Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

JJJackal · 13-06-2020 1:29pm

Greaney wrote: »

Judas Iscariot!!! this has got to be the most Demented traffic solution I've read on this thread so far!! Clearly written by someone who doesn't live in Galway city or county!! Has no idea of cycling advocacy priorities. I thought it would have been withdrawn after it was written it was so nuts. Has anyone any idea of the thousands of people using that hospital every day use public transport?? It's a teaching hospital with classrooms and a library linked to the university where the students, lecturers and staff go between both campuses every day!!! And as for the alternative location, you'd think Connemara didn't exist!!!

The cost!! The cost!!! Investment in public transport would be cheaper. Re-opening the Western rail corridor, in it's entirety would be cheaper!! Re-opening the line to Clifden along with the Western rail corridor would be cheaper.

And it's all still about owning a car!! It's all about the cars, still!! At this rate every household is going to need more than two cars, and frankly more than three parents to drive everyone everywhere then need to go!!

I wouldnt build GUH in the airport. That actually doesnt make sense when you have Merlin Park Campus available. GUH would benefit from relocation to Merlin for many reasons esp if the new ring road is built. With the new ring road and GUH in Merlin it would probably be quicker or as quick to get from Connemara to the "new" Galway Hospital.

Merlin (with the new proposed ring road built) has many advantages over GUH

1) easy access from all over Galway - adjacent easy access to 2 motorways and a ring road - the train doesn't pass to far from Merlin Park either - create a new stop in Renmore or Doughiska - needs thought obviously. Link with buses...
2) very large site so plenty of room for expansion
3) reduce city centre traffic substantially
4) parking
5) new would potentially have space...
6) old site could be used for offices, housing, expand university, commercial etc etc
7) potential to merge with other hospitals like Portuncula - likely not feasible to merge into current GUH due to limited space on site and poor access
8) re the university - you build a medical wing in Merlin. Students already do placements there; that link alone should not be reason to prevent building in Merlin.

edit you say these things would be cheaper eg western rail but a new hospital on a site like Merlin could be tailored to the needs of the public. Hard to see any easy spots left to build in GUH

ShaneC1600 · 13-06-2020 2:11pm

donvito99 wrote: »

It would seem to me to be obvious that a single track railway will serve (infrequently) the (very few) towns that happen to lie on the railway compared to a bus lane provides for bus services serving any town with a road, be it large or small. Why you'd prioritise a railway in a vast, low density rural region over a piece of infrastructure which could benefit much more of the region beats me.

An East - West dedicated bus corridor, from Knocknacarra via UHG, UCG, the City Centre/Ceannt Station, Lismore, Mervue, Ballybrit, Briarhill, Parkmore and out to some sort of P&R at the Airport would seem to me to be an investment that ranks far higher than a heritage railway to Ballyglunin. It would provide for more direct public transport services (by bus, less likely to have to change to a train) to the places people would seem to want to go, judging by Galway's outrageous congestion.

I dont disagree with all of that in fairness but you are discussing two different modes serving different areas so not really possible to compare.
The infrequent train wouldnt have to be infrequent. The very few towns served could easily be described as the northwest of Ireland or connecting the largest town in Galway to the city of Galway.
I agree the bus corridor through the city is important but I'd include GMIT on that route but again you add in the "heritage rail to Ballyglunin" as a condescending statement to belittle other peoples view to give your own view higher standing.
Would better planning not include the bus corridor going hand in hand with the double tracking of the rail line, station in Ros Cam and opening of the Western Rail Corridor.

Greaney · 13-06-2020 2:15pm

JJJackal wrote: »

I wouldnt build GUH in the airport. That actually doesnt make sense when you have Merlin Park Campus available. GUH would benefit from relocation to Merlin for many reasons esp if the new ring road is built. With the new ring road and GUH in Merlin it would probably be quicker or as quick to get from Connemara to the "new" Galway Hospital.

Merlin (with the new proposed ring road built) has many advantages over GUH

1) easy access from all over Galway - adjacent easy access to 2 motorways and a ring road - the train doesn't pass to far from Merlin Park either - create a new stop in Renmore or Doughiska - needs thought obviously. Link with buses...
2) very large site so plenty of room for expansion
3) reduce city centre traffic substantially
4) parking
5) new would potentially have space...
6) old site could be used for offices, housing, expand university, commercial etc etc
7) potential to merge with other hospitals like Portuncula - likely not feasible to merge into current GUH due to limited space on site and poor access
8) re the university - you build a medical wing in Merlin. Students already do placements there; that link alone should not be reason to prevent building in Merlin.

edit you say these things would be cheaper eg western rail but a new hospital on a site like Merlin could be tailored to the needs of the public. Hard to see any easy spots left to build in GUH

Students do 'placements' in hospitals all over the region, but not in the first couple of years. As a teaching hospital it's part of the NUIG teaching campus so they're more intertwined than that. That doesn't seem to be understood in these posts.

Speech Therapy is done on the University campus itself for example (near where the former Franciscan Nursing home was) Some lectures, classes and the library are in the Hospital. The OSCEs mostly take place in the hospital. Going between the two up to three times a day is no longer feasible with the moving of the hospital.

Moving UCHG is in the realm of 'if I won the Euromillions' as a conversation. That's not a good place to be if one is campaigning to get a greenway.

Deleted User wrote: »

Drama much?

Nope, just astonished. Stunned even. With all the 'shmart' one liners back and forth on this thread, I'm just stunned and having an ' I can't believe you said that' moment.

I'm also going to confess, 'lets move the hospital to deal with traffic' conversations here are really revealing. The HSE accountants would blow a gasket :rolleyes: Or just laugh in the face of whoever thinks that.

ShaneC1600 · 13-06-2020 2:16pm

JJJackal wrote: »

I wouldnt build GUH in the airport. That actually doesnt make sense when you have Merlin Park Campus available. GUH would benefit from relocation to Merlin for many reasons esp if the new ring road is built. With the new ring road and GUH in Merlin it would probably be quicker or as quick to get from Connemara to the "new" Galway Hospital.

Merlin (with the new proposed ring road built) has many advantages over GUH

1) easy access from all over Galway - adjacent easy access to 2 motorways and a ring road - the train doesn't pass to far from Merlin Park either - create a new stop in Renmore or Doughiska - needs thought obviously. Link with buses...
2) very large site so plenty of room for expansion
3) reduce city centre traffic substantially
4) parking
5) new would potentially have space...
6) old site could be used for offices, housing, expand university, commercial etc etc
7) potential to merge with other hospitals like Portuncula - likely not feasible to merge into current GUH due to limited space on site and poor access
8) re the university - you build a medical wing in Merlin. Students already do placements there; that link alone should not be reason to prevent building in Merlin.

edit you say these things would be cheaper eg western rail but a new hospital on a site like Merlin could be tailored to the needs of the public. Hard to see any easy spots left to build in GUH

Will the planners permit building in Merlin now though? From memory there has been lots of planning applications rejected due to different ecological reasons.

ezstreet5 · 13-06-2020 3:13pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Will the planners permit building in Merlin now though? From memory there has been lots of planning applications rejected due to different ecological reasons.

If development is proposed within the existing 'Community, Cultural, Institutional' zone of MPUH, there will be no problems. If they encroach into the surrounding 'Recreation and Amenity' zone (e.g., Galway Hospice), there is a planning risk.

Agree that the bus corridor serving GMIT and MPUH requires upgrading, particularly in the outbound direction.

JJJackal · 13-06-2020 3:28pm

Greaney wrote: »

Students do 'placements' in hospitals all over the region, but not in the first couple of years. As a teaching hospital it's part of the NUIG teaching campus so they're more intertwined than that. That doesn't seem to be understood in these posts.

Speech Therapy is done on the University campus itself for example (near where the former Franciscan Nursing home was) Some lectures, classes and the library are in the Hospital. The OSCEs mostly take place in the hospital. Going between the two up to three times a day is no longer feasible with the moving of the hospital.

I'm also going to confess, 'lets move the hospital to deal with traffic' conversations here are really revealing. The HSE accountants would blow a gasket :rolleyes: Or just laugh in the face of whoever thinks that.

You build lecture halls etc in Merlin. You do the OSCEs in Merlin. This is certainly not a good reason for this not to happen. Merlin is only 20 min out the road. You integrate NUIG with the new hospital campus. How do all the other universities in Ireland that are not colocated with a hospital manage? Literally no other university is colocated with a hospital?

Its not move the hospital to deal with traffic conversation. Moving the hospital could help. Someone suggested you could build it at the airport so just proposing a superior location. You dont move a hospital to deal with traffic obviously especially if your hospital is top drawer with all the facilities you need. You move the hospital because you need room to expand and you own a better site a few miles out the road. You move the hospital to create a better facility and improve services. You move the hospital because you can sell a middle of the city site for alot of cash (not enough to probably build the foundation of a new hospital but still alot of cash).

Greaney · 13-06-2020 3:46pm

JJJackal wrote: »

How do all the other universities in Ireland that are not colocated with a hospital manage? Literally no other university is colocated with a hospital?

Think about that....

It gives the medical degree in Galway an edge over others.

Meanwhile.... The Western Rail corridor doesn't need any CPO's to get people moving between Sligo & Limerick

JJJackal · 13-06-2020 3:47pm

Greaney wrote: »

It gives the medical degree in Galway an edge over others.

So why are the points for other medical colleges higher

Greaney · 13-06-2020 3:51pm

JJJackal wrote: »

So why are the points for other medical colleges higher

Like Trinity? Prestige

Meanwhile... Western Rail Corridor....

ezstreet5 · 13-06-2020 4:05pm

JJJackal wrote: »

You build lecture halls etc in Merlin. You do the OSCEs in Merlin. This is certainly not a good reason for this not to happen. Merlin is only 20 min out the road. You integrate NUIG with the new hospital campus. How do all the other universities in Ireland that are not colocated with a hospital manage? Literally no other university is colocated with a hospital?

Its not move the hospital to deal with traffic conversation. Moving the hospital could help. Someone suggested you could build it at the airport so just proposing a superior location. You dont move a hospital to deal with traffic obviously especially if your hospital is top drawer with all the facilities you need. You move the hospital because you need room to expand and you own a better site a few miles out the road. You move the hospital to create a better facility and improve services. You move the hospital because you can sell a middle of the city site for alot of cash (not enough to probably build the foundation of a new hospital but still alot of cash).

We don't need to play SimHospital here. There is a fairly detailed plan for new/relocated services to be delivered at MPUH.

https://saolta.ie/sites/default/files/publications/GUH%20Options%20Appraisal%20Report%20-%20Final.pdf#page=93

TCDStudent1 · 13-06-2020 10:18pm

Greaney wrote: »

Like Trinity? Prestige

Meanwhile... Western Rail Corridor....

Thats extremely debatable. Trinity are linked to James Hospital which is a short journey on public transport. They also have a large section in that hospital devoted to lecture rooms and a library. My guess is that Trinity's points are higher due to the link with James hospital (which generally has the most modern equipment etc.).

However, I agree with your point that talk of relocating Galway hospital is pie in the sky stuff! Although, in fairness to the discussion, most people said that at the start anyway.

Del.Monte · 14-06-2020 2:04pm

Isambard wrote: »

with the trend towards EVs, is that a problem?

Rail is rather an outmoded form of transport, technology will show a better way to do travel in the not so distant future that doesn't rely on rails to guide it.

It's not just the fuel that is the problem with persisting with private motoring - every aspect of them is a disaster when you add it up. Tyres (oil based) and a major problem in disposing of them; interiors more plastic than ever (oil based again); batteries....that's just off the top of my head.

intellectual dosser · 14-06-2020 7:15pm

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

Greaney · 14-06-2020 8:08pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

Thank you for sharing that.

They kept that close to their chest. I don't blame them, the treatment of pro-rail politicians has here to fore, has been nothing short of appalling.

I believe a greenway between Athenry & Tuam is still very do-able, if folk are willing to put the work in and explore all the options available.

TCDStudent1 · 14-06-2020 9:21pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

The Galway Easy Green candidate (who did not get elected) publicly stated he supported a greenway on the railway line.

14-06-2020 9:29pm

Greaney wrote: »

Thank you for sharing that.

They kept that close to their chest. I don't blame them, the treatment of pro-rail politicians has here to fore, has been nothing short of appalling.

I believe a greenway between Athenry & Tuam is still very do-able, if folk are willing to put the work in and explore all the options available.

Go ahead, outline what you think should be done to create a "car free" greenway

Personally I think the unused line which is CPO free and available for leasing from IR and provides a full, intact, off road route and could be in place within 12 months if kicked off today.....is the best option.

But I'm 100% open to hearing all viable alternatives that provide for a greenway.

Note, greenway funding is contingent on being built away from motorised traffic and being realistic no greenway will be built without funding from central government

ezstreet5 · 14-06-2020 9:34pm

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

The Galway Easy Green candidate (who did not get elected) publicly stated he supported a greenway on the railway line.

The same one who received 4.5% of first preferences and was eliminated after the 4th count. Granted, we are more one of the more regressive constituencies that returned the exact same three TDs.

westtip · 14-06-2020 9:36pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

That transport policy is at odds with their election manifesto in which they identified several rail projects they want to see happen but the WRC was missing on every count. We will have to wait to see what this draft PFG says, I can't see it listing the WRC but always surprised at what can happen in this farce.

Greaney · 14-06-2020 9:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Go ahead, outline what you think should be done to create a "car free" greenway

Personally I think the unused line which is CPO free and available for leasing from IR and provides a full, intact, off road route and could be in place within 12 months if kicked off today.....is the best option.

But I'm 100% open to hearing all viable alternatives that provide for a greenway.

Note, greenway funding is contingent on being built away from motorised traffic and being realistic no greenway will be built without funding from central government

I'll begin by saying that I don't think that green ways should only be built if they're CPO free. There seems to be an understanding on this thread that CPOs are fine for motor vehicles (bus lanes, motorways etc.) so I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In short, river easements linking the historical (Ancient East) sites of East Galway between Tuam & Athenry. Some folk have started on this project (I attended a presentation on it) and I think it looks like it has real potential.

ezstreet5 · 14-06-2020 9:55pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

Thanks for posting. This appears to be more detailed (44 pp.) and more current (30/4/2020) than the Greens' pre-election 7-page glossy from late January. The latter included some carefully crafted language regarding "derelict rail lines" that was so vague that it was actually meaningless. Regardless, I do not expect any announcements regarding a project of/on the WRC when the new government forms.

Muckyboots · 14-06-2020 9:55pm

Greaney wrote: »

I'll begin by saying that I don't think that green ways should only be built if they're CPO free. There seems to be an understanding on this thread that CPOs are fine for motor vehicles (bus lanes, motorways etc.) so I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In short, river easements linking the historical (Ancient East) sites of East Galway between Tuam & Athenry. Some folk have started on this project (I attended a presentation on it) and I think it looks like it has real potential.

Nothing more than a cheap distraction trick that's had it's rug pulled from underneath it by landowners before it got a chance to crawl. Even the the TD who commissioned it denies its' validity now. Welease the wepot wossy and give our heads some peace.

14-06-2020 9:57pm

Greaney wrote: »

I'll begin by saying that I don't think that green ways should only be built if they're CPO free. There seems to be an understanding on this thread that CPOs are fine for motor vehicles (bus lanes, motorways etc.) so I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In short, river easements linking the historical (Ancient East) sites of East Galway between Tuam & Athenry. Some folk have started on this project (I attended a presentation on it) and I think it looks like it has real potential.

Nothing against CPO's they serve a purpose, just pointing out they wouldn't needed in the case of the disused rail line

Got a route that we could look at?

I've looked at a map and can see no way to link up Athenry & Tuam in the manner you outlined so I'm really curious to see what route this would take.

ezstreet5 · 14-06-2020 10:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing against CPO's they serve a purpose, just pointing out they wouldn't needed in the case of the disused rail line

Got a route that we could look at?

I've looked at a map and can see no way to link up Athenry & Tuam in the manner you outlined so I'm really curious to see what route this would take.

You'd probably need some CPOs to provide access to all of the roads that the WRC crosses. Not all of that land is in the right of way. As for a way to link Athenry and Tuam, I would begin by linking Athlone to Galway via Athenry. Then you can begin to consider linking Tuam or Loughrea as subsidiary projects. Otherwise, there really isn't a project that would attract funding.

Greaney · 14-06-2020 11:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing against CPO's they serve a purpose, just pointing out they wouldn't needed in the case of the disused rail line

Got a route that we could look at?

I've looked at a map and can see no way to link up Athenry & Tuam in the manner you outlined so I'm really curious to see what route this would take.

No

Lord Glentoran · 14-06-2020 11:35pm

Greaney wrote: »

No

Seamus Heaney’s words apply here.

“Of open minds as open as a trap,

Where tongues lie coiled, as under flames lie wicks”

Geuze · 15-06-2020 12:00am

I note that although the GP support the reopening of further sections of the WRC, they also suggest that fewer trains stop at some stations, so as to increase average speeds.

15-06-2020 5:17am

Greaney wrote: »

No

Care to ask those folks who gave the presentation for the route?

Or let me know how to get in touch with them so I can ask them myself.

Sligo eye · 15-06-2020 8:18am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Care to ask those folks who gave the presentation for the route?

Or let me know how to get in touch with them so I can ask them myself.

I can only imagine the conversation you’ll want to have with them.

ShaneC1600 · 15-06-2020 8:41am

Why the fascination with a greenway between Tuam and Athenry though? The greatest merit a greenway has between the two towns is the disused CPO free railway, even in the unlikely event it becomes a used railway in the short term then why would a parallel greenway be built at a bigger cost to the council?
Especially when Athenry could be lobbying for Dublin to Galway greenway to go through the town.

Sligo eye · 15-06-2020 9:49am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Why the fascination with a greenway between Tuam and Athenry though? The greatest merit a greenway has between the two towns is the disused CPO free railway, even in the unlikely event it becomes a used railway in the short term then why would a parallel greenway be built at a bigger cost to the council?
Especially when Athenry could be lobbying for Dublin to Galway greenway to go through the town.

I would have thought that the Dublin to Galway greenway would be a higher priority; however Ciaran Cannon scuppered that route by siding with the landowners when the route was being planned. To run that greenway alongside the railway would be madness, not least because the greenway would stop the line between Athlone and Galway being doubled (which it needs) but also who wants to cycle beside an operational railway anyway?

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

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