Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

end of the road · 09-06-2020 10:49pm

blackwhite wrote: »

It’s a bit rich to call others propagandists - whilst quoting a figure that includes passengers travelling on the Athenry-Galway section to try and justify the Athenry-Ennis section.

No doubt the WRC cheerleaders would try to claim Athenry-Galway commuters as being part of both Tuam-Galway numbers AND Limerick-Galway numbers if the Tuam segment was opened

The only way to get commuters to switch to rail instead of their current options is to provide a service that at the best least takes no longer than either driving or bus.

Tuam to Athenry to Galway isn’t going to compete on journey times with a proper bus service - the same failing that hits journeys from south of Gort into Galway. Once the bus is a quicker option (as well as more flexible in terms of final destinations) then commuters aren’t going to switch to rail.

no as without those trains there would be no train option for the people traveling from athenry to galway at those times most likely.
i would suspect that it's because of the wrc and it's services that these people have services at those times as i would suspect that there would be no more services between galway and athenry apart from existing galway-dublin had the wrc not been reopened.

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean waste opponents I'm sure because I for one am not opposed to rail, have used it a lot down through the years and am fully behind the full double tracking of all intercity routes, full electrification, increased frequency etc etc

A line serving a handful of people is a waste of time and money for all involved.

Hell even the bit thats built is a colossal waste.

Take a journey tomorrow from Athenry to Limerick. From station to station, its 1hr 6 mins by car

The same on offer on the irish rail site shows jounrey times ranging from 1hr 29 mins to 4hrs+.

Or looking at Galway to Limerick, train 1hr 54mins up to a staggering 5hrs versus the 1hr 17 mins by car. Even the Citylink bus can do it in 1hr 20 mins with the destination being Henry St in Limerick. You could even walk to the station from there, stop for a coffee along the way and still beat the train.

There are only 2 things which are keeping this section open. The massive subvention (it would be nearly cheaper to put the passengers into taxis) and free parking at some of the stations.

So no, you'll be hard pushed to get much sane support for a further waste beyond the wasteful portion of the WRC that is currently operating.

the only thing keeping any railway in ireland open is the subvention so subvention is meaningless.
the only way one is taking 5 hours to do galway to limerick is by going the long way around via athlone and portarlington and limerick junction.

09-06-2020 10:50pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Can your provide the status of this project, if there is a project at all?

Sure, design was tendered in 2014 and completed in 2015, and went to NTA for funding in 2016 I think it was, and is part of the 10 year GTS. Its still being worked on (doing what I don't know) but no further info beyond that as of yet.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

That's just conjecture. And yes, I am saying that you will have shorter travel times from Tuam to Dubln via Atherny by rail, compred to a bus from Tuam to Galway to Dublin.

Why on earth would you go to Galway on the way to Dublin???

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I doubt that is happening at all.

Well one thing you can be sure of, there's more bicycles going between Galway and Tuam than trains

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Please share, because a disabled family member living under my roof is only capable of using the train.

How do they get from the house to the train on a wet and windy day in November?

ezstreet5 · 09-06-2020 11:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, design was tendered in 2014 and completed in 2015, and went to NTA for funding in 2016 I think it was, and is part of the 10 year GTS. Its still being worked on (doing what I don't know) but no further info beyond that as of yet.

I'm not seeing an active project here. Nor am I disparaging it. I think a bus lane from Claregalway to Galway (as far as you can get it), is a fantastic idea, but I hope not the "ultimate solution."

Deleted User wrote: »

Why on earth would you go to Galway on the way to Dublin???

How would you go, if you lived in Tuam and did not have a car?

Deleted User wrote: »

Well one thing you can be sure of, there's more bicycles going between Galway and Tuam than trains

If you need that win, you can have it.

Deleted User wrote: »

How do they get from the house to the train on a wet and windy day in November?

We drive her to the station on those days. Those are the same days where a greenway would see no use whatsoever.

blackwhite · 09-06-2020 11:28pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

You're planning around the current business locations, where do future business' locate? Where do future workers live?

Lets invest in housing stock in Tuam, Athenry and in between where its affordable, lets invest in business parks in those towns, for example the area zoned near Athenry train station or in Oranmore with the train providing reasonable connectivity between all locations as well as Galway, Dublin and Limerick.

Alas, no. Lets do what we've always done in this country. Lets have the business' locate wherever they like and let the property developers throw up houses where they want. Lets wait for towns and business locations to be bursting at the seams with congestion before we consider how we solve those problems.

We need to think bigger, and we shouldn't be afraid to invest in the future rather than just the present.

So we build houses and industrial parks in Tuam - and then put a train line where the supposed business case is commuters from Tuam to Galway?

serfboard · 10-06-2020 1:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, design was tendered in 2014 and completed in 2015, and went to NTA for funding in 2016 I think it was, and is part of the 10 year GTS. Its still being worked on (doing what I don't know) but no further info beyond that as of yet.

Two problems in relation to it are:

1. The necessity to apply for CPOs past Fleming's garage.
2. Cutting off the right-turn from the Tuam road northbound onto Parkmore. A substantial amount of traffic uses this turn.

In 2017, Sean Canney said this:

Sean Canney wrote:

the long awaited bus lane from Claregalway to the city outskirts ... will be brought on line in the next year.

But like Sean Canney's rail review, it seems to have vanished.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why on earth would you go to Galway on the way to Dublin???

The only way to travel by public transport from Tuam to Dublin is via Galway.

There used to be a twice-weekly (Fridays and Sundays) bus service between Tuam and Athlone that would connect to Dublin services, but AFAIK that no longer runs.

The GoBus Ballina to Galway service uses the motorway, and the very obvious missing link there is a combined Motorway Service Station / P&R at Rathmorissey, that would allow people coming from both the M17 and M18 to transfer to Dublin-bound services.

But in another example of Irish "planning", the Service Station has been moved further towards the city along the M6, meaning a P&R at Rathmorissey will not be built.

Muckyboots · 10-06-2020 2:34pm

serfboard wrote: »

But in another example of Irish "planning", the Service Station has been moved further towards the city along the M6, meaning a P&R at Rathmorissey will not be built.

This so so true. Putting a service station, bus hub, park & ride facility at the Rathmorissey junction could do more to remove cars from Galway city than any other singular action, including a rail service from Tuam. Just fifteen minutes by car to Rathmorissey then choose your public transport option. Stop off for Dublin Limerick and Cork express buses, shuttles to Athenry train station and Galway City.

Sligo eye · 10-06-2020 2:46pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

This so so true. Putting a service station, bus hub, park & ride facility at the Rathmorissey junction could do more to remove cars from Galway city than any other singular action, including a rail service from Tuam. Just fifteen minutes by car to Rathmorissey then choose your public transport option. Stop off for Dublin Limerick and Cork express buses, shuttles to Athenry train station and Galway City.

It’s all about keeping the cars with you guys.

Muckyboots · 10-06-2020 2:51pm

Sligo eye wrote: »

It’s all about keeping the cars with you guys.

Sure we'll need them to drive to the train stations too, in the unlikely event services resume after a 45 year hiatus

.

Isambard · 10-06-2020 2:51pm

Sligo eye wrote: »

It’s all about keeping the cars with you guys.

with the trend towards EVs, is that a problem?

Rail is rather an outmoded form of transport, technology will show a better way to do travel in the not so distant future that doesn't rely on rails to guide it.

end of the road · 10-06-2020 3:10pm

Isambard wrote: »

with the trend towards EVs, is that a problem?

yes as they still require a disproportionate amount of space to accommodate them v their size.

Isambard wrote: »

Rail is rather an outmoded form of transport, technology will show a better way to do travel in the not so distant future that doesn't rely on rails to guide it.

rail is as modern as it gets.
whatever that will replace it will have some of the principals, something else will do the guiding but the capacity will be the same or greater yet the space used will be similar or lower.

donvito99 · 10-06-2020 3:31pm

Sligo eye wrote: »

It’s all about keeping the cars with you guys.

What a fantastically silly post.

People are proposing public transport solutions that might actually be more useful to more people - but if it doesn't involve the re-opening of a railway it is immediately shot down.

intellectual dosser · 10-06-2020 4:23pm

donvito99 wrote: »

I'm sure the people of Navan will be delighted to learn that the needs of a hypothetical, future commuting public are to be prioritised over their actual commuting misery.

Now we're just building to justify a railway. I don't understand why we should build housing in far away towns such that people have to commute long distances by train, no matter how cheap the land may be.

That's basically what you're proposing, businesses and housing estates all over the shop... except that they're on a meandering, single line railway.

Investing in proper public transportation in Galway city would do a great deal more to solve congestion than railway induced sprawl on the WRC will, and may even allow Galway to grow as a counterbalance to Dublin and generate much more economic activity in the West overall.

The reason the WRC has not been completed is not because people are scared.

I don't think anybody here promoting the WRC has advocated it be done at the expense of Navan, so I don't understand why Navan comes up. Similarly, to address the Galway part of your post, we're not saying the WRC is a silver bullet and that no other infrastructure projects or services be implemented to address the chronic issues in Galway City.

Athenry to Tuam doesnt meander, and given that all parties (including the actual authorities outside of this thread) are keen to double-track Galway to Athenry then only the ~20km from Athenry to Tuam would be single track, surely adequate to work with.

I'm suggesting that we stop letting the tail wag the dog and come up with a concrete strategy for planning. Housing, Investment, Transport are all problems for which the solutions are interconnected.

blackwhite wrote: »

So we build houses and industrial parks in Tuam - and then put a train line where the supposed business case is commuters from Tuam to Galway?

I don't know exactly what you mean here, but I suspect you're looking to bring it around to a new alignment from Tuam serving Parkmore and Ballybane business parks. By all means have at it, it would probably cost 20x what the WRC to Tuam would cost, more if you'd have to tunnel under the city to connect it to Ceannt. I would be very concerned about the growth potential of those two business centers.

Isambard · 10-06-2020 4:35pm

end of the road wrote: »

yes as they still require a disproportionate amount of space to accommodate them v their size.

rail is as modern as it gets.
whatever that will replace it will have some of the principals, something else will do the guiding but the capacity will be the same or greater yet the space used will be similar or lower.

what extra space does an EV take up?

ShaneC1600 · 10-06-2020 7:14pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

This so so true. Putting a service station, bus hub, park & ride facility at the Rathmorissey junction could do more to remove cars from Galway city than any other singular action, including a rail service from Tuam. Just fifteen minutes by car to Rathmorissey then choose your public transport option. Stop off for Dublin Limerick and Cork express buses, shuttles to Athenry train station and Galway City.

Would the P & R not be better located beside the railway and the motorway in Athenry or Oranmore? Then people travelling along the motorway or heavy rail from Dublin, Limerick or Mayo could then use the transport mode that best suited them to continue their travel.
It's like what your saying only I'm including the heavy railway into the location of the P & R scenario.

end of the road · 10-06-2020 9:11pm

Isambard wrote: »

what extra space does an EV take up?

not extra space, the actual existing space and the growth of space capacity to cater to growth of vehicles.

Muckyboots · 11-06-2020 11:05am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Would the P & R not be better located beside the railway and the motorway in Athenry or Oranmore? Then people travelling along the motorway or heavy rail from Dublin, Limerick or Mayo could then use the transport mode that best suited them to continue their travel.
It's like what your saying only I'm including the heavy railway into the location of the P & R scenario.

Rathmorrisey roundabout is already an established junction for Galway bound traffic and you couldn't drag Dublin, Cork & Limerick buses into Athenry or Oranmore town centres anyway. The rail park & ride offering will still be there for people who want it.

westtip · 11-06-2020 11:44am

Muckyboots wrote: »

Rathmorrisey roundabout is already an established junction for Galway bound traffic and you couldn't drag Dublin, Cork & Limerick buses into Athenry or Oranmore town centres anyway. The rail park & ride offering will still be there for people who want it.

I advocated a long time ago the critical strategic importance of that interchange of the North South/East West motorway and the nearby closed Galway Airport. There should be a bus interchange at that location, it should have been built into the design. The closed airport near to that junction could be used to relocate Galway University Hospital, and free up the footprint of land the hospital sits on in the city centre, but that is a whole different can of worms. BTW note I say relocation of the hospital not closing the hospital in the city centre.

Sligo eye · 11-06-2020 1:00pm

westtip wrote: »

I advocated a long time ago the critical strategic importance of that interchange of the North South/East West motorway and the nearby closed Galway Airport. There should be a bus interchange at that location, it should have been built into the design. The closed airport near to that junction could be used to relocate Galway University Hospital, and free up the footprint of land the hospital sits on in the city centre, but that is a whole different can of worms. BTW note I say relocation of the hospital not closing the hospital in the city centre.

Going against all trends in urban planning. That sort of suggestion would have been popular in the 70s and 80s but to move the hospital to an out of town location served only by cars would not be acceptable to planners these days.

ezstreet5 · 11-06-2020 1:17pm

westtip wrote: »

I advocated a long time ago the critical strategic importance of that interchange of the North South/East West motorway and the nearby closed Galway Airport. There should be a bus interchange at that location, it should have been built into the design. The closed airport near to that junction could be used to relocate Galway University Hospital, and free up the footprint of land the hospital sits on in the city centre, but that is a whole different can of worms. BTW note I say relocation of the hospital not closing the hospital in the city centre.

I don't get this post either. The Rathmorrissey junction is probably five miles from Galway Airport. There is no proposal or need to relocate GUH, and there is no want of land at MPUH, which has been the focus for a new elective hospital and other services.

westtip · 12-06-2020 10:55am

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I don't get this post either. The Rathmorrissey junction is probably five miles from Galway Airport. There is no proposal or need to relocate GUH, and there is no want of land at MPUH, which has been the focus for a new elective hospital and other services.

OK here was my thinking, five miles from the junction is nothing in terms of ambulance travel time from any point north/south on the new motorway. A lot of traffic comes into Galway creating congestion due to the hospital being in its current location; relocating the hospital to a brown field site the size of the airport would allow for adequate staff accommodation and family accommodation for critically ill patients, a 247 regular shuttle service to the hospital from city centre could be applied. Re the bus interchange at that junction it just makes transport planning sense; if all buses had to have a 2 minute pull in halt it would make sense for passenger interchange north south and east west and for passenger collection and drop off. Also park and ride into city centre;

It would release a huge landbank in the city centre for retail and student accommodation, mind you the retail might create more traffic problems! before someone jumps in and says it.

Anyway its just a thought, not much to do with the Greenway or railway debate so in truth probably belongs elsewhere...

ezstreet5 · 12-06-2020 8:27pm

serfboard wrote: »

Two problems in relation to it are:

1. The necessity to apply for CPOs past Fleming's garage.
2. Cutting off the right-turn from the Tuam road northbound onto Parkmore. A substantial amount of traffic uses this turn.

It was a 25 minute outbound drive from Liosban to Bóthar Na dTreabh (about 1 km) this afternoon at 14:45. Still partial lockdown with no school and no tourists. At that speed it was easy to observe sad faces pressed against the windows of the inbound Burke's Bus, and also that there simply isn't the real estate for bus lanes between Flemming's and the Bohermore Roundabout. From Bóthar Na dTreabh to the Castlegar Church would also be a challenge. So I would question the feasibility of the bus lane overall, and whether it is a solution for all of the 2,000 passengers/day using Burke's Bus already, in addition to those who are still driving in.

donvito99 · 12-06-2020 9:09pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

It was a 25 minute outbound drive from Liosban to Bóthar Na dTreabh (about 1 km) this afternoon at 14:45. Still partial lockdown with no school and no tourists. At that speed it was easy to observe sad faces pressed against the windows of the inbound Burke's Bus, and also that there simply isn't the real estate for bus lanes between Flemming's and the Bohermore Roundabout. From Bóthar Na dTreabh to the Castlegar Church would also be a challenge. So I would question the feasibility of the bus lane overall, and whether it is a solution for all of the 2,000 passengers/day using Burke's Bus already, in addition to those who are still driving in.

If widening isn't feasible, then the bus gate/limited private vehicle access measures proposed for Dublin via Bus Connects will do the job.

ShaneC1600 · 12-06-2020 9:58pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

It was a 25 minute outbound drive from Liosban to Bóthar Na dTreabh (about 1 km) this afternoon at 14:45. Still partial lockdown with no school and no tourists. At that speed it was easy to observe sad faces pressed against the windows of the inbound Burke's Bus, and also that there simply isn't the real estate for bus lanes between Flemming's and the Bohermore Roundabout. From Bóthar Na dTreabh to the Castlegar Church would also be a challenge. So I would question the feasibility of the bus lane overall, and whether it is a solution for all of the 2,000 passengers/day using Burke's Bus already, in addition to those who are still driving in.

Any costing for that project? Why would there be a need for that bus lane when we keep being told that there is no requirement for opening the railway from Tuam?

donvito99 · 12-06-2020 10:14pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Any costing for that project? Why would there be a need for that bus lane when we keep being told that there is no requirement for opening the railway from Tuam?

Because a bus lane will benefit lots and lots of people whereas a railway to Tuam ostensibly only serves people in the vicinity of Tuam.

ezstreet5 · 12-06-2020 10:34pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Any costing for that project? Why would there be a need for that bus lane when we keep being told that there is no requirement for opening the railway from Tuam?

Not that I've seen; maybe someone can comment. Regarding cost, I don't believe 100 million (if the WRC extension to Tuam costs that) is "excessive" and "hugely wasteful." I also believe that those making that particular argument are not being entirely genuine, as there are many other proposed programmes, plans, and projects that would be eschewed ahead of rail-to-Tuam that would save our decrepit State those much needed funds (and I never hear a peep about any of those here from the cost-cutters).

Personally, I believe that bus plus rail is the solution. That is, we should develop the bus lane along the Tuam Road as far in as feasible. Obviously, that won't be to Eyre Square. And we need the rail line to supplement the travel demand that isn't Parkmore or Wellpark or Liosbán, and if that costs 200 million, then do it. I can't tolerate politicians that would oppose that "investment" in East Galway. After all, 7.2 million has apparently been allocated for a pedestrian bridge across the Corrib at the cathedral.

ShaneC1600 · 12-06-2020 10:50pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Because a bus lane will benefit lots and lots of people whereas a railway to Tuam ostensibly only serves people in the vicinity of Tuam.

Are you sure it benefits lots and lots? I recon if the railway went went to Claremorris it would serve lots and lots too!!

donvito99 · 13-06-2020 10:08am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Are you sure it benefits lots and lots? I recon if the railway went went to Claremorris it would serve lots and lots too!!

It would seem to me to be obvious that a single track railway will serve (infrequently) the (very few) towns that happen to lie on the railway compared to a bus lane provides for bus services serving any town with a road, be it large or small. Why you'd prioritise a railway in a vast, low density rural region over a piece of infrastructure which could benefit much more of the region beats me.

An East - West dedicated bus corridor, from Knocknacarra via UHG, UCG, the City Centre/Ceannt Station, Lismore, Mervue, Ballybrit, Briarhill, Parkmore and out to some sort of P&R at the Airport would seem to me to be an investment that ranks far higher than a heritage railway to Ballyglunin. It would provide for more direct public transport services (by bus, less likely to have to change to a train) to the places people would seem to want to go, judging by Galway's outrageous congestion.

Greaney · 13-06-2020 10:09am

westtip wrote: »

The closed airport near to that junction could be used to relocate Galway University Hospital, and free up the footprint of land the hospital sits on in the city center, but that is a whole different can of worms. BTW note I say relocation of the hospital not closing the hospital in the city center.

Judas Iscariot!!! this has got to be the most Demented traffic solution I've read on this thread so far!! Clearly written by someone who doesn't live in Galway city or county!! Has no idea of cycling advocacy priorities. I thought it would have been withdrawn after it was written it was so nuts. Has anyone any idea of the thousands of people using that hospital every day use public transport?? It's a teaching hospital with classrooms and a library linked to the university where the students, lecturers and staff go between both campuses every day!!! And as for the alternative location, you'd think Connemara didn't exist!!!

The cost!! The cost!!! Investment in public transport would be cheaper. Re-opening the Western rail corridor, in it's entirety would be cheaper!! Re-opening the line to Clifden along with the Western rail corridor would be cheaper.

And it's all still about owning a car!! It's all about the cars, still!! At this rate every household is going to need more than two cars, and frankly more than three parents to drive everyone everywhere then need to go!!

Sligo eye · 13-06-2020 11:28am

Greaney wrote: »

Judas Iscariot!!! this has got to be the most Demented traffic solution I've read on this thread so far!! Clearly written by someone who doesn't live in Galway city or county!! Has no idea of cycling advocacy priorities. I thought it would have been withdrawn after it was written it was so nuts. Has anyone any idea of the thousands of people using that hospital every day use public transport?? It's a teaching hospital with classrooms and a library linked to the university where the students, lecturers and staff go between both campuses every day!!! And as for the alternative location, you'd think Connemara didn't exist!!!

The cost!! The cost!!! Investment in public transport would be cheaper. Re-opening the Western rail corridor, in it's entirety would be cheaper!! Re-opening the line to Clifden along with the Western rail corridor would be cheaper.

And it's all still about owning a car!! It's all about the cars, still!! At this rate every household is going to need more than two cars, and frankly more than three parents to drive everyone everywhere then need to go!!

Yes. It’s not at all about the bikes. Originally Westtip wanted a gas main and fibre on the line. Then he met eastwest and they came up with the cycle route strategy to try and stop the railway. Unfortunately for them their social media strategy backfired somewhat and ended up galvanising people to back the railway thanks to their tactics.

13-06-2020 1:17pm

Greaney wrote: »

Judas Iscariot!!! this has got to be the most Demented traffic solution I've read on this thread so far!! Clearly written by someone who doesn't live in Galway city or county!! Has no idea of cycling advocacy priorities. I thought it would have been withdrawn after it was written it was so nuts. Has anyone any idea of the thousands of people using that hospital every day use public transport?? It's a teaching hospital with classrooms and a library linked to the university where the students, lecturers and staff go between both campuses every day!!! And as for the alternative location, you'd think Connemara didn't exist!!!

The cost!! The cost!!! Investment in public transport would be cheaper. Re-opening the Western rail corridor, in it's entirety would be cheaper!! Re-opening the line to Clifden along with the Western rail corridor would be cheaper.

And it's all still about owning a car!! It's all about the cars, still!! At this rate every household is going to need more than two cars, and frankly more than three parents to drive everyone everywhere then need to go!!

Drama much?

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

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