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Does this sound reasonable - divorce and mortgage

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    #32
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,803 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    It's one thing to take on a partner's children from a previous relationship. It's another thing entirely to take on responsibility for their ex too.


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    #33
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    I am wondering if you've made a rod for your own back by moving him straight from the family home into your place.


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    #34
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,803 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    An idea we've had is for him and me to buy a small house in the area so that we are getting a mortgage between us rather than him and her, agree as part of the divorce that she gets to remain there until the kids are finished full time education, at which point she leaves and possibly gets a % of the proceeds of the house to reflect the time she has spent at home caring for them. Presumably there would be also a smaller maintenance payment on top of that.

    I think it ticks all the boxes:

    Kids have an inheritance
    Ex gets to live rent free until they are independent

    Talk me through this.

    So, she lives there until her children are finished full time education and gets a percentage for staying at home "caring" for them? Caring for 2 adults? Assuming they go on to 3rd level education, they could be 22/23 leaving full time education - and you'd be ok with YOU paying HER to live rent free in your house "caring" for 2 grown adults?

    And then, just like that, on the day the youngest leaves school/college she leaves. With no argument? To go where? To be paid for how? Who would live in the house? The children who needed a full time mother "caring" for them into their adulthood? What if they decide they don't want her to move out but instead stay living with them? Who would be paying the mortgage at that point? Still you and him? You might even have separated yourselves at that point - and he moves back in to "his house" with her and them, because he can't afford somewhere else, and can't afford to buy you out. So now you are still paying a mortgage for 4 fully grown adults to live in your house.

    If he thinks he will pay the mortgage in lieu of maintenance - what happens when she comes to him telling him she can't afford enough groceries, or the electricity, or heating, or school uniforms, or school trips, or college registration fees..

    And when do the children get their inheritance? When you both die? Or do you hand it over to them when they've left full-time education and become independent? Do they take on the mortgage then, fresh out of college, just starting in jobs, or do you continue paying the mortgage for them? What if you have your own family? Where do they fit in?

    These are just a tiny fraction of the questions that will arise from such an agreement.

    You would be nuts, absolutely nuts to even consider tying yourself to a mortgage, so your partner's ex wife can live rent free for possibly the next 10 years! Why do you think in any way, shape or form that is your responsibility?

    Either he's an absolute fool, or he believes you are.
    Either way it's not good.


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    #35
    fallen01angel
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭fallen01angel


    No no no no no no......
    OP, everyone here is on the same wavelength....... Getting a mortgage with your partner when there's so much "drama" for lack of a better word would be quite frankly incredibly foolish.

    You currently have a house,which you and him are in why would you even consider taking on a 2nd mortgage when YOU don't need one,it's not your responsibility to make sure his ex and kids are housed,it's his and his ex's.

    To be honest you said you gave him the kick up the bum to make decisions regarding his ex/your relationship at Christmas, that was only 5 months ago,way too early to even consider saddling up with such financial burdens!!!

    Just out of curiosity, does he contribute equally financially to your mortgage/bills?


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    #36
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Nothing to add other than that this scheme is pure lunacy and I think you're aware of that. Do not get financially involved.


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    #37
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,803 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Just incase you are still not convinced - think about it this way. You take out a mortgage. You repay the mortgage (50/50 with your partner?). But you get zero benefit from owning that house. His wife gets to live in it free of charge, and when that arrangement comes to an end (if it ever does) you pay her off (after she has spent 10 year living there rent free!) and the house is then given to his children. (Any potential children you might have in the future would not be entitled to any claim on that house, because it would have been previously agreed, as part of the divorce that the house goes to their 2 children). He is effectively asking you to hand over €100,000+ to his ex wife and children, with nothing in return. No repayment. Nothing to show for it. Can you afford to just give away over €100,000?

    So he benefits, she benefits, his children benefit - what about you?

    Can you not see, he may have moved out of the family home - but he is still not making you a priority. If anything he is using your kind nature to make sure the rest of his family are prioritised ahead of you. I really do hope he is stupid rather than conniving,


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    #38
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    OldNotWIse wrote: »

    Does this sound like a good idea?
    No. It's insane. Why on earth would you pay half a mortgage only to have nothing to show for it at the end? If you break up, you're still tied financially and legally. You are not responsible for this mans ex and children. Do yourself a favour and walk away from this whole mess before it gets even messier.


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    #39
    FizzleSticks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭FizzleSticks


    This post has been deleted.


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    #40
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Ehhhh?? wrote: »
    She's refusing to work. But she works?

    Works unofficially cash in hand, several hours a week I believe - but what she earns is her own for girly holidays, going out with her fella, shopping etc. It's still him that has to take care of all the finances.


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    #41
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,803 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    So she CAN work and contribute to her own children's "inheritance". But she chooses not to, and instead they both expect you to pick up her slack and financially provide, not only for his children, but for her too.

    And you believe this "ticks all the boxes".

    They saw you coming, OldNotWIse!


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    #42
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #43
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    + 1 He needs to do everything via the courts. Above board and clearly documented so there can be no back tracking 5, 10 years down the line. As has been said several times on this thread he's divorce and arrangements for after it with his ex are his to sort out and you should be getting involved beyond emotional support. He needs to step back from the obsession of leaving an inheritance for the kids for now and focus on the here and now. Get the divorce sorted, let the courts decide what he needs to pay rather than you offering a crazy deal to his ex.

    You should only get involved miles down the line from here if you decide to have kids together or buy a property together as you will then need to seek legal advice on what impact if any his divorce/kids have on it.


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    #44
    Meauldsegosha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,595 ✭✭✭Meauldsegosha


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Works unofficially cash in hand, several hours a week I believe - but what she earns is her own for girly holidays, going out with her fella, shopping etc. It's still him that has to take care of all the finances.

    And would her fella be living rent free in the house you are buying for her?


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    #45
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Meauldsegosha wrote: »
    And would her fella be living rent free in the house you are buying for her?

    Presumably not as he is married :rolleyes::(

    thank you all for your advice!


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    #46
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Presumably not as he is married :rolleyes::(

    thank you all for your advice!

    Ah one more interesting piece of news :-) ... I presume you know the whole situation is very messy and something is wrong with what your partner and their wife are expecting from you and that you wanted to hear it from many people on this thread to get confirmation from people who are not emotionally involved.

    It sounds like you are a “too nice” kind of person. I am not saying this as criticism and you don’t need to change the way you are - empathy is good - but you really need to make sure your understanding of other people’s problems doesn’t get them to take advantage of you.


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    #47
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    OP you need to talk to a solicitor ASAP. Don't buy ANYTHING with your boyfriend because his ex is playing very clever by not being able to work due to illness. You could end up getting really screwed and not in a nice way.


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    #48
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Emme wrote:
    OP you need to talk to a solicitor ASAP. Don't buy ANYTHING with your boyfriend because his ex is playing very clever by not being able to work due to illness. You could end up getting really screwed and not in a nice way.

    If talking to a solicitor, listen very carefully to the risks/dangers involved.

    Don't mislead the solicitor in to thinking you want specific advice on how to proceed down a particular path. That's very different to an open conversation about potential pitfalls.


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    #49
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    OP, the advice here is overwhelmingly (if not exclusively) suggesting to stay out of any financial contribution on your part to solve your bf's family issues. That's with with you likely being as positive as you can be about yere relationship. We all do that. We look very optimistically towards what we want.

    I suspect that the reality would enforce the advice to stay out of the issues your bf and his ex are having.

    What do your friends, family tell you?


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    #50
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,803 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    It'd be a non-runner anyway. No divorce agreement is going to allow him to offer anything to his wife/children that they don't jointly own or that he owns exclusively. So he cannot buy a house with you, and then offer it to his wife in the divorce agreement in lieu of maintenance. And I would hope any solicitor worth his salt would spot that a mile off.

    On the other hand he may ask you to buy it with him, contribute to the mortgage but keep your name off the deeds...


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    #51
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    Its insane he is paying the mortgage and being broke because of it. This affects you directly and it's not even your fight.

    They need a clean (as possible in ireland) split. As sentimental as it is the house needs to be sold. The mortgage closed and any money left over split.


    Will the kids loose inheritance? Yea. Probably. But there's still a long life to lead and life throws many curveballs so, in reality, it's pointless to use that as a overriding decision maker. Its is a point to consider. But not really any more than a consideration.

    Also, op. From an outside point of view you've stated a dozen things or so in this thread alone that are relationship dealbreakers for most people.

    As your random internet stranger financial advisor all of this, especially the relationship, is a bad investment for you. Walk away.


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    #52
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭SteM


    Why, given everything you know about her, would you consider doing a deal with this lady? You know what's going to happen down the line, you're going to get screwed over.


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    #53
    mickuhaha
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    Don't make any financial commitments here.I think here you need to let the separation go through. She will get the house and maintenance but she will end up with the remainder of the mortgage. He will have a one off payment Evey month and that will be the end of it. She can then decide if she needs to sell and get a smaller house herself. The part he must play here is helping her get to this realisation herself and how best to work with her new situation. He must also do the same. In the end they need to come to an agreement of what they want to do with current joint assets and separate them in what ever way they can agree or end up in court and pay big solicitor fees. If he or she want to build equity for there kids it needs to be done separately from this point forward.


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    #54
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    I went out for a short while, 6 months with a divorced man.

    I remember years ago, a different long term boyfriend of mine, told me that before me, he had dated a woman with a child, and he never would again, because it was never going to be a 1-1 relationship.

    And I (young early 20s doe eyed and innocent haha) scoffed, and said "I would definitely go out with someone with children", thinking of a loving single/divorced dad, and me loving them both.

    But it is not that easy and I see what my ex meant.

    Fast forward 6 years, and I went out with a divorced man, with one young child. The child was not the problem.

    The absolute baggage with his ex wife was.

    I imagined divorce would be a clean break. They were texting and calling many times a day over the child, not in a good way, always fighting, her calling him a bad dad, solicitors, her wanting more money (thats from his pov). Looking at her side, I think he was bad to enter into marriage with her, divorce her after 3 years, and leave her as a single parent.
    They were still very much involved with each other and were fighting all the time.
    I realised if I went further in the relationship I would be having a relationship with him and his ex wife.
    Anyway, I was like I am not taking on this my whole life. Be careful who you get involved with ,x x

    If you really love him, and want to stay with him, and he has alot of financial ties. I would definitely keep your money seperate to his. That is the best advice


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    #55
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,065 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    Do revenue know she's working into the pocket, no docket? A quiet word, few hours for a private investigator, she'd be caught.

    Also, don't buy her a house.


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    #56
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    beertons wrote: »
    Do revenue know she's working into the pocket, no docket? A quiet word, few hours for a private investigator, she'd be caught.

    Also, don't buy her a house.

    I assume as a father the OP’s partner doesn’t want to do that to his children’s mother (not excusing her behaviour or feeling sorry for her, from what has been said here she seems like a piece of work, but brcause of the children he will have to deal with her for a long time to come).


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    #57
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    You'd be mad to do this OP.

    I get where you are coming from, but never get involved in the affairs of a partner and their ex.

    You could end up being legally and financially obligated to someone who, I'm sure, you would rather was not in the picture at all. You would never be rid of her. To be honest it sounds like a non-runner because I doubt she would want to live in a house you effectively own anyway. I've never heard of an arrangement like this, and there's a good reason for that: it's asking for disaster.

    The situation sounds messy enough as it is without putting your own money into it, and in such a way that there are so many variables. Neyite explained them perfectly.

    Don't get involved - it's their mess, let them sort it out.


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    #58
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    beertons wrote: »
    Do revenue know she's working into the pocket, no docket? A quiet word, few hours for a private investigator, she'd be caught.

    Also, don't buy her a house.

    A quiet word, few hours for a private investigator, and World War Three for OP and her partner.

    All that would happen, at most, is that the ex would end up with a tax bill that OP's partner would likely end up paying anyway through maintenance, and that's if she's making enough to actually have a liability. And the ex would go nuclear on the OP if she suspected she had anything to do with it.

    That's just stirring sh*t.

    Forgot to say in my first post, best of luck anyway, OP x


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    #59
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Thanks all for your advice. Though it has been hard to hear, I needed it. I've told him the mortgage idea is a non runner. As someone put it very well here lately, we would be out of pocket over 100k for her to live rent free. TBH I can't believe I even considered it - all it was doing was facilitating him trying not to rock the boat i.e. keep everyone happy. Well, sometimes you have to rock the boat.

    We have the same circular argument constantly - me telling him that we shouldn't be broke because of her, and while I get that he needs to look out for his kids, why should she be allowed to refuse to work, refuse to move, refuse to rent and still expect her mortgage, bills and maintenance paid? His answer is that he is not doing it for her but for his kids - but she could really do with a bit of give and take too. When we are sitting in broke even though we both work, and she is off on a weekend away with the girls to see a gig - there is something wrong. If I'm honest, I'm tired having the conversation!

    Tempted to put the brakes on and say, "call me when you have this mess sorted".


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    #60
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #61
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Really good point.


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