The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

uptherebels

DOS wrote: »

Excellent article, Eilis O'Hanlon Windows on the 'experts' arrogance.

https://amp.independent.ie/opinion/comment/abortion-is-an-issue-for-all-of-us-not-just-the-doctors-36926406.html

Imagine looking to doctors for expertise in relation to medical procedures. Shame on the governent

LuckyLloyd

DOS wrote: »

Excellent article, Eilis O'Hanlon Windows on the 'experts' arrogance.

https://amp.independent.ie/opinion/comment/abortion-is-an-issue-for-all-of-us-not-just-the-doctors-36926406.html

I wouldn't use the word "excellent" myself. I'd say "one eyed"; "selective"; "misleading"; "emotive".

B0jangles

cherryghost wrote: »

Are all the Yes posters in Bray taken down? Was in town on Sunday afternoon and I see no yes posters, just no posters and bare ties against poles.

They are very patchy - the Yes posters on the seafront have been repeatedly stolen (I've personally seen how they have vanished overnight 3 or 4 times) there are still a few Yes posters up now, but not many.

Elsewhere around the town it seems to be quite similar - 3 or 4 different No posters for every Yes one you see; I can't honestly tell if any of those ones have been stolen and replaced though, since they are not places I see every day..

gmisk

kanadams123 wrote: »

You have slightly contradicted yourself here.

Your first post in response to my post was
"I think its about not exporting abortion, personally"
Yet you agree
"that the poster is correct it's not about abortion"

The vote is to replace the current wording of the constititution with the following words.

Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy.

Wether they make abortion legal or not...its still about abortion...as the definition of abortion is defined as the termination of a human pregnancy.
You cant surely be saying the new article will contain the definition of abortion and allow legislation to be passed on it....yet..its not about abortion?

I think it appears as "white noise" because you and spookwoman just cant bear the fact that there is a desiving yes poster.
Wow..what a shock..not all yes voters are pure and honest. How scandelous is that? Who would have seen it coming. Again, dont be so cynical.

To be honest i give up at this stage...we will just conclude that stubborness is the cause of you ignoring my posts .not "white noise"

"I think its about not exporting abortion, personally"

I meant this in general as my opinion, rather than referring to a specific poster, apologies I could have been clearer, I am clearly multitasking badly.


Shall we move on? Rather than clogging up this thread?


Hug? or a high 5?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

gmisk wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-uk-ireland-abortion-law-4027157-May2018/
Factcheck on the claim that " Ireland's proposed abortion legislation more extreme than British law" made by Councillor Keith Redmond in a video for love both.

I will give you a clue....its FALSE

Dying to see what they come out with on Prime Time. Mattie Mc Grath's deliberate, malicious, bare faced lie about the Halappanavars seems to have contributed to their video clarifying they're supporting a repeal vote.

I'd put money on that poor Kriegel girl being mentioned.

spookwoman

DOS wrote: »

Excellent article, Eilis O'Hanlon Windows on the 'experts' arrogance.

https://amp.independent.ie/opinion/comment/abortion-is-an-issue-for-all-of-us-not-just-the-doctors-36926406.html

pot kettle black. No side have wheeled out their own doctors.
Also Eilis O'Hanlon is not what I would call a paragon or virtue. She disapproves of transgenders, immigration
https://imgur.com/NwrCu

Charmeleon

retro:electro wrote: »

This Referendum is about the removal of a piece of archaic legislation that has no business being here in 2018. Legislation pertaining to the regulation of abortion comes when and if the 8th is removed.
It is not a vote relating to killing babies vs saving babies. It’s about the complete overhaul of a primiative and barbaric piece of writing that helps no one.
The 8th is responsible for the death of women. Women who were fit and healthy at the start of their pregnancies.
The 8th is responsible for increased burden on families who have to leave the country to end their pregnancies for a spectrum of reasons; all worthy of the respect of this country.
The 8th only prioritises women’s lives over a fetus when we are at deaths door.
The 8th was brought in to prevent abortion and it failed.
The 8th has blood on its hands and deserves to be ran out of town.

Incorrect. It’s removing the acknowledgement of the right to life for the unborn in the constitution. If people are not convinced there are good arguments in favor of removing the acknowledgement of the right to life they must vote no to defend the constituition.

LuckyLloyd

spookwoman wrote: »

pot kettle black. No side have wheeled out their own doctors.
Also Eilis O'Hanlon is not what I would call a paragon or virtue. She disapproves of transgenders, immigration
https://imgur.com/NwrCu

I console myself in the knowledge that a Yes vote on Friday makes all these people go away. Just as they did after the Divorce referendum and after the Marriage Equality referendum. They'll be there in the background of course, but with every year that more of their base dies out and the catholic church becomes more irrelevant they become more irrelevant with it. We just need to sort primary education out after this and we're largely home and hosed. Shame it took a ****ing century but there you go.

kanadams123

gmisk wrote: »

"I think its about not exporting abortion, personally"

I meant this in general as my opinion, rather than referring to a specific poster, apologies I could have been clearer, I am clearly multitasking badly.


Shall we move on? Rather than clogging up this thread?


Hug? or a high 5?

Wow...just..wow!

Sure..lets just stop clogging the thread up as you are being slightly embarresed here about being wrong.

Wrapped up...HI 5 my friend!!!!

ohnonotgmail

spookwoman wrote: »

pot kettle black. No side have wheeled out their own doctors.
Also Eilis O'Hanlon is not what I would call a paragon or virtue. She disapproves of transgenders, immigration
https://imgur.com/NwrCu

A voice for compassion and reason for sure.

Hotblack Desiato

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

ROSA and PBP have done this on their posters.

I don't think it'd have been appropriate for the main Together for Yes campaign, they're portrayed by the more ignorant No voters as men-hating feminazis(tm) :rolleyes: as it is.

DOS

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Odd that they didnt mention that the No side have done the exact same. Even including a doctor on one of their posters with a stethoscope around their neck. Of course the No side have a lot less doctors that agree with them on how the 8th affects women's healthcare.

Factually incorrect as only 1,000 or so doctors out of 20,000 have declared for Yes.

Beware the silent No vote who can make up their own minds. On this thread we have 100 or so posters on the Yes side, 10 at most on the No side.

100 out of the adult population of the Republic.. it goes to show that the boards abortion thread is very small fry in the overall context of the debate. It barely registers.

For all the back slapping and liking and denying a foetus is a unique human life on here the real place to be is on the doorsteps, where I intend to be all this week.

God Bless.

Zubeneschamali

DOS wrote: »

Excellent article, Eilis O'Hanlon Windows on the 'experts' arrogance.

https://amp.independent.ie/opinion/comment/abortion-is-an-issue-for-all-of-us-not-just-the-doctors-36926406.html

When Boylan correctly points out that the RTE debate featured shouting-down of experts, O'Hanlon simply declares:

Dr Boylan couldn't be more wrong. It's not that experts are not listened to. Experts are listened to all the time. Experts run the world. It's that experts think their expertise should be the end of the argument rather than merely a contribution to it.

Which is bullsh!t. Boylan wasn't just saying that experts are not listened to, he complained that he personally, an expert, was literally shouted down during the debate.

Health Minister Simon Harris's condescending sniffiness about the "jeering, whooping, hollering, laughing, sniggering" during last Monday's RTE debate was certainly an unbecoming trait to see in such a young man.

It is amazing how someone can complain about Harris being condescending in a remark as condescending as that. And no notice at all paid to the fact that the jeering, whooping, hollering, laughing and sniggering happened and was completely unbecoming for a debate this serious.

Utterly tone deaf article which will annoy any Yes voter or fence-sitter who watched that debate.

Hotblack Desiato

kanadams123 wrote: »

Just saw a YES poster saying "this referendum is not about abortion"

Either give the FULL text of the poster, or a picture, please.

Posters* are bad enough for lack of context as it is, without selectively quoting them.



* we really need a word for the things which go on lampposts which doesn't get confused with the entities posting on Boards...

Captain Flaps

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already, but:

My name is Clara and this happened to me in 2005. I gave birth alone in the toilet of a Maternity Hospital.
............

I'm 16 weeks pregnant. In the middle of the night my husband and I present ourselves at hospital with a suspected miscarriage.

In a compassionate society, the doctor would say; "It looks like you're losing this pregnancy. You can wait and we'll scan you in the morning or, we can terminate now. It's up to you. I'll leave the two of you to talk it over."

That's not what happened because this is Ireland.

Instead we were told after examination; "It looks like you are losing the pregnancy. There is nothing we can do. We'll scan you in the morning."

It's 2 AM. They earliest they can scan is 10 AM.

It seems like hours go by. I'm in so much pain and losing so much blood. My husband keeps asking for help to be told over and over again by the nurses, there is nothing they can do. They know, and we know, the pregnancy is doomed but they keep saying we have to wait it out.

Eventually I get up to use the loo. Horrible pain and the cubicle is destroyed with blood. I look into the toilet bowl and cry.

My husband puts me back to bed. He tells the nurse I have given birth in the toilet. She checks the cubicle and puts a yellow sign outside 'Cleaning in progress'. After she checks me over, I'm told to stay put and wait for a scan in the morning.

Time goes by. No cleaner arrives. I can't rest knowing what's lying dead in the toilet bowl. My husband asks for help again. He's told, the cleaner has been phoned, be patient.

In an effort to give me some peace, my husband goes to the toilet cubicle and deals with the situation himself. I will never forget the expression on his face.

This is a maternity hospital. We've done everything ourselves. Had we known there would be no help for us at all, we would have stayed home. Nobody realises until it happens to them. There is no help.

When we finally leave the hospital 11 hours later, the 'Cleaning in progress' sign is still outside the toilet door.

.............
This is not maternity care. It is maternity carelessness. It was obvious our pregnancy was not viable. "There is nothing we can do" - is the 8th Amendment in action every day. It ties the hands of medical staff and leaves couples without dignity and with no say in their care.

Repeal the 8th for better maternity services in Ireland. Repeal to give couples a voice. #VoteYes

erica74

Repeal the 8th. Support every woman who lives in Ireland being able to access abortion in Ireland. Support every woman who lives in Ireland not being used as an incubator or a vessel when they are sick or incapacitated in some way. Support every woman who lives in Ireland by voting Yes.

DOS

spookwoman wrote: »

pot kettle black. No side have wheeled out their own doctors.
Also Eilis O'Hanlon is not what I would call a paragon or virtue. She disapproves of transgenders, immigration
https://imgur.com/NwrCu

'paragon of virtue'.. this is defined by whether you approve of transgenders or not!!

erica74

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already, but:

Don't worry if it has been posted already, repost and repeat these stories everywhere, these women deserve to be heard over and over until things change.

Captain Flaps

uptherebels wrote: »

Imagine looking to doctors for expertise in relation to medical procedures. Shame on the governent

Eilis O'Hanlon is from the North, so doesn't have a vote in this referendum. She's also a hardcore Unionist and a DUP supporter. SHould tell you all you need to know about her tbh.

spookwoman

In the last 30 mins or so Tim Jackson of Youth defense gatecrashed a meeting of yes politicians at a womens health event. This is the same guy who quote Ellen Coyne "is involved in rogue and misleading crisis pregnancy agencies," also
"Tim refused to answer questions on which organisation he volunteers with (it’s Youth Defence) if he believes abortion causes breast cancer (he does) and he claimed he was a member of the media (he isn’t)"

circadian

One thing I've noticed, in Dublin at least, is the amount of Yes badges and Repeal clothing compared to tge amount of No posters up. There's nearly 2 or 3 No posters for every Yes one but one the ground I've seen a handful of No badges and almost every other person is wearing something in favour for Repeal.

This for me shows massive support for Repeal per individual and in this part of the country at least, the No side seems to be a very loud minority.

Eggs For Dinner

With regard to posters, I was visiting my home parish over the weekend and how refreshing it was to see that the local residents association continue to have a blanket ban on all election/referendum posters. I mean, they are a blight on our country and relate to a bygone era, when information was not so easily accessed. Time to bin the whole thing

kanadams123

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Either give the FULL text of the poster, or a picture, please.

Posters* are bad enough for lack of context as it is, without selectively quoting them.



* we really need a word for the things which go on lampposts which doesn't get confused with the entities posting on Boards...

I didnt get a chance to take a pic earlier..but i will do so later on when i get the chance and post it here.

Charmeleon

erica74 wrote: »

Repeal the 8th. Support every woman who lives in Ireland being able to access abortion in Ireland. Support every woman who lives in Ireland not being used as an incubator or a vessel when they are sick or incapacitated in some way. Support every woman who lives in Ireland by voting Yes.

Do you support abortion on demand at 8 months?

DOS

erica74 wrote: »

Repeal the 8th. Support every woman who lives in Ireland being able to access abortion in Ireland. Support every woman who lives in Ireland not being used as an incubator or a vessel when they are sick or incapacitated in some way. Support every woman who lives in Ireland by voting Yes.

No. Retain the 8th. Protect the unborn, protect those with disabilities, DS etc. Offer women something other than a culture of death. Love the mother and baby but put the mother's life first in life threatening situations. Stop the tide of abortion on demand.

Long live life, humanity and Christian culture.

Pherekydes

DOS wrote: »

Excellent article, Eilis O'Hanlon Windows on the 'experts' arrogance.

https://amp.independent.ie/opinion/comment/abortion-is-an-issue-for-all-of-us-not-just-the-doctors-36926406.html

What vote on Thursday is she talking about?

Zubeneschamali

DOS wrote: »

'paragon of virtue'.. this is defined by whether you approve of transgenders or not!!

In most cases, we don't know if people "approve of transgenders". But O'Hanlon used her column to slag them off very publicly - "most look like Shane McGowan in a frock". Using your media soapbox to punch down at minorities and people suffering discrimination - not a paragon of anything.

gmisk

Charmeleon wrote: »

Do you support abortion on demand at 8 months?

Where are you getting 8 months from?
The proposed legislation is 12 weeks and its not "on demand" there is a 72 hour waiting time.

kanadams123

spookwoman wrote: »

In the last 30 mins or so Tim Jackson of Youth defense gatecrashed a meeting of yes politicians at a womens health event. This is the same guy who quote Ellen Coyne "is involved in rogue and misleading crisis pregnancy agencies," also
"Tim refused to answer questions on which organisation he volunteers with (it’s Youth Defence) if he believes abortion causes breast cancer (he does) and he claimed he was a member of the media (he isn’t)"

Can you provide a link/reference for this?

DOS

uptherebels wrote: »

Imagine looking to doctors for expertise in relation to medical procedures. Shame on the governent

Imagine his 5 predecessors are anti abortion.

Also he couldn't argue a point in a schools debate. An arrogant man.

Also ethical and moral issues aswell as medical.