Eir rural FTTH thread II

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah right , so even if it shows on the airwire site it still can take 1-2 for it to go live?

Depending on how much issues OpenEIR have with their build. Andy, you've been around here for long enough to have read about the issues with some exchanges.

/M

redunited

cnocbui wrote: »

Profit wasn't the main motive, bringing connection speed equity to a wider population was.

You basically just want people who are/were on 6.5 to stay on 6.5 for the next 15 years while everyone in an urban area is connected to fiber first, because that's where you live and it suits you, even though you and yours are already well served.

Greed is never satisfied.

Not at all, I would just like the same service that is being rolled out 5 doors down from me. I don't think that is too much to ask?

It's not my fault Eir didn't connect other people, but if the Fibre cable runs past me which it does I don't see my request to be connected as unreasonable?

redunited

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

What stage is the build at in your area? Are there distribution points on the poles (see the linked picture)?

How does the phone line come into your home, is it overhead from a pole or underground?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=453515&d=1529172905

Everything is being run underground, My existing cable runs underground. The main Fibre cable runs past my house.

turbbo

Marlow wrote: »

No. The commercial viability is not there.

Because for those who are on VDSL, the equipment cost is not paid off yet. You don't throw equipment out that hasn't reached the end of it's life-span unless you have a very very very valid reason.

And the majority of people, that order FTTH will go for the cheapest package. So the revenue of the VDSL equipment is greater.

Not only that, FTTH requires a complete new build all the way in the house. The installation means, that even after it becomes available a majority of premises stay with their current solution.

So, all in all, there is no real advantage upgrading VDSL customers for them. The ones on rural FTTH are "new" customers. Much greater viability.

/M

Totally agree.
You need a Siro or Virgin presence and by then you won't be remotely interested in Eirs offering unless it's cheaper(FTTC will do for now). The race for the urban areas is already being won by Siro.
Eir are only taking the semi rural areas for now as the sweet spot. Clusters of houses that don't have FTTC - it's a no brainer for them. Redoing FTTC areas as FTTH i'd guess is purely accidental in that there were a lot of potential customers in the same area that were not able to avail of FTTC. But I'd guess they would try to avoid redoing as much as possible. Rolling out to the half-suburbia/half-rural areas first - 90% of galways population

tsue921i8wljb3

redunited wrote: »

Everything is being run underground, My existing cable runs underground. The main Fibre cable runs past my house.

That is unfortunate as it is hard to tell where you stand. I'm not saying you will be covered but fibrerollout has been wrong in the past so the only thing you can do really is wait until the area goes live and hope you've been included.

cnocbui

redunited wrote: »

Not at all, I would just like the same service that is being rolled out 5 doors down from me. I don't think that is too much to ask?

It's not my fault Eir didn't connect other people, but if the Fibre cable runs past me which it does I don't see my request to be connected as unreasonable?

It is unreasonable. You are arguing that I and everyone like me should have had to wait another 10 years to get decent internet speeds so that urban dwellers can be upgraded from 30 Mbps to potentially 1 Gbps.

Any time spent connecting you is time not spent connecting someone who is only getting 6 - 9 Mbps at the moment. You are saying 'delay delivering FTTH to them and instead give it to me first.'

I would have just liked to get 20 Mbps, or goodness me, 30! When you got yours. Guess what I got? Tough luck, is what.

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Depending on how much issues OpenEIR have with their build. Andy, you've been around here for long enough to have read about the issues with some exchanges.

/M

aye but I must have selectively skipped certain posts or chose not to take it in. I thought as soon as it shows on airwire checker then its a matter of having an installer come out in next week or so normally .. not 'months' to go live

Andy From Sligo

redunited wrote: »

Not at all, I would just like the same service that is being rolled out 5 doors down from me. I don't think that is too much to ask?

It's not my fault Eir didn't connect other people, but if the Fibre cable runs past me which it does I don't see my request to be connected as unreasonable?

no, me neither - if the cable runs right past your premises then course you should be able to avail of it

Andy From Sligo

cnocbui wrote: »

It is unreasonable. You are arguing that I and everyone like me should have had to wait another 10 years to get decent internet speeds so that urban dwellers can be upgraded from 30 Mbps to potentially 1 Gbps.

Any time spent connecting you is time not spent connecting someone who is only getting 6 - 9 Mbps at the moment. You are saying 'delay delivering FTTH to them and instead give it to me first.'

I would have just liked to get 20 Mbps, or goodness me, 30! When you got yours. Guess what I got? Tough luck, is what.

well in all fairness most people for years who live in rural areas know that they are going to get shyte speeds for internet , and the urban get great speeds - its always been like that in the past and thats why I am so surprised (but glad for my own position) that they are bringing FTTH to rural areas like this - its always been in the past that if you do want good internet speeds and reliable internet connections move in towns or very near to towns and dont settle down to live in the countryside as (the same with all other infrastructure like busses/public transport etc) its gonna be cráp compared to urban areas.

ED E

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

aye but I must have selectively skipped certain posts or chose not to take it in. I thought as soon as it shows on airwire checker then its a matter of having an installer come out in next week or so normally .. not 'months' to go live

Read Martins posts again, they explained how their data is processed.


Just because an area is RFO does not mean there are appointments. Say Ballydehob goes "Live" on the 1st December the ISPs can sell it then but the appointments might start on the 20th of January if the team is currently elsewhere then on leave. Not even accounting for the storm season....

cnocbui

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

well in all fairness most people for years who live in rural areas know that they are going to get shyte speeds for internet , and the urban get great speeds - its always been like that in the past and thats why I am so surprised (but glad for my own position) that they are bringing FTTH to rural areas like this - its always been in the past that if you do want good internet speeds and reliable internet connections move in towns or very near to towns and dont settle down to live in the countryside as (the same with all other infrastructure like busses/public transport etc) its gonna be crcompared to urban areas.

Grand so, I'll tell Open Eir you have volunteered to be skipped so they can give your connection to some townie on 30 Mbps. Very decent of you, I must say, given how it will now be a 10 year wait for you to get connected.

There's a milk tanker passes my house every day. I'm going to flag it down tomorrow by standing in the road and waving an empty 2L container and then tell the driver that I would like to avail of his load, since he's passing.

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

no, me neither - if the cable runs right past your premises then course you should be able to avail of it

That's not how it works. There are different cables. Transmission and distribution are different technologies.

And to start with the subscribers the furthest away with a technology that doesn't decay in the normal sense over a distance is a sensible approach.

VDSL can achieve up to 300 Mbit/s over short distances, once OpenEir decide to implement that.

The Gbit speeds on FTTH are feasable for a select few.

There are 3 reasons, why people would opt for that one package:

- business case scenarios.
- needing the 100 Mbit upload
Or
- Willy waving.

The vast majority will go with 150 or 300 Mbit and the majority of consumers have plenty with 50-100 Mbit/s. More than they need in the next 2-3 years.

Sure, most consumer gear can't even reach 600 Mbit/s. Never mind Gbit.

/M

fritzelly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

no, me neither - if the cable runs right past your premises then course you should be able to avail of it

Not at all, pretty much every line has been accounted and every port assigned and cannot be released for 2 years from activation (think it's from activation/going live - maybe navi/marlow can confirm which). You could have an house not included and a DP that has no active connections but they have already been assigned and they cannot release them for other houses not originally included.
Same goes for new builds (since the rollout was mapped) - can only get connected if there are unassigned ports.

cnocbui

Marlow wrote: »

That's not how it works. There are different cables. Transmission and distribution are different technologies.

And to start with the subscribers the furthest away with a technology that doesn't decay in the normal sense over a distance is a sensible approach.

VDSL can achieve up to 300 Mbit/s over short distances, once OpenEir decide to implement that.

The Gbit speeds on FTTH are feasable for a select few.

There are 3 reasons, why people would opt for that one package:

- business case scenarios.
- needing the 100 Mbit upload
Or
- Willy waving.

The vast majority will go with 150 or 300 Mbit and the majority of consumers have plenty with 50-100 Mbit/s. More than they need in the next 2-3 years.

Sure, most consumer gear can't even reach 600 Mbit/s. Never mind Gbit.

/M

When you get on fibre, you realise that 90% of the internet can't feed it to you as fast as you can now receive it, even at the 150 Mbps rate.

Marlow

cnocbui wrote: »

When you get on fibre, you realise that 90% of the internet can't feed it to you as fast as you can now receive it, even at the 150 Mbps rate.

Actually .. that depends on what you do with it.

But give you the scenario of speedtest servers: there are VERY few speedtest servers, that have more than 1 Gbit/s uplink. Nevermind 1 Gbit/s in the first place.

Which is very funny, when 2 or 3 people with a Gbit/s connection try to do a speedtest on said speedtest server at the same time

I had access to 6 Mbit/s (actually 34 Mbit/s ... but we only paid for 6 of it, so that was the max) in 1997 ..... imagine the possibilities ... or not. But a friend of mine mailed 200 MB of MP3s to himself from said line, with the intention of wanting to download it at home .. on his ISDN line ...

Well, he never received that mail. Sendmail back then processed every single mail in memory. And that box was maxed out at 128 MB Ram. ... So .. 200 MB + 25% MIME encoding overhead .... and the server obviously crashed in the process.

I had to explain to him, that the whole idea of trying to download 200 MB (well .. actually 250 MB) of MP3s on his ISDN line would have been quite costly.

We have come a LOOOONG way since then. And I feel old.

/M

Andy From Sligo

cnocbui wrote: »

Grand so, I'll tell Open Eir you have volunteered to be skipped so they can give your connection to some townie on 30 Mbps. Very decent of you, I must say, given how it will now be a 10 year wait for you to get connected.

There's a milk tanker passes my house every day. I'm going to flag it down tomorrow by standing in the road and waving an empty 2L container and then tell the driver that I would like to avail of his load, since he's passing.

read my post again , I said "I am surprised! - but glad" ... now I have been living in rural ireland for 27 years and for most of those years its always been crap speeds, but I had always to think yes I would be better off living in town re internet speeds, but I prefer living out in the countryside - so it always has been live in countryside, put up with poor internet speed compared to those living in town and at best have got ADSL at 8mbps (well no, actually fixed dish at 11mbps down at the moment) .. but I have sucked it up and realised that at the end of the days houses are dotted here and there and that it must be a feat to get people on a fast fibre connection - in fact I have even said to others in the area about poor speeds that "we live in a village , what can we expect" .. for years I thought we were just going to get FTTC eventually for our village and then last July i see all these DP's going up on the poles and no-one was more surprised than me - I'll have t if its available and yes I am getting excited about getting it when I finally can. -

tsue921i8wljb3

Good news for the wee county!

https://twitter.com/openeir/status/1053306238078017538

fritzelly

So 3% of the rollout is basically complete - hmmm - I know!
Tho I did say many moons ago as it gets towards the finalisation date that live numbers would start to really ramp up.

adocholiday

Hi all, can anyone tell me what fibre cabling looks like on a pole? The pole outside our house has what looks like a big black spool of wire on it with a pretty thick cable coming off it. Would that be fibre cabling?

fritzelly

adocholiday wrote: »

Hi all, can anyone tell me what fibre cabling looks like on a pole? The pole outside our house has what looks like a big black spool of wire on it with a pretty thick cable coming off it. Would that be fibre cabling?

That is pretty much guaranteed to be fibre - is there black boxes at the top of the pole as well?

tsue921i8wljb3

adocholiday wrote: »

Hi all, can anyone tell me what fibre cabling looks like on a pole? The pole outside our house has what looks like a big black spool of wire on it with a pretty thick cable coming off it. Would that be fibre cabling?

It's likely fibre or ducting for fibre. If you could get a picture it would be confirmed.

Andy From Sligo

just sitting here wondering - hypothetically if OpenEir / every ISP offer 1gbps connection and (no lower - ie no 150 or 300mbps) how would the system cope ... er would it cope? .... would there be an impact (greatly/noticeably) on other customers because you are splitting what 4 or 8 connections on each DP is it? .. at the moment if it is to be believed that most people will opt for the 150mbps packages thats not too much of a problem because each customer should expect around 90-150mbps - but at the end of the day as far as I understand it , its still GPON FTTH because its the cheapest way to do it .. but it can still suffer from contention issues .. and how much would it degrade if everyone opted for the 1gbps from the ISP?

fritzelly

Reality is no one is downloading at those speeds constantly. As referred to earlier lots of servers cannot even serve content at those speeds. So unless everyone is downloading 4k Netflix at the exact same time no one is ever gonna notice any speed degradation.
And even then there is load balancing so that no one consumer is consuming all available BW - both from the ISP and the provider side. 1GB download is really not a consumer product - it's a business product and anyone paying the premium for it are a bit deluded that they are getting the best service.
Most servers don't even have 10/100/1000 cards, most have 10/100 to serve all their consumers

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

just sitting here wondering - hypothetically if OpenEir / every ISP offer 1gbps connection and (no lower - ie no 150 or 300mbps) how would the system cope ... er would it cope? .... would there be an impact (greatly/noticeably) on other customers because you are splitting what 4 or 8 connections on each DP is it? .. at the moment if it is to be believed that most people will opt for the 150mbps packages thats not too much of a problem because each customer should expect around 90-150mbps - but at the end of the day as far as I understand it , its still GPON FTTH because its the cheapest way to do it .. but it can still suffer from contention issues .. and how much would it degrade if everyone opted for the 1gbps from the ISP?

SIRO are happily chucking everyone on 1Gb connections with no discernible issues. As fritzelly says the overall usage is much lower than headline speeds.

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

just sitting here wondering - hypothetically if OpenEir / every ISP offer 1gbps connection and (no lower - ie no 150 or 300mbps) how would the system cope ... er would it cope?

Less than 15:1 contention per cluster, if everyone has 1000 Mbit/s. At least on the access side. And the system can be upgraded to 10gig symmetric per cluster if needed .. (opposed to 2.5 gig down/1.25 gig up)

That's still miles ahead of the 48:1 contention that Eir used to specify for ADSL plant and the unknown contention in excess of 100:1 on 3G/4G/LTE.

Average usage for a FTTH customer is 2-3 Mbit/s in reality Obviously, that's an average at constant use. And there are lots of spikes. So 2-3 Mbit/s is not usable for anyone.

/M

fritzelly

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

SIRO are happily chucking everyone on 1Gb connections with no discernible issues. As fritzelly says the overall usage is much lower than headline speeds.

Well that's just a sales ploy from them - end of the day selling 1gb connections is not gonna cost them anymore in BW but sounds great in the sales pitch

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

Reality is no one is downloading at those speeds constantly. As referred to earlier lots of servers cannot even serve content at those speeds. So unless everyone is downloading 4k Netflix at the exact same time no one is ever gonna notice any speed degradation.
And even then there is load balancing so that no one consumer is consuming all available BW - both from the ISP and the provider side. 1GB download is really not a consumer product - it's a business product and anyone paying the premium for it are a bit deluded that they are getting the best service.
Most servers don't even have 1Gb cards, most have 100mb to serve all their consumers

right , yeah thats true .. I wasnt taking into account that not everybody would be downloading all huge files all at the same time

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

Well that's just a sales ploy from them - end of the day selling 1gb connections is not gonna cost them anymore in BW but sounds great in the sales pitch

If course it doesn't. And of course it is.

Consumers don't have the gear to utilize the Gbit/s to it's full potential. End off.

/M

fritzelly

Marlow wrote: »

If course it doesn't. And of course it is.

Consumers don't have the gear to utilize the Gbit/s to it's full potential. End off.

/M

I'm constantly surprised by people expecting 1Gb download on their phones and laptops etc and having to explain to them the max they can get on a wireless connection to their router is around 200mb if their device even supports those speeds. And not just old people mind
And then finding out they only ever use wifi and asking why did you order the 1gb product then? Very common, even the 300mb is a waste of money for them

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

even the 300mb is a waste of money for them

depends on the upload they require. But for Joe Blogs the 150 Mbit/s package is going to more than plenty for a long long time.

OpenEIR are already planning a 100M/20M profile. Because even that's enough for most.

/M