The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Hotblack Desiato

DOS wrote: »

I went with an RC friend to mass in Portlaoise, massive turnout of all ages.

How many masses are there every Sunday and how does that compare with 30 years ago?

Any RC parish I'm familiar with has drastically cut the number of services.

Plenty of CoI churches are effectively mothballed, might hold one or two services a year.

Hooks Golf Handicap

The church blamed the success of the Equailty referendum on the Yes side using their own compassionate language against them.

If a country that claims to be 78% Catholic manages vote in abortion it's going to cause an upheaval in the Church hierarchy.
A blind eye could be turned to contraception, sex before marriage, co-habitation before marriage, even homosexuality but abortion contravenes a basic tenant of the faith.

Pope Francis visiting in the wake of this is going to heighten tensions among the clergy.

I wonder did they consider giving it fire & brimstone from the pulpits last weekend or did they correctly realise that any dictate from them would be toxic to certain demographic.

DOS

gmisk wrote: »

40% of who?
Catholic people in ireland?
Church attendances are in the toilet in ireland...


Mankind sins?


Naw do you mean for example the systematic and calculated cover up of the abuse of children throughout the world by organizations like the catholic church which is still ongoing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_by_country


Wow we are so lucky to have the "christian light" arent we!

40% Christian. Without Christianity we had children slaughtered to pagan God's, the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar). Christianity over 2 millenia was a benign influence. You are focusing on 50 years. The overall picture is one of great good.

The 10 commandments. Guidelines to live by. Fifth 'thou shalt not kill'.

Yeah_Right

pone2012 wrote: »

Sorry but no...if you've got no financial means to support a child then you've little business engaging in sexual intercourse

The primary biological function of coitus is procreation. If any said individual is too immature to realise that then they should pause and question their actions

This act first ask questions later retrospective nonsense is the reason for innumerable mistakes in every walk of Life

Additionally...if an individual cannot control their carnal desire, perhaps they should engage in s supplementary activity that does not end in procreation.

A little restraint goes a long way, but that's asking too much of some people I guess

I'm plowing my way through this thread trying to catch up because I don't like commenting without having caught up but this post cracked me up.

Carnal desire :eek: Are you Mills or Boone?
Supplementary activities what did you have in mind?
Poor people shouldn't have sex
Primary function is procreation :D:D You must have a very underwhelming coitus life.
A little restraint. Now you're talking :cool: Have you been reading 50 Shades?



Sorry. As you were. Back to the serious stuff.

Hotblack Desiato

jibber5000 wrote: »

Tuam closed down in 1961 when very few on the no side were alive.

Very few on the No side are over 57? Really? What a whopper.

Plenty of activists on the Yes side over 57, for what it's worth!

Zubeneschamali

DOS wrote: »

You probably aren't aware of this as you don't attend church I presume

Even as an atheist of 40 years standing, I still toddle along to a family anniversary mass or whatever now and again. I'd guess attendance in our old parish Church in Dublin is at about 10% of what it was 40 years ago.

As for the Church of Ireland, I'd be delighted if they made a comeback to stand as a relatively tolerant example of Christianity beside the Catholic Hierarchy. One would think that the people running away from the Catholic Church because of recent scandals might find a home there, but perhaps they are embarrassed that they can't sing hymns.

Of course, the CoI were against the 8th back in 1983 since it is the old Catholic Hospital ethos made law, something the CoI have tried to avoid since the foundation of the state with their Protestant ethos maternity hospitals.

ohnonotgmail

DOS wrote: »

40% Christian. Without Christianity we had children slaughtered to pagan God's, the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar). Christianity over 2 millenia was a benign influence. You are focusing on 50 years. The overall picture is one of great good.

The 10 commandments. Guidelines to live by. Fifth 'thou shalt not kill'.

Somebody should have told the crusaders who slaughtered muslims at the behest of the pope.

Hotblack Desiato

circadian wrote: »

I know quite a few Christians from Presbyterian and Church of Ireland backgrounds who are voting repeal.

Neither of those churches supported the introduction of the 8th in the first place.

SusieBlue

OldNotWIse wrote: »

How do they carry out standard abortions that aren't early stage?

Pre 12 weeks they'll be dealt with by taking two tablets and having a heavy period.

Mid term abortions do sometimes require suction to empty the womb, but we won't be legislating for those.
They'll only be occurring in cases of FFA, and in cases of FFA, the family will want a body to bury.
So there will be no dismembering/scraping.

gmisk

DOS wrote: »

40% Christian. Without Christianity we had children slaughtered to pagan God's, the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar). Christianity over 2 millenia was a benign influence. You are focusing on 50 years. The overall picture is one of great good.

The 10 commandments. Guidelines to live by. Fifth 'thou shalt not kill'.

I think the era of slaughtering children for pagan gods is over....


"the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar)"
Subtle! - BTW Nope those poster say 1 in 5 and are BS.


Ah yeah you are right lets wipe the last 50 years, priests they are all a great bunch of lads.

DOS

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How many masses are there every Sunday and how does that compare with 30 years ago?

Any RC parish I'm familiar with has drastically cut the number of services.

Plenty of CoI churches are effectively mothballed, might hold one or two services a year.

4 masses. Compares favourably I'd guess as the church was full at 10am and the 12.30 is the largest mass.

I know this will come as a shock to you and Zubes etc and you may need counseling. Some of you guys live in an imaginary world. I agree local pastors etc play a huge factor and Dublin may be different. But Christianity is strong in the country and won't be dead in 5 years.

Also a large amount leaving trad Christian churches for Pentecostal and Born Again churches, which I've attended too.

spookwoman

I cant get this out of my head now after DOS's post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojYPHr1kvTQ

Timberrrrrrrr

DOS wrote: »

40% Christian. Without Christianity we had children slaughtered to pagan God's, the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar). Christianity over 2 millenia was a benign influence. You are focusing on 50 years. The overall picture is one of great good.

The 10 commandments. Guidelines to live by. Fifth 'thou shalt not kill'.

And with Christianity we had pedophile priests raping children, then we had the RCC move those priests to different parishes so they could continue thier abuse of children.

kylith

DOS wrote: »

40% Christian. Without Christianity we had children slaughtered to pagan God's, the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar). Christianity over 2 millenia was a benign influence. You are focusing on 50 years. The overall picture is one of great good.

The 10 commandments. Guidelines to live by. Fifth 'thou shalt not kill'.

The ‘overall picture’ is one of shame, subjugation, and oppression.

Oh, and that commandment, as you’d want to know if you’re working with young Christians so you don’t give them the wrong information, is ‘thou shalt not MURDER’. Which abortion isn’t.

Zubeneschamali

DOS wrote: »

The 10 commandments. Guidelines to live by. Fifth 'thou shalt not kill'.

As a teen, I always had trouble with "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ass".

Hotblack Desiato

DOS wrote: »

4 masses. Compares favourably I'd guess as the church was full at 10am and the 12.30 is the largest mass.

How many of these masses did you go to that day? You can't say the church was full at 10:00 if you weren't there and you can't say 12:30 was the biggest mass unless you were at all the others.

It's also guaranteed there used to be more than 4 masses on a Sunday. Where I grew up there were 5-6 on a Sunday plus the Saturday early evening matinee.

circadian

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Neither of those churches supported the introduction of the 8th in the first place.

They did, but now both Churches have had a change of heart and there are some appeals for retaining the 8th. Although, to be fair, they both believe that it is an individual choice at the end of the day and not for the church to dictate how it's congregation votes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/presbyterian-church-urges-no-vote-in-abortion-referendum-1.3478231

ford2600

Leroy42 wrote: »

I would imagine that the amount of double registered Irish is far more of a problem.

Somehow or other I have 3 votes on Friday.

If I made any effort I could at least have one more. System is very open

I'm not sure how many people bother to vote more than once though

Calina

DOS wrote: »

gmisk wrote: »

40% of who?
Catholic people in ireland?
Church attendances are in the toilet in ireland...


Mankind sins?


Naw do you mean for example the systematic and calculated cover up of the abuse of children throughout the world by organizations like the catholic church which is still ongoing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_by_country


Wow we are so lucky to have the "christian light" arent we!

40% Christian. Without Christianity we had children slaughtered to pagan God's, the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar). Christianity over 2 millenia was a benign influence. You are focusing on 50 years. The overall picture is one of great good.

The 10 commandments. Guidelines to live by. Fifth 'thou shalt not kill'.

Spanish Inquisition. Crusades. The overall picture is one of a religion enforced by an imperial power. Colonialism. Plus the 10 Commandments are not Christian Commandments. IIRC they are Old Testament commsndments which I think makes them Jewish.

Frank Bullitt

DOS wrote: »

40% Christian. Without Christianity we had children slaughtered to pagan God's, the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar). Christianity over 2 millenia was a benign influence. You are focusing on 50 years. The overall picture is one of great good.

The 10 commandments. Guidelines to live by. Fifth 'thou shalt not kill'.

Not sure if you are being silly intentionally. Christianity is responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history.

Get real here mate.

DOS

gmisk wrote: »

I think the era of slaughtering children for pagan gods is over....


"the rate was calculated by historians at 1 in 4. (Sound familiar)"
Subtle! - BTW Nope those poster say 1 in 5 and are BS.


Ah yeah you are right lets wipe the last 50 years, priests they are all a great bunch of lads.

You fail to see the big picture. The reconversion of Europe to Christianity in the dark ages. The Catholic faith has survived penal laws, they had to pay a tax on glass (daylight robbery), priests banished, fathers to divide land among sons bar the eldest turned CoI, couldn't own a horse worth more than 5 pounds, no education, banned from jobs.. their faith survived.

It will survive a few anti religious like you too. Do you seriously think society would have been better off without Christianity? It's not perfect but far and away ahead of Paganism.

Where Tuam and abuses would be multiplied many fold.

spookwoman

It was only in 1869 that the catholic church outlawed abortions. before that Catholic teaching was that no homicide was involved if abortion took place before the foetus was infused with a soul, known as “ensoulment”. This was when the mother felt the first movements

In 1591, Pope Gregory XIV determined it took place at 166 days of pregnancy, almost 24 weeks. That is the current legal limit for abortion in the UK. It was Catholic Church teaching until 1869.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/catholic-church-teaching-on-abortion-dates-from-1869-1.1449517

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This post has been deleted.

ohnonotgmail

DOS wrote: »

You fail to see the big picture. The reconversion of Europe to Christianity in the dark ages. The Catholic faith has survived penal laws, they had to pay a tax on glass (daylight robbery), priests banished, fathers to divide land among sons bar the eldest turned CoI, couldn't own a horse worth more than 5 pounds, no education, banned from jobs.. their faith survived.

It will survive a few anti religious like you too. Do you seriously think society would have been better off without Christianity? It's not perfect but far and away ahead of Paganism.

Where Tuam and abuses would be multiplied many fold.

why is paganism the alternative?

SusieBlue

I don't think my blood pressure can handle tonights debate. Considering not watching at all.

gmisk

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Now? on this thread I would hope....

Calina

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If yes is carried, sometime on Saturday probably. But I have an orange alert for Thursday too.

circadian

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why is paganism the alternative?

If you're not Christian then you're obviously a Moon worshipping pagan.

I'll be honest. The religions that revere nature are probably more on point than most other religions based on some higher being.

Cupcake_Crisis

SusieBlue wrote: »

I don't think my blood pressure can handle tonights debate. Considering not watching at all.

I’m not. I’m going out for dinner and cocktails. Because after 2 weeks of campaign hell I deserve it.

That said... I will likely be home in time to catch it and won’t be able to help myself.

ohnonotgmail

circadian wrote: »

If you're not Christian then you're obviously a Moon worshipping pagan.

I'll be honest. The religions that revere nature are probably more on point than most other religions based on some higher being.

I mean, I LIKE the moon but i'm not sure i'm ready to worship it.