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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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westtip

Sligo eye wrote: »

The ultimate diversionary tactic is the greenway campaign.

And the Velorail?

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

Bottom of page 5- https://cllr.galwaycoco.ie/media/MM.01.20%20Signed.pdf

MB they just cannot accept what is happening, give them time to get over it.

Greaney

Deleted User wrote: »

So you say you want people to look at alternatives like "this one" but won't provide any details around it.

I recall a few years ago something like that suggestion being mooted. No route was provided then either when requested.

I look forward to being proven wrong but until a route map is produced I will be calling it was it is, a diversionary tactic and will treat it as such.

Provide a route and we'll talk, otherwise expect to be ignored

Look, I don't actually have to prove anything to you. I'd really rather if you did ignore me., but you can't seem to allow anyone who's pro-rail alone on line. You jump into every conversation demanding attention. :rolleyes:

If our projects are successful, folk know. If they're not... we don't scream & shout online to set ourselves up for public failure. I've seen enough folk in our community do that and everyone is getting tired of it. Our group are busying away doing what we do. We collaborate with other community groups, fellow cycling activists, and environmental groups to achieve our goals.

We don't want another 'Grand old Duke of York' project in our community, where the leadership take everyone on a merry dance to end up with nothing... deflated and disappointed.

I was advised many years ago, to keep working committees small, and plans private, till there was something to show.... It was good advice.

[Deleted User]

Sligo eye wrote: »

The ultimate diversionary tactic is the greenway campaign.

Diverting against waste of an unused state asset, towards using it for the benefit of all the towns and villages all along the route, guilty as charged

Sligo eye

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you say you want people to look at alternatives like "this one" but won't provide any details around it.

I recall a few years ago something like that suggestion being mooted. No route was provided then either when requested.

I look forward to being proven wrong but until a route map is produced I will be calling it was it is, a diversionary tactic and will treat it as such.

Provide a route and we'll talk, otherwise expect to be ignored

The ultimate diversionary tactic is the greenway campaign.

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

So to answer everyones question 'no' we don't have paperwork we can upload on this forum. We're still at the google maps, pencil & paper stage It's also a moving target since the Velo is moving so slowly, so we're looking to engage with the velo and see can we offer support.... and maybe, if Loughrea don't want it through their town.... :rolleyes:

So you say you want people to look at alternatives like "this one" but won't provide any details around it.

I recall a few years ago something like that suggestion being mooted. No route was provided then either when requested.

I look forward to being proven wrong but until a route map is produced I will be calling it was it is, a diversionary tactic and will treat it as such.

Provide a route and we'll talk, otherwise expect to be ignored

[Deleted User]

Muckyboots wrote: »

Link to Abbeyknockmoy, on and from, the Quiet Man Greenway at Ballyglunin with the cyclway into the village already fully completed.

Thanks was going to point this out

Muckyboots

Sligo eye wrote: »

And to be clear; the goal is to have a second North-South rail route from Derry-Cork to act as a spine for redevelopment of the key towns and cities in the Western half of the country. The route that the Greenway camp are seeking is under active requirement for a rail service so is not available.

Bottom of page 5- https://cllr.galwaycoco.ie/media/MM.01.20%20Signed.pdf

westtip

Sligo eye wrote: »

And to be clear; the goal is to have a second North-South rail route from Derry-Cork to act as a spine for redevelopment of the key towns and cities in the Western half of the country. The route that the Greenway camp are seeking is under active requirement for a rail service so is not available.

Ah the Gerry Murray party line so...No problem with the North South Rail route, but why along the alignment of the Western Rail Trail route, no sane rail planner would choose that route, go look at the Road Lobbyists they always elect for an appropriate greenfield route that will deliver a proper product, why not follow their success instead of constantly seeking to use a C19th winding route that will not deliver what you are seeking to achieve.

Oh and is the Velorail in the same school a the saboteurs from the greenway camp?

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

It makes sense to look to the rivers & historical sites, so we were looking at places like Abbeyknockmoy along the way.

So to answer everyones question 'no' we don't have paperwork we can upload on this forum. We're still at the google maps, pencil & paper stage It's also a moving target since the Velo is moving so slowly, so we're looking to engage with the velo and see can we offer support.... and maybe, if Loughrea don't want it through their town.... :rolleyes:

Link to Abbeyknockmoy, on and from, the Quiet Man Greenway at Ballyglunin with the cyclway into the village already fully completed.

Sligo eye

westtip wrote: »

It's not a greenway between Tuam and Athenry. the fascination is with a greenway between Athenry and Enniskillen, connected to the great western greenway via a link to the Castlebar-turlough house greenway, in Mayo, and to the Dublin Galway greenway at Athenry. That is the fascination or fantasy we are seeking......and as we have always said if the route is required for rail then so be it in the future when it is possible....the message does not change.

And to be clear; the goal is to have a second North-South rail route from Derry-Cork to act as a spine for redevelopment of the key towns and cities in the Western half of the country. The route that the Greenway camp are seeking is under active requirement for a rail service so is not available.

westtip

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Why the fascination with a greenway between Tuam and Athenry though? The greatest merit a greenway has between the two towns is the disused CPO free railway, even in the unlikely event it becomes a used railway in the short term then why would a parallel greenway be built at a bigger cost to the council?
Especially when Athenry could be lobbying for Dublin to Galway greenway to go through the town.

It's not a greenway between Tuam and Athenry. the fascination is with a greenway between Athenry and Enniskillen, connected to the great western greenway via a link to the Castlebar-turlough house greenway, in Mayo, and to the Dublin Galway greenway at Athenry. That is the fascination or fantasy we are seeking......and as we have always said if the route is required for rail then so be it in the future when it is possible....the message does not change.

Greaney

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Why the fascination with a greenway between Tuam and Athenry though? The greatest merit a greenway has between the two towns is the disused CPO free railway, even in the unlikely event it becomes a used railway in the short term then why would a parallel greenway be built at a bigger cost to the council?
Especially when Athenry could be lobbying for Dublin to Galway greenway to go through the town.

Yes, indeed, our first priority was the Eurovelo and what we could draw from there. We know the funding is in place and the negations had begun. Alas, our TD did something I honestly can't understand and I still don't understand. He took a 'sure thing' that was going through the heart of his constituency and sabotaged it with press releases.

Meanwhile, our community were not on the eurovelo and were looking for routes off it. We had a meeting to explore linking the Eurovelo up through East Galway. It makes sense to look to the rivers & historical sites, so we were looking at places like Abbeyknockmoy along the way.

So to answer everyones question 'no' we don't have paperwork we can upload on this forum. We're still at the google maps, pencil & paper stage

It's also a moving target since the Velo is moving so slowly, so we're looking to engage with the velo and see can we offer support.... and maybe, if Loughrea don't want it through their town.... :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Sligo eye wrote: »

I would have thought that the Dublin to Galway greenway would be a higher priority; however Ciaran Cannon scuppered that route by siding with the landowners when the route was being planned. To run that greenway alongside the railway would be madness, not least because the greenway would stop the line between Athlone and Galway being doubled (which it needs) but also who wants to cycle beside an operational railway anyway?

In reality, it is the track between Athlone and Portarlington that needs doubling as it serves both Galway and Westport/Ballina.

Muckyboots

Sligo eye wrote: »

who wants to cycle beside an operational railway anyway?

I do- and have done. You haven't lived until you've tried it. Very different experience to cycling alongside a busy road. And how do assume that a greenway alongside the railway will be at the expense of double-tracking? CPO'ing a few meters of land alongside the alignment is a very different prospect to running a lazy line through a map that divides farms in half and resricts access to farmers.

Sligo eye

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Why the fascination with a greenway between Tuam and Athenry though? The greatest merit a greenway has between the two towns is the disused CPO free railway, even in the unlikely event it becomes a used railway in the short term then why would a parallel greenway be built at a bigger cost to the council?
Especially when Athenry could be lobbying for Dublin to Galway greenway to go through the town.

I would have thought that the Dublin to Galway greenway would be a higher priority; however Ciaran Cannon scuppered that route by siding with the landowners when the route was being planned. To run that greenway alongside the railway would be madness, not least because the greenway would stop the line between Athlone and Galway being doubled (which it needs) but also who wants to cycle beside an operational railway anyway?

ShaneC1600

Why the fascination with a greenway between Tuam and Athenry though? The greatest merit a greenway has between the two towns is the disused CPO free railway, even in the unlikely event it becomes a used railway in the short term then why would a parallel greenway be built at a bigger cost to the council?
Especially when Athenry could be lobbying for Dublin to Galway greenway to go through the town.

Sligo eye

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Care to ask those folks who gave the presentation for the route?

Or let me know how to get in touch with them so I can ask them myself.

I can only imagine the conversation you’ll want to have with them.

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

No

Care to ask those folks who gave the presentation for the route?

Or let me know how to get in touch with them so I can ask them myself.

Geuze

I note that although the GP support the reopening of further sections of the WRC, they also suggest that fewer trains stop at some stations, so as to increase average speeds.

Lord Glentoran

Greaney wrote: »

No

Seamus Heaney’s words apply here.

“Of open minds as open as a trap,

Where tongues lie coiled, as under flames lie wicks”

Greaney

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing against CPO's they serve a purpose, just pointing out they wouldn't needed in the case of the disused rail line

Got a route that we could look at?

I've looked at a map and can see no way to link up Athenry & Tuam in the manner you outlined so I'm really curious to see what route this would take.

ezstreet5

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing against CPO's they serve a purpose, just pointing out they wouldn't needed in the case of the disused rail line

Got a route that we could look at?

I've looked at a map and can see no way to link up Athenry & Tuam in the manner you outlined so I'm really curious to see what route this would take.

You'd probably need some CPOs to provide access to all of the roads that the WRC crosses. Not all of that land is in the right of way. As for a way to link Athenry and Tuam, I would begin by linking Athlone to Galway via Athenry. Then you can begin to consider linking Tuam or Loughrea as subsidiary projects. Otherwise, there really isn't a project that would attract funding.

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

I'll begin by saying that I don't think that green ways should only be built if they're CPO free. There seems to be an understanding on this thread that CPOs are fine for motor vehicles (bus lanes, motorways etc.) so I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In short, river easements linking the historical (Ancient East) sites of East Galway between Tuam & Athenry. Some folk have started on this project (I attended a presentation on it) and I think it looks like it has real potential.

Nothing against CPO's they serve a purpose, just pointing out they wouldn't needed in the case of the disused rail line

Got a route that we could look at?

I've looked at a map and can see no way to link up Athenry & Tuam in the manner you outlined so I'm really curious to see what route this would take.

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

I'll begin by saying that I don't think that green ways should only be built if they're CPO free. There seems to be an understanding on this thread that CPOs are fine for motor vehicles (bus lanes, motorways etc.) so I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In short, river easements linking the historical (Ancient East) sites of East Galway between Tuam & Athenry. Some folk have started on this project (I attended a presentation on it) and I think it looks like it has real potential.

Nothing more than a cheap distraction trick that's had it's rug pulled from underneath it by landowners before it got a chance to crawl. Even the the TD who commissioned it denies its' validity now. Welease the wepot wossy and give our heads some peace.

ezstreet5

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

Thanks for posting. This appears to be more detailed (44 pp.) and more current (30/4/2020) than the Greens' pre-election 7-page glossy from late January. The latter included some carefully crafted language regarding "derelict rail lines" that was so vague that it was actually meaningless. Regardless, I do not expect any announcements regarding a project of/on the WRC when the new government forms.

Greaney

Deleted User wrote: »

Go ahead, outline what you think should be done to create a "car free" greenway

Personally I think the unused line which is CPO free and available for leasing from IR and provides a full, intact, off road route and could be in place within 12 months if kicked off today.....is the best option.

But I'm 100% open to hearing all viable alternatives that provide for a greenway.

Note, greenway funding is contingent on being built away from motorised traffic and being realistic no greenway will be built without funding from central government

I'll begin by saying that I don't think that green ways should only be built if they're CPO free. There seems to be an understanding on this thread that CPOs are fine for motor vehicles (bus lanes, motorways etc.) so I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In short, river easements linking the historical (Ancient East) sites of East Galway between Tuam & Athenry. Some folk have started on this project (I attended a presentation on it) and I think it looks like it has real potential.

westtip

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

That transport policy is at odds with their election manifesto in which they identified several rail projects they want to see happen but the WRC was missing on every count. We will have to wait to see what this draft PFG says, I can't see it listing the WRC but always surprised at what can happen in this farce.

ezstreet5

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

The Galway Easy Green candidate (who did not get elected) publicly stated he supported a greenway on the railway line.

The same one who received 4.5% of first preferences and was eliminated after the 4th count. Granted, we are more one of the more regressive constituencies that returned the exact same three TDs.

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

Thank you for sharing that.

They kept that close to their chest. I don't blame them, the treatment of pro-rail politicians has here to fore, has been nothing short of appalling.

I believe a greenway between Athenry & Tuam is still very do-able, if folk are willing to put the work in and explore all the options available.

Go ahead, outline what you think should be done to create a "car free" greenway

Personally I think the unused line which is CPO free and available for leasing from IR and provides a full, intact, off road route and could be in place within 12 months if kicked off today.....is the best option.

But I'm 100% open to hearing all viable alternatives that provide for a greenway.

Note, greenway funding is contingent on being built away from motorised traffic and being realistic no greenway will be built without funding from central government