Leinster v Munster Semi final Build up thread

Herpes Free Since03

I think people get a little carried away with Sexton tbh...if ROG was playing in this team...with this talent at his imperious disposal... we'd be talking confidently about a world cup victory

Podge_irl

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

I think people get a little carried away with Sexton tbh...if ROG was playing in this team...with this talent at his imperious disposal... we'd be talking confidently about a world cup victory

Nah. ROG simply didn’t have as much to his game. Sexton is incomparable in defence and is significantly better at bringing the ball to the gain line. ROG just didn’t have the physicality to play the game that way.

Trojan

Honestly, if ROG was playing with this team, we'd already have won the World Cup. The other countries would decide not to bother with the tournament at all and hand it straight to Ireland.

Trojan

Trojan wrote: »

Honestly, if ROG was playing with this team, we'd already have won the World Cup. The other countries would decide not to bother with the tournament at all and hand it straight to Ireland.

What, out of sympathy?

Herpes Free Since03

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What, out of sympathy?

Rog would fix them with his Blue Steel glare and they'd just cough up the ball continuously... Robbie K would be getting a hattrick in every game!

stephen_n

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

I think people get a little carried away with Sexton tbh...if ROG was playing in this team...with this talent at his imperious disposal... we'd be talking confidently about a world cup victory

So you’re saying this Leinster pack is significantly better than the Munster pack when ROG was playing? Bold statement fair play for admitting it.

Herpes Free Since03

stephen_n wrote: »

So you’re saying this Leinster pack is significantly better than the Munster pack when ROG was playing? Bold statement fair play for admitting it.

Yep, today's Leinster pack... with Munster halfbacks...no competition as you said

stephen_n

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

Yep, today's Leinster pack... with Munster halfbacks...no competition as you said

Much as I loved Stringer, Murray is a far better player.

Herpes Free Since03

stephen_n wrote: »

Much as I loved Stringer, Murray is a far better player.

So we have the best 3 halfbacks, I agree with your shout.

stephen_n

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

So we have the best 3 halfbacks, I agree with your shout.

Except for ROG of course who was vastly inferior to Sexton in every facet of the game apart from kicking.

Herpes Free Since03

stephen_n wrote: »

Except for ROG of course who was vastly inferior to Sexton in every facet of the game apart from kicking.

And if that was true... nobody would argue...
yet...the Irish....and world's greatest players still side with Rog... think I'll bow. to their knowledge instead of yours if you don't mind.

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

If we're including foreigners then Thorn is in the second row with O'Connell.

Every time I think I've finalised the list I remember someone else. I'd love to see this done comprehensively, would make an interesting 23.

Hayes wouldn't make the A team - sorry, not sorry thomond.

I'd imagine part of the reason Thorn isn't there is because he was only with Leinster for 3 months. Generally the players have to have some sort of longevity at the club to be considered for these type of lists.

And completely ignoring my above point, I'd have Keith Wood at hooker.

degsie

Which TV channels covering this? Not in the title unfortunately

Herpes Free Since03

degsie wrote: »

Which TV channels covering this? Not in the title unfortunately

Tg4 and sky

stephen_n

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

And if that was true... nobody would argue...
yet...the Irish....and world's greatest players still side with Rog... think I'll bow. to their knowledge instead of yours if you don't mind.

Quinny and Luke? Wow we really are elevating players now :pac:

Herpes Free Since03

stephen_n wrote: »

Quinny and Luke? Wow we really are elevating players now :pac:

Hey... it's not the first time Luke has been elevated well beyond his talents now is it.

stephen_n

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

Hey... it's not the first time Luke has been elevated well beyond his talents now is it.

Yep I heard someone refer to him as a journalist.

Clegg

I fear I'm going to reopen the tired debate again but here we go. People look back favourably on RoG because he was the 10 of the first Irish side in about 4 generations that was actually any good. But with Ireland I'd say he only had 3 or 4 good years.

Post WC 03 to pre WC 07 he was a very good 10. But he was disastrous in that 07 World Cup. Everyone was but he was particularly bad. His performance against Argentina was one of the worst I can remember. Obviously he's remembered for the drop goal in 09. But I think that swept all his poor performances during that 6N under the rug. I don't know exactly what happened to him in 07 but there was a definite downward trend in his performance.


We were crying out for a new 10 and Sexton was parachuted in as soon as possible. Took him a few years to settle as an international 10 but he hasn't looked back since. He's simply a more rounded player. No weaknesses in his game.

Zzippy

Ah it's not a good old-fashioned Leinster-Munster build up thread without a ROG v Sexton dick measuring contest.

I'm getting all nostalgic now...

Herpes Free Since03

Clegg wrote: »

I fear I'm going to reopen the tired debate again but here we go. People look back favourably on RoG because he was the 10 of the first Irish side in about 4 generations that was actually any good. But with Ireland I'd say he only had 3 or 4 good years.

Post WC 03 to pre WC 07 he was a very good 10. But he was disastrous in that 07 World Cup. Everyone was but he was particularly bad. His performance against Argentina was one of the worst I can remember. Obviously he's remembered for the drop goal in 09. But I think that swept all his poor performances during that 6N under the rug. I don't know exactly what happened to him in 07 but there was a definite downward trend in his performance.


We were crying out for a new 10 and Sexton was parachuted in as soon as possible. Took him a few years to settle as an international 10 but he hasn't looked back since. He's simply a more rounded player. No weaknesses in his game.

Right... Sexton plays badly.."oh he's carrying an injury..he sat out the captain's run"....
He tackles like a Glasgow hooligan...head first
He has definitely cracked under pressure and mouths off to the ref.... but..no... not a weakness to be seen!

You put it up to Rog and he'd carry the team on his back consistently... Sexton hasn't the same fortitude or strength of character...
He's good... but not Rog good ..and never will be... and he probably knows it this late in his career... forever the apprentice.

stephen_n

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

Right... Sexton plays badly.."oh he's carrying an injury..he sat out the captain's run"....
He tackles like a Glasgow hooligan...head first
He has definitely cracked under pressure and mouths off to the ref.... but..no... not a weakness to be seen!

You put it up to Rog and he'd carry the team on his back consistently... Sexton hasn't the same fortitude or strength of character...
He's good... but not Rog good ..and never will be... and he probably knows it this late in his career... forever the apprentice.

:pac::pac:

Herpes Free Since03

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

Right... Sexton plays badly.."oh he's carrying an injury..he sat out the captain's run"....
He tackles like a Glasgow hooligan...head first
He has definitely cracked under pressure and mouths off to the ref.... but..no... not a weakness to be seen!

You put it up to Rog and he'd carry the team on his back consistently... Sexton hasn't the same fortitude or strength of character...
He's good... but not Rog good ..and never will be... and he probably knows it this late in his career... forever the apprentice.

When has Sexton cracked under pressure?

Neil3030

Jonathan Sexton missed a penalty against New Zealand in 2013 so Ronan O'Gara is better.

Clegg

Deleted User wrote: »

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

Right... Sexton plays badly.."oh he's carrying an injury..he sat out the captain's run"....
He tackles like a Glasgow hooligan...head first
He has definitely cracked under pressure and mouths off to the ref.... but..no... not a weakness to be seen!

You put it up to Rog and he'd carry the team on his back consistently... Sexton hasn't the same fortitude or strength of character...
He's good... but not Rog good ..and never will be... and he probably knows it this late in his career... forever the apprentice.

When has Sexton cracked under pressure?

He did once tbf.

Subsequently he's beaten New Zealand twice and drawn with then too. S'all good too.

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

When has Sexton cracked under pressure?

Does that really matter when we are discussing fantasy? Not that it ever happened to ROG, 2011 RWC cough cough.

Clegg

stephen_n wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

When has Sexton cracked under pressure?

Does that really matter when we are discussing fantasy? Not that it ever happened to ROG, 2011 RWC cough cough.

He was ok that WC. He was a declining force by then and clearly past his best but made an ok showing in a few games.

The preceding World Cup is the head scratcher for me. He was at the top of his game. Been playing great stuff for Ireland and Munster. Then absolutely shat the bed. It's recognised that we got our preparation wrong in the lead up to the tournament. Nobody played well before of during the competition. But RoG was especially poor. It's inexplicable.

stephen_n

Clegg wrote: »

He was ok that WC. He was a declining force by then and clearly past his best but made an ok showing in a few games.

The preceding World Cup is the head scratcher for me. He was at the top of his game. Been playing great stuff for Ireland and Munster. Then absolutely shat the bed. It's recognised that we got our preparation wrong in the lead up to the tournament. Nobody played well before of during the competition. But RoG was especially poor. It's inexplicable.

I’m referring to the Welsh game in particular, not the whole tournament.

Clegg

stephen_n wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

He was ok that WC. He was a declining force by then and clearly past his best but made an ok showing in a few games.

The preceding World Cup is the head scratcher for me. He was at the top of his game. Been playing great stuff for Ireland and Munster. Then absolutely shat the bed. It's recognised that we got our preparation wrong in the lead up to the tournament. Nobody played well before of during the competition. But RoG was especially poor. It's inexplicable.

I’m referring to the Welsh game in particular, not the whole tournament.

I think some of the blame has to be apportioned to Kidney. He lost his nerve and reverted to RoG.

Sexton's was ropey off the tee. So he's not blame free either.

stephen_n

Clegg wrote: »

I think some of the blame has to be apportioned to Kidney. He lost his nerve and reverted to RoG.

Sexton's was ropey off the tee. So he's not blame free either.

Yep Sextons kicking was definitely off form that time. The Welsh intimidated ROG that day though and he bottled it.

Former Former

Serious nostalgia buzz alright.

For the weekend that's in it, ROG's achievements with Munster are up there with any player.

But when it comes to the step up to test level, Sexton has long left the debate behind. I think we all know that.

Del.Monte

One of my favourite Munster v Leinster moments ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfSkgzjCZ78

Buer

Del.Monte wrote: »

One of my favourite Munster v Leinster moments ever.

That's a good one for Leinster fans too. We remember it as the last meeting between the two sides where Munster were considered a better team. Well over 9 years and counting.

Appreciate the confidence boost!

twinytwo

Former Former wrote: »

Serious nostalgia buzz alright.

For the weekend that's in it, ROG's achievements with Munster are up there with any player.

But when it comes to the step up to test level, Sexton has long left the debate behind. I think we all know that.

How do you make that comparison though? Given how much rugby has changed in the last 10 years?

Sexton has been lucky enough to virtually never have played in a poor to average Irish team.

Other than NZ has never played against any of the great French/English or SA teams.

So people try to make a comparion against the two when you cant? You have no comparable data and everyone is biased anyway.

Heres Johnny

This might sound mad but why do almost half think o gara was useless and sexton great and another half think sexton is brutal and o gara great.
2 brilliant out halves there lads. You don't have to say one was a donkey just to make a point that you prefer one over the other.
Try make a reasonable argument it will get you a lot further.
I'm a Munster and ireland fan and I'll always remember O Gara as a great.
But I think now that sexton is also in the twilight of his career, a comparison can reasonably be made and sexton, in my opinion, shades it as the better player and if both in their prime were available to Joe Schmidt now I think he would pick sexton but for overall positive contribution to Leinster and Ireland over what O Gara did for Munster and Ireland, I'm not sure. Like it's so close I'll call it all square.
O Gara came in at a time when Irish rugby was just embracing professionalism and he did an extraordinary job of being better than what came before him, as did his team mates. Set new standards really.
Sexton has kicked on a little further, but no doubt o garas standards were part of sextons groundwork.
I think o gara will finish with more scores than sexton but great to have witnessed every Irish match these 2 have ever played.

Sorry for an untypical boards post!

Buer

Heres Johnny wrote: »

This might sound mad but why do almost half think o gara was useless and sexton great and another half think sexton is brutal and o gara great.

I honestly don't believe a single person thinks that.

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

How do you make that comparison though? Given how much rugby has changed in the last 10 years?

Sexton has been lucky enough to virtually never have played in a poor to average Irish team.

Other than NZ has never played against any of the great French/English or SA teams.

So people try to make a comparion against the two when you cant? You have no comparable data and everyone is biased anyway.

Funny you should say that considering when there was a debate on here as to which was better 2009 GS team or 2018 GS team it came out fairly evens.

We've better depth now so a better bench, but the consistent 15 O'Gara regularly played with were some of the best Ireland has ever produced.

I think there is little to divide them between their kicking and tactical kicking games. That's where the comparison ends though - Sexton is a better all around passer and distributor, he is stronger in defence and doesn't require his backrow to shore up his channel and I think he is a better on field leader.

I think Sexton is much more consistent in his performance level also.

Heres Johnny

Buer wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

This might sound mad but why do almost half think o gara was useless and sexton great and another half think sexton is brutal and o gara great.

I honestly don't believe a single person thinks that.

Sorry no I phrased that badly but everyone's strategy for debating the out half thing is to discredit the other. O Garas tackling and pointing out sextons miss v new Zealand.
They must have 200 caps between them now and the majority of matches have been good performances.
If we get another 10 year out half that does what these guys did we will be doing very well.

Herpes Free Since03

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Sorry no I phrased that badly but everyone's strategy for debating the out half thing is to discredit the other. O Garas tackling and pointing out sextons miss v new Zealand.
They must have 200 caps between them now and the majority of matches have been good performances.
If we get another 10 year out half that does what these guys did we will be doing very well.

It's traditional to have this little dance between both sides when a big game approaches...it's nothing more than chest thumping and getting into the mood of things.......before we crush the blue devils!

Former Former

Herpes Free Since03 wrote: »

It's traditional to have this little dance between both sides when a big game approaches...it's nothing more than chest thumping and getting into the mood of things.......before we crush the blue devils!

This is the spiciest build-up in a while. If I didn't know better, I'd say the Munster lads are quietly confident of an upset here.



Not that the cute hoors would admit it.

Buer

Nor is there any basis for it. They're so far off Leinster they might as well be playing a different sport.

I heard they're really excited about this match though. They've all packed their autograph books.

thomond2006

Sunglasses out today.

Former Former

twinytwo wrote: »

How do you make that comparison though? Given how much rugby has changed in the last 10 years?

Sexton has been lucky enough to virtually never have played in a poor to average Irish team.

Other than NZ has never played against any of the great French/English or SA teams.

So people try to make a comparion against the two when you cant? You have no comparable data and everyone is biased anyway.

O'Gara played in some great Irish teams too. Eddie's team of 04 - 07 was the 'Golden Generation' after all, while the post-2009 Kidney era, when Sexton emerged, was probably the worst since before Gatland arrived.

Again - not criticising O'Gara here. But, when you look at Sexton's achievements on the international stage, it really does eclipse what O'Gara achieved.

If you compare each against his contemporaries, and you say Sexton was the out-half for a Lions series win in Australia and a scarcely-believable draw in New Zealand, then look at O'Gara's Lions career as - let's be honest - squad filler, you get an idea of their relative standings.

Herpes Free Since03

Former Former wrote: »

This is the spiciest build-up in a while. If I didn't know better, I'd say the Munster lads are quietly confident of an upset here.



Not that the cute hoors would admit it.

Sur, isn't James Ryan only due a defeat...he may as well get it out if the way today and enjoy a few weeks in the sun... we're actually doing him a service today

Jump_In_Jack

Leinster are definitely favourites,

However, Munster have almost a full first choice team selected,
Only a few missing:
Archer at 3, Cloete/O’Donnell at 7, Bleyendaal at 10, Farrell/Taute at 13.

Leinster are missing a lot more quality:
O’Brien/Van der Flier/Leavy at 7, Heaslip at 8, Sexton at 10, Henshaw at 12, McFadden at 14, Kearney at 15.
Could add Gibson-Park at 21.

Heres Johnny

Former Former wrote: »

twinytwo wrote: »

How do you make that comparison though? Given how much rugby has changed in the last 10 years?

Sexton has been lucky enough to virtually never have played in a poor to average Irish team.

Other than NZ has never played against any of the great French/English or SA teams.

So people try to make a comparion against the two when you cant? You have no comparable data and everyone is biased anyway.

O'Gara played in some great Irish teams too. Eddie's team of 04 - 07 was the 'Golden Generation' after all, while the post-2009 Kidney era, when Sexton emerged, was probably the worst since before Gatland arrived.

Again - not criticising O'Gara here. But, when you look at Sexton's achievements on the international stage, it really does eclipse what O'Gara achieved.

If you compare each against his contemporaries, and you say Sexton was the out-half for a Lions series win in Australia and a scarcely-believable draw in New Zealand, then look at O'Gara's Lions career as - let's be honest - squad filler, you get an idea of their relative standings.

How does Sextons achievements on international stage eclipse O Garas? I've already admitted I think sexton is the better player but I can't agree with your point there at all.

As for the lions, that's a hell of a variable you have thrown in there. Jonny Wilkinson and Stephen Jones were up against O Gara, Sexton didn't have the same competition as far as I'm concerned.

pc7

Is it definitely unreserved seating in north and south? Just printed tickets and noticed seat numbers? Usually says unreserved I thought? Or is seat number just a count. Just trying to time things.

salmocab

pc7 wrote: »

Is it definitely unreserved seating in north and south? Just printed tickets and noticed seat numbers? Usually says unreserved I thought? Or is seat number just a count. Just trying to time things.

100% unreserved

Buer

Heres Johnny wrote: »

How does Sextons achievements on international stage eclipse O Garas? I've already admitted I think sexton is the better player but I can't agree with your point there at all.

Cap count aside how aren't they? He was key in beating NZ, winning three 6N titles and was nominated for world player of the year which is based on test match rugby alone.

Owen Farrell is a better player than Stephen Jones ever was. Jones was a completely solid pro who gave it his all. But he will never be thought of as a great despite getting the starting berth on back to back Lions tours.

ROG is an Irish legend and a superb servant who is rightly thought of in extremely high regards by many but his contributions at test level don't come close to Sexton beyond his longevity.

Shefwedfan

Heres Johnny wrote: »

How does Sextons achievements on international stage eclipse O Garas? I've already admitted I think sexton is the better player but I can't agree with your point there at all.

As for the lions, that's a hell of a variable you have thrown in there. Jonny Wilkinson and Stephen Jones were up against O Gara, Sexton didn't have the same competition as far as I'm concerned.

And the pi**ing contest begins !!!!!