Does this sound reasonable - divorce and mortgage

Paddy Cow

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Tempted to put the brakes on and say, "call me when you have this mess sorted".

That's the most sensible idea you've had so far. Seriously, he is never going to make you a priority. Do you really want to spend the next 10 years broke because you are supporting his ex and kids until they finish education? He is a wuss and worse, he's using you. Kick him out and in a few months when your emotions have settled, you'll look back and wonder how you put up with him for as long as you did. You obviously have a very kind nature and you deserve to be with a man who will treat you with respect.

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Ursus Horribilis

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Tempted to put the brakes on and say, "call me when you have this mess sorted".

I think you should do this. While he was never going to come to this relationship without baggage, what he's asking of you is utterly unreasonable. You needed to give him a boot up the arse a few months ago and he needs another one. I think you moving him in with you was a big mistake. Not only did it make it easy for him to not sort out this mess but it may have weakened his position when it comes to negotiations. Let him go rent somewhere first, then sort the legal side of things. Then worry about where to go next.

Paddy Cow

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He's not supporting his ex and kids on his own though. He is living in ONW's house and she's broke too because of the situation so it's her money going to support them as well. I'm not giving out about ONW but her partner and his ex need a reality check. The ex basically wants to maintain her married lifestyle ie mortgage and bills paid without her contributing or downsizing. The ex cannot afford this plus paying for himself. He needs to stop trying to please everyone for a quite life and start making proper decisions. The current situation is not sustainable.

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Big Bag of Chips

OldNotWIse wrote: »

As someone put it very well here lately, we would be out of pocket over 100k for her to live rent free...

Tempted to put the brakes on and say, "call me when you have this mess sorted".

Not "we".. you - you personally would be out of pocket €100,000 in order to get a joint mortgage with him on a 3 bedroom house for her and the children to live in. Unless you can find a 3 bedroom house (that would meet her standards!) for €100,000 - and don't forget the interest you will be paying on the mortgage too.

You, personally would be contributing at least €100,000 to the purchase of a house that you will never be allowed step foot in! And that will be given to someone else's children when you've paid it all off.

You are currently subsidising him so that his wife can live exactly as if they were still together. You are picking up her slack by indirectly contributing to her living costs, directly contributing to his living costs. Is he paying you any rent? Or is he living rent free in your house, so that his wife can live rent free elsewhere.

Why is it your probelm - and why are you out of pocket so that your partner's ex doesn't have to be. Separation is difficult, and it involves big changes. 1 house becomes 2 - costs increase, disposable income lessens. If one parent stayed at home when cicrumstances allowed, they may hve to go back to work when circumstances change.

I think you need to tell him to come back to you when things are sorted. If you ask him to leave, you can be fairly certain he will move straight back in there, and nothing will ever get sorted. (But at least you won't be subsidising her life).

Tell me how

Big Bag of Chips wrote:

I think you need to tell him to come back to you when things are sorted. If you ask him to leave, you can be fairly certain he will move straight back in there, and nothing will ever get sorted. (But at least you won't be subsidising her life).

Unfortunately, I think this could be the reality.

It might be small consolation to realise this is best rather than being in such an imbalanced relationship but hopefully you know that you deserve a partner who isn't just relying on your financial capability.

Neyite

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

If you ask him to leave, you can be fairly certain he will move straight back in there, and nothing will ever get sorted. (But at least you won't be subsidising her life).

Ex wife is cohabiting with her own partner in the marital home so that would be interesting. :P

But that also adds to the mess of this. Not only is ONW subsidising her partner to the extent it financially benefits the ex wife but also possibly the ex-wife's current partner.

The sooner ONW's partner gets actual legal advice and gets the financials sorted with a clean break the better.

OldNotWIse

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I don't have a problem with him supporting his kids. In fact one of the things that I really like about him is that he is a good father to them. What I don't like is a situation where he is left with 800 per month from a net take home of 4000, just to keep his ex in the lifestyle that she is accustomed to. I think what he pays is completely excessive.

The problem with him is that it seems to be black and white/ all or nothing. When I say anything about how much he pays, it's met with, "I've got to think about the kids" - as if another guy in the same situation and paying say 2000 per month, is some kind of deadbeat. Neither him or her seem to realize there is a middle ground. He acts like he is the first man in the history of the world to have kids, and doesn't realize that you can make it work and you can be a good dad... without making your new partner feel like something you scrapped off the bottom of your shoe

OldNotWIse

Neyite wrote: »

Ex wife is cohabiting with her own partner in the marital home so that would be interesting. :P

But that also adds to the mess of this. Not only is ONW subsidising her partner to the extent it financially benefits the ex wife but also possibly the ex-wife's current partner.

The sooner ONW's partner gets actual legal advice and gets the financials sorted with a clean break the better.

His ex doesn't live with her fella - presumably she's afraid she would lose benefits
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Ursus Horribilis

He has the luxury of being black and white because you're enabling him. Has he got a solicitor and if so, what advice has he been given?

Big Bag of Chips

OldNotWIse, I fell so sad for you. Because you honestly sound like a decent person, and obviously you are if you are already thinking about contributing to their children's inheritance. In a relationship it is almost guaranteed that one partner will subsidise/carry the other partner at various stages throughout life. My husband has a daughter from a previous relationship, and for a period when he was out of work (by our choice - after our first child he stayed at home, and I returned to work as I was the higher earner at that time) I continued to pay the maintenace to his ex for their child. Because, it was our choice that he stay out of work, and his child didn't stop eating/growing/needing things during that time.

We had a joint account and the money just kept coming out of it, even though not much of his money was going in to it.

Same in a situation where a man might move in with a mother and her children, that man is obviously going to contribute a lot, financially to their lives.

But that is not what is being asked of you. You are being asked for something way beyond that. They are separated. They now to have live like that. Money has to be separate. No judge in the country would rule that he pays 100% of his children's expenses while she pays close to zero. But the longer it continues (with you subsidising it) the more of a case she has to claim that he could always afford it, so now why suddenly can he not?
He needs to start making this official. Legal. He needs to realise he is being taken for a ride, and he is now allowing you to be taken for a ride. Unless he takes steps to sort out a separation (and that means actually legally sorting it out - not asking you to sort it out by buying a house for them). He need to speak to a solicitor and see what is reasonably expected of him. If he can (reasonably) give more to his children than he is required, then he can agree to that, or set up separate accounts for them to pay extra in to.

Talking to you, and coming up with harebrained schemes is not sorting anything out. It's avoiding everything and hoping, magically, it will just all work out to everyone's (except yours) satisfaction.

homerjay2005

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I don't have a problem with him supporting his kids. In fact one of the things that I really like about him is that he is a good father to them. What I don't like is a situation where he is left with 800 per month from a net take home of 4000, just to keep his ex in the lifestyle that she is accustomed to. I think what he pays is completely excessive.

The problem with him is that it seems to be black and white/ all or nothing. When I say anything about how much he pays, it's met with, "I've got to think about the kids" - as if another guy in the same situation and paying say 2000 per month, is some kind of deadbeat. Neither him or her seem to realize there is a middle ground. He acts like he is the first man in the history of the world to have kids, and doesn't realize that you can make it work and you can be a good dad... without making your new partner feel like something you scrapped off the bottom of your shoe

do you mind giving an overview of what he spends 3200 a month on them for? are they paying equally- why does he not see what she is spending and match her equally?

if not, he needs to wake up and stop being taken for a fool.

also, is the kids living with you instead, out of the question?

the ideal scenario - house is sold, split equally the money and you and the kids all live together, the dead beat mam moves on with her life with her new BF.

Bob24

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the ideal scenario - house is sold, split equally the money and you and the kids all live together, the dead beat mam moves on with her life with her new BF.

Yes but based on previous posts the mother will probably never let that happen without making life a hell for everyone involved. Of course we don’t have all the details but based on what’s been posted it sounds like she’s using the kids to emotionally and financially blackmail their father and he’s falling for it. I know I will sound harsh but it seems like to me she sees the kids as her best asset to guarantee her lifestyle, so for pragmatic reasons she cannot let then move out.

homerjay2005

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes but based on previous posts the mother will probably never let that happen without making life a hell for everyone involved. Of course we don’t have all the details but based on what’s been posted it sounds like she’s using the kids to emotionally and financially blackmail their father and he’s falling for it. I know I will sound harsh but it seems like to me she sees the kids as her best asset to guarantee her lifestyle, so for pragmatic reasons she cannot let then move out.

so she stays with them in a rented accomadation. she cant have everything while the father suffers.

if the father is taking majority of the resonsibility with their upkeep, he should have at least 50/50 custody.

OldNotWIse

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do you mind giving an overview of what he spends 3200 a month on them for? are they paying equally- why does he not see what she is spending and match her equally?

if not, he needs to wake up and stop being taken for a fool.

also, is the kids living with you instead, out of the question?

the ideal scenario - house is sold, split equally the money and you and the kids all live together, the dead beat mam moves on with her life with her new BF.

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes but based on previous posts the mother will probably never let that happen without making life a hell for everyone involved. Of course we don’t have all the details but based on what’s been posted it sounds like she’s using the kids to emotionally and financially blackmail their father and he’s falling for it. I know I will sound harsh but it seems like to me she sees the kids as her best asset to guarantee her lifestyle, so for pragmatic reasons she cannot let then move out.

Mortgage is 2200 (they re mortgaged several times to bail themselves out, when she wasn't working), and she demands 1000 for bills, food etc. So that leaves him with 800. He has done it for so long I think he sees it as normal, and that isn't me defending his position.

And yes agree re the kids - she will use them to squeeze as much out of him as she can.

OldNotWIse

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so she stays with them in a rented accomadation. she cant have everything while the father suffers.

if the father is taking majority of the resonsibility with their upkeep, he should have at least 50/50 custody.

See this is what I don't get - the whole obsession with not wanting to rent. If you want to leave something to your kids, you should be willing to work for it. How can she defend a position that refuses to work, refuses to downsize, refuses to rent, expects everything to be paid for her - and not be willing to compromise in any way, shape or form. By all means you can "refuse" to do anything. I could have refused to got out of bed today and get myself t work, and that's my prerogative - but the upshot of that would be that I can't then demand that someone else give me the life I would have if I chose to go to work.

Some people are just unreasonable.

Ursus Horribilis

Does he have a solicitor?

OldNotWIse

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Does he have a solicitor?

Yes and no. Has found a reputable one and is due for an appointment in the coming days.

osarusan

His failure to deal with his ex-wife's unreasonable demands, even though this failure is impacting on you and your relationship with him, tells you where you stand.

Sounds like the only way it will be sorted is legally - why will he not go down this route?

The only way this will be resolved in a way that will keep you and him happy is a way that will leave her unhappy and likely angry. He needs to deal with that, not dance around it and search for a way to avoid it.

EDIT: He will visit a solicitor, good.

Big Bag of Chips

But OldNotWIse, your partner is the problem!

She's refusing - but he's then accommodating her. Why would she contribute anything when he continues doing it all? He hasn't actually DONE anything to start formally and legally separating from her. Because they cannot live separately but with joint finances. And if that is the way he is determined to continue, then he might as well move back in and live out his days there.

Because unless he DOES something, actually really does something practical to separate his finances from her, then nothing will change.

Edit: Make sure he goes to the solicitor appointment with a view to separating legally and fairly. Not going asking how to keep his wife in the life she has been accustomed to!!

Ursus Horribilis

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yes and no. Has found a reputable one and is due for an appointment in the coming days.

About time. The impression I'm getting here is that the ex wife has been calling all the shots and he has meekly gone along with it, without a scrap of legal advice to guide him. He needs to stop hiding behind other people and to stand on his own two feet.

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Bob24

OldNotWIse wrote: »

See this is what I don't get - the whole obsession with not wanting to rent. If you want to leave something to your kids, you should be willing to work for it. How can she defend a position that refuses to work, refuses to downsize, refuses to rent, expects everything to be paid for her - and not be willing to compromise in any way, shape or form.

That is not a reasonable ask indeed, but unfortunately I think while she is the original source of the problem your partner is also part of that problem: the reason she is able to defend that position is that he is entertaining it.

For now his state of mind seems to be to go for the path of least resistance (ie accept all her requests to avoid conflict). He needs to come to realise that while it’s easy not to confront her in the short term, it is going to make his life miserable for a long time (and yours as a knock on effect, which means you are going to leave him after a while).

So he needs to start saying no and defining his own terms rather than just accepting hers. It would be better if she came to her senses and they could come to a mutual agreement which works for everyone, but he needs to be ready for an escalation and tense relations if she doesn’t (which seems quite possible).

To get ready for this he need to do 2 things:
1) find out where he stands from a legal perspective and what his options are (can he claim custody of the children, what to of payments if she legally entitled to of they stay with her) - good news he has kicked off the process of doing that
2) based on what the options are, decide on what his preferred one is and push for that one

If the kids end up staying with her, in my view he shouldn’t give her a penny more that what she is legally entitled to. If the kids are to go on holiday and she claims she can’t paid for it, he can go on holiday with them and cover the cost rather that handing 80% of his income to their mother so that she goes with them while he is working his arse off and both of you are stuck at home with no money.

Ursus Horribilis

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Or neither of them have bothered trying to sort out the demise of their marriage.

From the wife's point of view, why should she? She is living the life of Riley while he forks out for everything.

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Ursus Horribilis

I'm sure she knows what he's earning and what he's paying out. Regardless, this matter needs to be sorted legally between the two of them.

kylith

Not a chance in hell bills and food are a grand a month. He’d want to be asking for bills and receipts.

beertons

kylith wrote: »

Not a chance in hell bills and food are a grand a month. He’d want to be asking for bills and receipts.

Unless she is feeding them crab claws, caviar, and has the immersion on full-time.

Senature

Ah here. They are living in cuckoo land. Both parents are financially responsible not only for their kids but for themselves. It's unfortunate that the mortgage is so high but all the more reason to sell up as I can't see how a mortgage of that amount is sustainable when he will have to provide a home for himself as well. He needs to get a place to live as soon as possible (better if it was independent from you op). From experience he should be looking to pay maintenance of approx (max?) 1000 per month, plus half of school/medical costs unless he has no regular contact with the kids. That would include his contribution towards accommodation, bills, kids clothes etc. If mum wants more she can work/rent a room out and/or live somewhere more affordable. If she claims she has no money for food/heating etc the kids can stay with him and he can feed them and keep them warm. Or buy them a few big jumpers, thick duvets, rugs and hot water bottles! The ex wife will resist all of this to the max as she has been getting her way so easily for so long and he is allowing her to emotionally blackmail him into poverty. Her getting a house bought for her that she makes zero financial contribution to so the kids can inherit it? What? Can they not inherit whatever house dad might buy for himself in a few years time when he gets this mess sorted out?
He can't get to that solicitor fast enough. OP be really careful. I fear for your heart, self esteem and general well being as a result of this going on around you. My partner is divorced with kids. Thankfully this part of it was all done and dusted before we met but I still find the situation extremely challenging on a regular basis.