10 people shot dead in Texas

Billy86

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

They aren't EVER banning guns. 99% of people there are responsible gun owners. If they didn't change it after Sandy Hook they will never change it.

Not all guns no, but they did have an assault weapons ban in place as recently as 15 years ago. Here's what the figures look like since they lifted it:



This was the fortieth school shooting in the US this year

wexie

Billy86 wrote: »

Not all guns no, but they did have an assault weapons ban in place as recently as 15 years ago. Here's what the figures look like since they lifted it:

This was the fortieth school shooting in the US this year

Totally not a gun culture problem though...

:rolleyes:

Manic Moran

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Most of these mass shootings seem to happen in NRA "country" where the easy availability of guns and loose laws are common. The South or Mid West, where the people are suspicious of those gun control folks in Washington and their efforts to rid the country of high calibre automatic rifles.

You'd think the penny would drop at this stage?

Sadly not.

Its highly likely some of the victims were related to NRA members as happened in other mass shootings.

RIP to the victims.

There has been a little investigation into the correlation of gun laws, gun violence, and gun politics around the US, inasmuch as there is any.

It's a sort of chicken-or-egg question. The people in a demographic likely to approve of firearms restrictions are the sorts of people who wouldn't choose to have a gun even if they were not restricted anyway. Do the laws result in less firearms, or are they a natural reflection of a lack of interest in the jurisdiction to begin with?

The end result is, unsurprisingly, that we have problems which are reflective of what the demographics are likely to get up to. Before this shooting hit the news this morning as I woke up, the headline was about the court appearance of a chap causing a multiple-fataility vehicle crash whilst under the influence of marijuana, which we have recently legalised. The teenaged girls he killed are no less dead than those shot in Santa Fe. Thus the discussion in Florida or Texas presumably revolves around firearms, and the discussion around California, well, it revolves around the next problem we have. Trend line is for a 70% increase in DUI this year. Choose your poison.

We have ended up with an unfortunate compromise with firearms, by attempting to accommodate everyone. "OK, we'll let you have guns to defend yourself, so the pro-gun people are happy, but we won't let you actually carry a gun to defend yourself legally, to keep the people who don't like guns around happy". I was watching last night the solicitor for Hawaii getting a total hammering from the 9th Circuit on this dichotomy in oral argument (Ruling has not yet been issued, but the judges ate him alive at the bench). the end result is that the lawful purpose of firearms is restricted, whilst the unlawful ones happen anyway.

Cast in point, my office has just relocated to Texas. I visited last week. There are multiple, really large signs (I'm talking 3'x18" here) saying that carrying firearms is prohibited in the office. Texas law allows for that. We have created our own barrels and we are the fish. The sign may make people feel better until an incident happens, but the effective range of a 'guns prohibited' sign is substantially less than that of a pistol. Platitudes about 'should be banned' or 'prohibitions on presence' are exactly that: There is no practical way of enforcing it.

And that's not misuse, it's their purpose.

That's a problem? Remember, the Holy Commandment correctly translated is not "Thou shalt not kill", it is "Thou shalt not murder".

I'm fairly sure most gun owners are parents and that they value their children's lives

Guilty. I've a daughter now, and child #2 is 36 weeks along. I am not a fan of being placed at a relative disadvantage to any who may wish them harm, especially as I continue to age. #2 will be 12 when I'm 55. I trust my capabilities more with a handgun than any other form of defensive strategy. When they are older, I trust my daughter more with a weapon than in a simple physical struggle with an assailant, who are usually male, bigger and stronger.

wes

Just saw this video:
https://twitter.com/ALT_uscis/status/997526127899004929

Some of these gun nuts are ****ing ghouls. Showing up after a mass shooting with a gun. What is wrong with these people. FFS, I do despair for the US sometimes. Something has gone profoundly wrong with some folks over there.

pjohnson

Manic Moran wrote: »

Guilty. I've a daughter now, and child #2 is 36 weeks along. I am not a fan of being placed at a relative disadvantage to any who may wish them harm, especially as I continue to age. #2 will be 12 when I'm 55. I trust my capabilities more with a handgun than any other form of defensive strategy. When they are older, I trust my daughter more with a weapon than in a simple physical struggle with an assailant, who are usually male, bigger and stronger.

What if she doesn't want to tote a gun? Would that be allowed or must she have a gun?

TeaBagMania

couple things.

the gun "owner" needs to be held responsible, if a kid gets a hold of their gun and commits a crime they should be just as responsible as the kid that pulled the trigger.
All guns should be in a safe when not in the owners possession.

would-be shooters: killing kids does nothing for your cause. if you want to see change start shooting politicians

wexie

Manic Moran wrote: »

We have ended up with an unfortunate compromise with firearms, by attempting to accommodate everyone. "OK, we'll let you have guns to defend yourself, so the pro-gun people are happy, but we won't let you actually carry a gun to defend yourself legally, to keep the people who don't like guns around happy". I was watching last night the solicitor for Hawaii getting a total hammering from the 9th Circuit on this dichotomy in oral argument (Ruling has not yet been issued, but the judges ate him alive at the bench). the end result is that the lawful purpose of firearms is restricted, whilst the unlawful ones happen anyway.

Cast in point, my office has just relocated to Texas. I visited last week. There are multiple, really large signs (I'm talking 3'x18" here) saying that carrying firearms is prohibited in the office. Texas law allows for that. We have created our own barrels and we are the fish. The sign may make people feel better until an incident happens, but the effective range of a 'guns prohibited' sign[/URL] is substantially less than that of a pistol. Platitudes about 'should be banned' or 'prohibitions on presence' are exactly that: There is no practical way of enforcing it.

I appreciate that whatever legislation could be introduced is likely to really only impact the already responsible gun owners. Even if there was an outright ban there are already so many guns in circulation it probably wouldn't make much of an impact.

So what's the solution? Is there a solution? ....education? More open carry to level the playing field? Healthcare?

Or do you think it's just going to be something that will just have to be accepted for now and worked on over generations?

All of this of course on the assumption you agree that there is a problem?

wexie

TeaBagMania wrote: »

would-be shooters: killing kids does nothing for your cause. if you want to see change start shooting politicians

I'm sure there are exceptions to be googled but certainly whatever mass and/or school shootings I can recall all had very little in the way of a 'cause'.

To be honest I think if there was a 'cause' they were trying to achieve beyond retribution or notoriety these things would be a lot easier to understand.

jaykay74

Manic Moran wrote: »

Guilty. I've a daughter now, and child #2 is 36 weeks along. I am not a fan of being placed at a relative disadvantage to any who may wish them harm, especially as I continue to age. #2 will be 12 when I'm 55. I trust my capabilities more with a handgun than any other form of defensive strategy. When they are older, I trust my daughter more with a weapon than in a simple physical struggle with an assailant, who are usually male, bigger and stronger.

God, I can't imagine living somewhere where I have to think like that. It seems a bit crazy to be perfectly honest.

suicide_circus

Just was we see road traffic accidents are an acceptable risk associated with private car ownership, Americans see spree shootings as an acceptable risk associated with the freedom of gun ownership.

super_furry

The thing that always blows my mind when something like this happens is the Irish people who leap to the defence of the NRA and the rights of everyone in the US to have military weaponry, no matter what the human cost. It's like they're so ingrained and invested in right-wing American identity politics that they feel they have to go along with that too.

jmayo

Billy86 wrote: »

Just another day in the US where things are so f***ing bleak that "at least they're old enough to speak out on behalf of their dead friends like in Florida, rather than have the NRA try to tell everyone it's all fine and carry on, like the much younger children in sandy hook" is about the best positive spin that can be put on this.

That is sad but true.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Most of these mass shootings seem to happen in NRA "country" where the easy availability of guns and loose laws are common. The South or Mid West, where the people are suspicious of those gun control folks in Washington and their efforts to rid the country of high calibre automatic rifles.

Sandy Hook is in Connecticut, not exactly bible belt territory.

Cina wrote: »

no, it's definitely banning the guns that needs addressing.

Aint going to happen at this stage and people around here and elsewhere need to cop on to that.
When it didn't happen after the likes of Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc it never will.

There are just too many guns out there, too many people (like Manic Moran) think they need them to protect themselves, too many people like shootin sh** and huntin, it is part of a lot of people's dna at this stage.

And the weird thing is there are huge number of weapons in some other countries, Serbia, Cyprus, Canada, Norway, Austria and in countries like Switzerland and Israel we are talking about actual proper military grade assault weapons in circulation and yet you don't have kids shooting up other kids in schools.

Another weird fooking thing in the states is that a lot of the ones harping on about being allowed own and carry all types of weapons are religious, are very anti abortion, but yet are 100% for frying people in the electric chair or lethal injection.

Very funny fooked up crowd if you ask me.
And by the looks of it has gotten way more fooked up during my lifetime and since the first president I noticed, one Jimmy Carter.

Manic Moran wrote: »

Cast in point, my office has just relocated to Texas. I visited last week. There are multiple, really large signs (I'm talking 3'x18" here) saying that carrying firearms is prohibited in the office. Texas law allows for that. We have created our own barrels and we are the fish. The sign may make people feel better until an incident happens, but the effective range of a 'guns prohibited' sign is substantially less than that of a pistol. Platitudes about 'should be banned' or 'prohibitions on presence' are exactly that: There is no practical way of enforcing it.
...
Guilty. I've a daughter now, and child #2 is 36 weeks along. I am not a fan of being placed at a relative disadvantage to any who may wish them harm, especially as I continue to age. #2 will be 12 when I'm 55. I trust my capabilities more with a handgun than any other form of defensive strategy. When they are older, I trust my daughter more with a weapon than in a simple physical struggle with an assailant, who are usually male, bigger and stronger.

Ever think about moving somewhere that doesn't make you think your office is unsafe because you are not all carrying weapons, or somewhere that your daughter doesn't have to carry a weapon in future ?

Just wondering.

Billy86

super_furry wrote: »

The thing that always blows my mind when something like this happens is the Irish people who leap to the defence of the NRA and the rights of everyone in the US to have military weaponry, no matter what the human cost. It's like they're so ingrained and invested in right-wing American identity politics that they feel they have to go along with that too.

Anyone jumping to the defense of a group that openly calls for terrorism deserves to take long, hard look in the mirror.

And the ultimate irony in all of this is that the NRA at this stage are little more than a branch of a hostile foreign entity to the US .

BattleCorp

super_furry wrote: »

when something like this happens is the Irish people who leap to the defence of the NRA and the rights of everyone in the US to have military weaponry.

I'm a gun owner and I'm not advocating that everybody should have a gun. It's important that guns are in the hands of responsible people.

Silane

super_furry wrote: »

The thing that always blows my mind when something like this happens is the Irish people who leap to the defence of the NRA and the rights of everyone in the US to have military weaponry, no matter what the human cost. It's like they're so ingrained and invested in right-wing American identity politics that they feel they have to go along with that too.

It blows my mind that Irish people think they can tell Americans what to do, when alcohol in Ireland kills more people per capita then guns murders in America. It also costs our economy massive amounts in lost productivity and the burden on the emergency services is massive. It's also probably a factor in most murders here, and then there's the domestic and sexual abuse that also goes along with it.

But hey, not everybody abuses alcohol here, most people use it responsibly, plus its just part of our culture, so it's grand. (Where have we heard that before?)

Wheres Me Jumper?

they do love their guns. some of those idiots would rather have their manhood chopped-off than lose their precious peacemaker

super_furry

Silane wrote: »

It blows my mind that Irish people think they can tell Americans what to do, when alcohol in Ireland kills more people per capita then guns murders in America. It also costs our economy massive amounts in lost productivity and the burden on the emergency services is massive. It's also probably a factor in most murders here, and then there's the domestic and sexual abuse that also goes along with it.

But hey, not everybody abuses alcohol here, most people use it responsibly, plus its just part of our culture, so it's grand. (Where have we heard that before?)

Poor strawman effort there. 3/10, must try harder.

jmayo

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm a gun owner and I'm not advocating that everybody should have a gun. It's important that guns are in the hands of responsible people.

Yeah but I bet you don't own a half dozen semi auto 30 round magazine weapons and walk round with a glock 17 or 357 magnum stuffed down your pants.
Well at least I hope not.

Silane wrote: »

It blows my mind that Irish people think they can tell Americans what to do, when alcohol in Ireland kills more people per capita then guns murders in America. It also costs our economy massive amounts in lost productivity and the burden on the emergency services is massive. It's also probably a factor in most murders here, and then there's the domestic and sexual abuse that also goes along with it.

But hey, not everybody abuses alcohol here, most people use it responsibly, plus its just part of our culture, so it's grand. (Where have we heard that before?)

Now that is some Whataboutery right there.

Congratulations you are this months award winner.

Harry Palmr

Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers

Wheres Me Jumper?

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers
Thoughts and Prayers.
Thoughts and Prayers

is there anything to be said for another mass Ted?

jaykay74

Silane wrote: »

but what about this thing...

indeed.

biggebruv

Wow sad that this is not shocking anymore it’s just the norm now news will be finished by 24hours probley just a few years ago this would have dominated for days

Paul_Mc1988

Silane wrote:

It blows my mind that Irish people think they can tell Americans what to do, when alcohol in Ireland kills more people per capita then guns murders in America. It also costs our economy massive amounts in lost productivity and the burden on the emergency services is massive. It's also probably a factor in most murders here, and then there's the domestic and sexual abuse that also goes along with it.But hey, not everybody abuses alcohol here, most people use it responsibly, plus its just part of our culture, so it's grand. (Where have we heard that before?)

Oh yeah im going around shooting people with my pint on a saturday night.

People kill themselves with drink they generally dont kill others and never on a scale like guns do.

punisher5112

Silane wrote: »

It blows my mind that Irish people think they can tell Americans what to do, when alcohol in Ireland kills more people per capita then guns murders in America. It also costs our economy massive amounts in lost productivity and the burden on the emergency services is massive. It's also probably a factor in most murders here, and then there's the domestic and sexual abuse that also goes along with it.

But hey, not everybody abuses alcohol here, most people use it responsibly, plus its just part of our culture, so it's grand. (Where have we heard that before?)

Please back this claim with facts please

Ash.J.Williams

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Sorry, but who in Ireland cares...

Care about dead school kids? Every parent I guess

Hitman3000

Another school shooting in America what a surprise.......

badtoro

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

A van has many other uses. A gun is designed to kill people.

Firearms have many other uses too. If a firearm is designed for hunting or for target sports, that the firearm can kill people doesn't mean it was designed to kill people. The same wrong argument can be applied to vans, they're not designed to kill people, but stand in front of one doing 100kmph and see what happens.

I own three firearms in this country. They've failed to kill anyone in the more than ten years I've owned them. Including my semi automatic.

Kermit.de.frog

Thoughts and prayers.

Hitman3000

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Thoughts and prayers.

Damn I forgot to add to my post...

BattleCorp

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah but I bet you don't own a half dozen semi auto 30 round magazine weapons and walk round with a glock 17 or 357 magnum stuffed down your pants.
Well at least I hope not..

I have 7 guns here in Ireland, 3 of which are semi automatic. All are fully licensed. I don't have 30 round magazines but I do have 10 round magazines. I have 2 .357 calibre guns. I don't carry any of them around. My guns are used at the range only.

I can assure you that all schools around me are at no risk of me going on a shooting spree. I have been vetted by the Gardai and I have been stamped sane. :-)

If a person is sane, responsible, law abiding and keeps their guns safely stored, then I have no problem with that.