necessary for sure, but don't confuse them for DJ Carey, Noel McGrath or Patrick Horgan.

Also players who lack Skill at the highest level but have good attitude, fitness and work rate.

Paul Murphy,
Conor Bowne,
Micheal Carey,
Conor Fogarty,
Bill Sheehan,
Paddy Deegan.
Joey Holden

All very dedicated and as stated needed as work horses and leadership but some of there hurling is very poor at times, fumbling, bad clearances, bad striking and dropped balls

kilkennyboy

Murphy
Wallace
Lawlor
Joey
Buckley
Deegen
Delaney
Padraig
Browne
Mullen
Tj
Donnelly
Ryan
Colin
Hogan.

Sub
Wally
Mossy
A Murphy
Alyward

Sub
Maher
Fogarty
D Mullen
P Murphy
Morrissey

That panel will take a bit of beating when we get everyone back.could pick up leinster title. think limerick will dominate Munster. And throw tipp across to ourside of the simi final.
Would like another crack at them after last year.

Alonzo Moseley

Village87 wrote: »

Kilkenny have not won an u21/u20 all ireland in 11/12 years and only won a handful of leinsters in that time. Its a cycle, we are an average team now and throw in the few Shamrock lads to come back we will be competitive.

We could lose to any team or beat any team on any given day as shown last year when beating Limerick. Our style of hurling and lack of success underage is a concern and i cant see this Kilkenny team doing much over the next 3/4 years

I'd agree with overall assessment but we have to stop beating ourselves up on this perceived lack of underage success
U20/21 is worrying but almost everywhere else is well above par
Minors have been consistently good since 2013, despite only one win
Robbed in 2015, beat both Munster finalists in each of last two years

SKC continue to produce outstanding teams,

And for the first time I can ever recall, Kilkenny had not just the most Fitzgibbon hurlers of any county, but also some of the very best (Donnelly, Mullens, Blanchfield, Bergin, Lawlor, Leahy, Scanlon)

Returning to U20/21
Cork havent won it since 1998, but i think we both agree they are producing excellent quality senior hurlers

In fact, despite Tipp having the Indian sign over them in last few years at underage, I think Cork have better players in the 20-23 year category

Jake Morris looks really good but a Galway friend who I really rate as astute doesn't fancy him and has seen him dozens of time.
Marquee names like Cadell, Brian Mc Grath and Mark Kehoe didn't really impress me in the Fitzgibbon Cup matches I saw this year and were easily outshone by likes of Fitzgibbon, Coleman, Kingston and even Robbie O' Flynn and Niall O' Leary

I also agree that I am unsure we can continue the luxury of playing both Colin and Walter
And for me if Richie Hogan is fit (big if but fingers crossed) we start with 4 really accurate shooters (TJ, Donnelly and Mullen are deadly accurate) for first time in years, and you could add Billy Ryan maybe as the direct runner.
I'd run Colin into ground for 50 mins then spring Walter
Can you imagine Paudie or Ronan Maher having got 50 mins of Colin Fennelly and then see a fresh Walter bounding over to them?
I also think Walter rarely delivers 70 mins but tends to put in devastating 10-15 mins shifts

Apologies if I made this point in an earlier post, but Colin's career is looking a lot like Mick's
A solid player for first 6-7 years, then a wrecking ball for last 3-4 years of his career
Maybe a bit of wishful thinking but Colin has been outstanding now for almost 2 years solid

BlachAmber

What was the story with Richie leahy on Sunday, is he injured does anyone know?

Pogue eile

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

Returning to U20/21
Cork havent won it since 1998, but i think we both agree they are producing excellent quality senior hurlers

In fact, despite Tipp having the Indian sign over them in last few years at underage, I think Cork have better players in the 20-23 year category

They are hiding them very well if they are! They are producing the exact same type of hurler that they have been for the last 20 years and that is not what they need. When Horgan and Harnedy (both will be wrong side of 30 this summer) go then they are even further behind. Not a single player on the Cork Senior panel with an intercounty AI medal, there is a reason that Tipp have an Indian sign over them.

Alonzo Moseley

Pogue eile wrote: »

They are hiding them very well if they are! They are producing the exact same type of hurler that they have been for the last 20 years and that is not what they need. When Horgan and Harnedy (both will be wrong side of 30 this summer) go then they are even further behind. Not a single player on the Cork Senior panel with an intercounty AI medal, there is a reason that Tipp have an Indian sign over them.

If you gave me three picks from younger crew of Tipp and Cork, I'd unhesitatingly take Fitzgibbon, Coleman and Kingston ahead of anything Tipp have same age bracket (I will reserve judgement on Jake Morris)

Related (and likely my final word on 2020 Fitzgibbon), UCC were brilliantly served on the line in both semi and final
Had Donnelly wrapped up in semi from the off and sprung a Cork senior forward Michael O' Halloran to mark Adrian Mullen (who had come in 5 mins before HT an looked deadly dangerous)
Also double marked Bergin in 2nd half rather than have a spare man as DCU pulled forwards back to combat wind

And in final, after initial barrage, they dealt fairly comfortably with Carlow's aerial bombardment thereafter

I observed a consistent calmness even when trailing, a willingness to make innovative changes like one on mullen and trust in their players to do the job

Above and beyond everything, they appear to be producing pure technically strong hurlers, so underage coaching in Cork is clearly concentrating heavily on skills.


I really feel Cork are getting their act together and expect them to be a major force this decade

corner back 2

Village87 wrote: »

Also players who lack Skill at the highest level but have good attitude, fitness and work rate.

Paul Murphy,
Conor Bowne,
Micheal Carey,
Conor Fogarty,
Bill Sheehan,
Paddy Deegan.
Joey Holden

All very dedicated and as stated needed as work horses and leadership but some of there hurling is very poor at times, fumbling, bad clearances, bad striking and dropped balls

Conor Browne has excellent first touch and striking as evidenced last Sunday. Deegans hurling has come on massively this year and his first touch in particular was excellent on Sunday and against Dublin. They all cant be TJ or Joe Canning you know.
We have been listening to the KK are finished mantra every league for the last 4 or 5 years and now KK people are taking it on themselves. Up to 7 starters missing against WX and we lose by 2 pts in horrendous weather and the sky is about to fall in. We are by no means favourites for the All Ireland but we can beat any of the other teams on a given day and when push comes to shove we will be competing at the business end of the season. Maybe that's not good enough for some here.

brookville

BlachAmber wrote: »

What was the story with Richie leahy on Sunday, is he injured does anyone know?

All the carlow college lads rightly given the weekend off after playing mid week.Blanch is out with a hamstring so will be gone for a few weeks.

Pogue eile

corner back 2 wrote: »

Conor Browne has excellent first touch and striking as evidenced last Sunday. Deegans hurling has come on massively this year and his first touch in particular was excellent on Sunday and against Dublin. They all cant be TJ or Joe Canning you know.
We have been listening to the KK are finished mantra every league for the last 4 or 5 years and now KK people are taking it on themselves. Up to 7 starters missing against WX and we lose by 2 pts in horrendous weather and the sky is about to fall in. We are by no means favourites for the All Ireland but we can beat any of the other teams on a given day and when push comes to shove we will be competing at the business end of the season. Maybe that's not good enough for some here.

Village is well able to speak for himself but I think you are being very unfair here and taking his post out of context, it was in reply to the ludicrous claim that you cant play for Kilkenny, Tipp or Cork unless you are very skillful, other counties you get away with it but not those three, I mean come on that just utter tripe.

citykat

corner back 2 wrote: »

Conor Browne has excellent first touch and striking as evidenced last Sunday. Deegans hurling has come on massively this year and his first touch in particular was excellent on Sunday and against Dublin. They all cant be TJ or Joe Canning you know.
We have been listening to the KK are finished mantra every league for the last 4 or 5 years and now KK people are taking it on themselves. Up to 7 starters missing against WX and we lose by 2 pts in horrendous weather and the sky is about to fall in. We are by no means favourites for the All Ireland but we can beat any of the other teams on a given day and when push comes to shove we will be competing at the business end of the season. Maybe that's not good enough for some here.

Couldn’t agree more. The same lads were posting the same rubbish last year. It’s mid February ffs.

kilkennyboy

Any truth in rumour yhoty was told to get himself in shape if he wanted to be involved this year.looked to have bulked up maybe in the wrong way.

mullinr2

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Any truth in rumour yhoty was told to get himself in shape if he wanted to be involved this year.looked to have bulked up maybe in the wrong way.

Was talking to a former player over the Xmas. He said that Mullen has great skill but he was concerned about his commitment and desire.
He was fairly average in Ballyhales semi and final. He wasn't great in All Ireland final either.

kilkennyboy

He is so young he would get himself in serious shape in 6 weeks.

Cornerback1

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

He's not from Kilkenny so cool your jets lads yea.

To call Wexford limited at this point is a nonsense. I thought their ball retention in the last 10 minutes was excellent. Their confidence with the ball in hand to keep possession until one of their runners gets free is admirable in my opinion. I don't like the short 5 yard passes that causes so many clusters of players but it's done with a clear outcome in mind and is very effective.

That's their style and they've been working on it since Davy Fitz came in. Thing is if they can do it in weather and conditions like Sundays, then they'll be well fit for it come the hard, dry ground in a few months time.

They have that license to bomb on, corner backs and all, knowing someone is covering back. Forwards have to be switched on to chase and track back - harder said than done. We all know it's easier running forward than back!! Once they break, they have options out wide.

They should use the odd bomb into Conor Mc Donald also - he's decent in the air. I'm sure Wexford were sick at losing to Tipp last year when they had the game under their control. Davy wants to lay down a marker and beat KK in every game. It's a big boost for them - all about the mind games.

robwen

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Any truth in rumour yhoty was told to get himself in shape if he wanted to be involved this year.looked to have bulked up maybe in the wrong way.

Seems he`s been getting himself in plenty of bother last few months

JJs Left Hand

How about people don't talk about a 20 year old kid

lim4ev

savannahkat wrote: »

You do not play inter-county hurling for Kilkenny, Cork or Tipperary if you are not skillful. You might get away with it in other counties but not in any of these counties.

Omg!!!!!

conor05

kilkennyboy wrote: »

He is o young he would get himself in serious shape in 6 weeks.

Exactly. You can guarantee he will be flying fit come June

Billy Ocean

savannahkat wrote: »

You do not play inter-county hurling for Kilkenny, Cork or Tipperary if you are not skillful. You might get away with it in other counties but not in any of these counties.

Hilarious levels of delusion and snobbery, every county has a mix of work horses and magicians especially in their forward line.

Swamp_Cat

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

He came on as a sub today so should see more game time over the course of the league

I sure hope so. Smart hurler for someone so young but Darren seems to be taking it more seriously and as I've said elsewhere, have a feeling he'll end up the more consistent and successful hurler. I like what I've seen from Patty as well but that's not much unfortunately. I think our club success & performances by some has us thinking some are ready who are far from it. Myself included though I've started to ditch the club tinted glasses. Hope I'm wrong & that many of these players continue to develop into serious IC hurlers.