ketogenic forum

Mars Bar

mille100piedi wrote: »

so there is no spaces here for people that want to learn about keto diet? I am sure there are other people that want to learn about keto here in Ireland and want to talk to other people that are following the same diet and are living in Ireland.
I have been in a low carb diet for more than 10 years and in a keto diet for more then one year and in my case it has been very successfully. I am not a chef and I have been cooking very simple meals. I really hope at some stage more experienced people will join the thread.
Dr Berg is not too bad he can explain well how the ketogenic diet works, but at the same time he's trying to sell his products.
There is no really the need to buy anything special for this diet it can be done with fresh food.

Of course there is but wouldn't you want to read all of the pros and cons, all is the alternatives and all of the success and unsuccessful stories and be as informed of your decision as you possibly can?


I found keto yo be an enjoyable diet. I enjoy the type of foods that I can get a lot of good fats from. As I said thig, I got the rash so I stopped. Everyone, under the proper guidance, should try it at least once.

silverharp

about the "flu", something i never noticed, i went months just focusing on low GI. Now based on what im eating i am probably bouncing in and out of it. so i see no problem with easing into it

Blacktie.

silverharp wrote:

about the "flu", something i never noticed, i went months just focusing on low GI. Now based on what im eating i am probably bouncing in and out of it. so i see no problem with easing into it

You don't bounce into keto.

silverharp

Blacktie. wrote: »

You don't bounce into keto.

it was just a turn of phrase , for someone jumping into it from scratch it probably takes a week or 2 . In my case I'd expect Im in and out of it but Ive no interest in measuring or counting carbs so I don't know. I don't know about anyone else but I physically or mentally couldn't tell either way, I might pick up a glucometer that tests for it just to get a broad brush idea, I gather the other ways of testing aren't correct.

Mellor

cold case wrote: »

I am so fed up with this diet,

From what you said, you haven't started following the diet yet.

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

I can’t imagine how someone finds adherence easier when you can’t eat half of foods - think eating out, canteen in work, etc.

Adherence is easy for some due to satiety.

If somebody is serious about losing weight they should be making their own lunch not eating in a work canteen. Similarly eating out shouldn't be a significant portion of intake, so not relevant.

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Doesn’t sound like this diet is suitable for the OP. I would suggest my method as more suitable:

Don’t exclude anything bar sweets - chocolate, crisps etc.
Measure and log everything
Check your average over last 7 days daily (in app) as this is all that matters
Use extra calories on naughty food - takeaway - makes adherence easier as no thought of sacrifice.

That would work too but requires will power. For somebody who can't resist a few chips and the kids fish fingers, will power might not be the best.
An all or nothing approach (like keto) can be better in that situation. But it going to be much harder if the foods are still in the house.

silverharp wrote: »

it was just a turn of phrase , for someone jumping into it from scratch it probably takes a week or 2 . In my case I'd expect Im in and out of it but Ive no interest in measuring or counting carbs so I don't know. I don't know about anyone else but I physically or mentally couldn't tell either way, I might pick up a glucometer that tests for it just to get a broad brush idea, I gather the other ways of testing aren't correct.

If you aren't mostly eliminating carbs you won;'t slip into keto at any point.
Glucometer is one method, but other ways of testing (like ketostrips) are correct also.

silverharp

Mellor wrote: »

If you aren't mostly eliminating carbs you won;'t slip into keto at any point.
Glucometer is one method, but other ways of testing (like ketostrips) are correct also.

I'd be confident to say Im eating low carb its just I don't go out of the way to eat lots of fat. Some days my dinner might be prawns/fish/chicken with greens or other veg like rice cauliflower. For Lunch Ive been making a kefir smoothie with avocados and coconut cream n' stuff so that would have a high fat content.

what I'd come across about the keto urine strips was that your body might be efficiently burning ketones so you think you are getting a false negative?

mille100piedi

I only have a glucometer and I tested my ketones a couple of time when I wake up early in the morning, I was in ketosis in both of them, I should test my ketones more often but I am too lazy to do it. I eat a very low carb diet and plenty of fat so I guess I am in ketosis all the time.

Mellor

silverharp wrote: »

I'd be confident to say Im eating low carb its just I don't go out of the way to eat lots of fat. Some days my dinner might be prawns/fish/chicken with greens or other veg like rice cauliflower. For Lunch Ive been making a kefir smoothie with avocados and coconut cream n' stuff so that would have a high fat content.

If you were doing Keto levels of low carb without high fat, you'd be way under on your calorie intake. But low carb means different things to different people.

Easiest way is to list everything you eat on a typical day. You could be Keto without specifically tracking it.

what I'd come across about the keto urine strips was that your body might be efficiently burning ketones so you think you are getting a false negative?

Strips only detect positives. Any detection proves you are in ketosis.
But not detective isn't a negative.

Similar to an athlete popping for steroids is proof he is juicing, but passing doesn't necessarily mean he is clean.

Nollog

I've been on keto for a month and a week now.

The biggest mistake you will make here in Ireland after reading all the information on keto and doing NET carbs is that Irish nutrition information does not include fibre in the carbohydrates information. So reading the carbs of the pack is NET carbs.

I've lost 5kg.

mille100piedi wrote: »

I only have a glucometer and I tested my ketones a couple of time when I wake up early in the morning, I was in ketosis in both of them, I should test my ketones more often but I am too lazy to do it. I eat a very low carb diet and plenty of fat so I guess I am in ketosis all the time.

Testing in the morning will almost always give you a positive response. Drink a couple glasses of water and test around the middle of the day.

The ketones you expell are unused, so you need to be pretty well hydrated for an accurate result.

Dehydrated positive, too hydrated negative or lower result.

I've only tested myself once, apparently they're really inaccurate but what do?

mille100piedi

/\/ollog wrote: »

I've been on keto for a month and a week now.

The biggest mistake you will make here in Ireland after reading all the information on keto and doing NET carbs is that Irish nutrition information does not include fibre in the carbohydrates information. So reading the carbs of the pack is NET carbs.

I've lost 5kg.



Testing in the morning will almost always give you a positive response. Drink a couple glasses of water and test around the middle of the day.

The ketones you expell are unused, so you need to be pretty well hydrated for an accurate result.

Dehydrated positive, too hydrated negative or lower result.

I've only tested myself once, apparently they're really inaccurate but what do?

I didn't test ketones in my urine but in my blood, testing blood ketones is very accurate and you should test it first thing in the morning

Mellor

/\/ollog wrote: »

I've been on keto for a month and a week now.

The biggest mistake you will make here in Ireland after reading all the information on keto and doing NET carbs is that Irish nutrition information does not include fibre in the carbohydrates information. So reading the carbs of the pack is NET carbs.

I assume most people would take labels at face value. But a lot of people actually make that mistake. I seen one guy insisting that some food he was eating had a "negative carbs count".

Testing in the morning will almost always give you a positive response. Drink a couple glasses of water and test around the middle of the day.
The ketones you expell are unused, so you need to be pretty well hydrated for an accurate result.

You still only show a positive result if you are in ketosis. Being dehydrated is irrelevant.

Nollog

mille100piedi wrote: »

I didn't test ketones in my urine but in my blood, testing blood ketones is very accurate and you should test it first thing in the morning

I read the word strips and jumped to a conclusion. I forgot the blood testing is done on strips too. :X

Mellor

/\/ollog wrote: »

I read the word strips and jumped to a conclusion. I forgot the blood testing is done on strips too. :X

I was talking about pee strips.
What you said was incorrect about them too. Testing in the morning is best.

Nollog

Mellor wrote: »

I was talking about pee strips.
What you said was incorrect about them too. Testing in the morning is best.

I disagree.

Mellor

/\/ollog wrote: »

I disagree.

Based on what? Your post above made little sense. I've explained why.
Respectfully, you've been on Keto a month, and resting one is hardly a proper sample.

Nollog

Mellor wrote: »

Based on what? Your post above made little sense. I've explained why.
Respectfully, you've been on Keto a month, and resting one is hardly a proper sample.

Oh it didn't? Sorry then.

I only tested myself once, the internet has tested themselves millions of times, the latter is where I came to the conclusion that you need to be hydrated to get in any way an accurate reading from urine, so after fasting all night you'd need to drink a glass or two in that case.

It doesn't matter at all for myself, as you said yourself I'm new to keto so the fact I have any in my body at all means I'm burning fat. This time next year it might be a different story, as my body uses the ketones instead of having loads to urinate out.

silverharp

happened to be in town today spontaneously picked up a bottle of ketostix, result was 8mmol/L or the second strongest reading on their color chart. over the last week my dinners were more protein based and lunch would have had more fats like avocado and coconut milk, I am dropping about a kg a week for the last week or 2 so I assume that counts as consuming fat.

Mellor

/\/ollog wrote: »

the latter is where I came to the conclusion that you need to be hydrated to get in any way an accurate reading from urine, so after fasting all night you'd need to drink a glass or two in that case.

That's the part where you are incorrect.
Ketostix are used to detect ketones. If they are detected, you are in ketosis.
A stronger reading due to concentrated urine in the morning isn't less accurate. You are trying to detect the presence not the level of ketones. The level is inconsequential, it doesn't co-relate to the amount of fat being burned or ketones being converted.

silverharp wrote: »

happened to be in town today spontaneously picked up a bottle of ketostix, result was 8mmol/L or the second strongest reading on their color chart. over the last week my dinners were more protein based and lunch would have had more fats like avocado and coconut milk, I am dropping about a kg a week for the last week or 2 so I assume that counts as consuming fat.

Definitely in ketosis

ShooterSF

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

What benefit has Keto over regular calorie tracking?

I can’t imagine how someone finds adherence easier when you can’t eat half of foods - think eating out, canteen in work, etc.

For me, and I've eased off and gone more low carb, I found I just wasn't hungry. Even now I have two meals a day with maybe a few nuts or cheese for a light snack. Fat satiates me and I don't crave food. Also I love a lot of the foods and was never one for spuds. Burgers with no buns, fish, steaks, veggies fried in kerrygold, eggs a million different ways, bacon, so many different cheeses. Oh and polish sausages, the pepperami looking things I can never pronounce. I'm hoping eventually to go OMAD (one meal a day) more for convenience on work days.

silverharp

ShooterSF wrote: »

For me, and I've eased off and gone more low carb, I found I just wasn't hungry. Even now I have two meals a day with maybe a few nuts or cheese for a light snack. Fat satiates me and I don't crave food. Also I love a lot of the foods and was never one for spuds. Burgers with no buns, fish, steaks, veggies fried in kerrygold, eggs a million different ways, bacon, so many different cheeses. Oh and polish sausages, the pepperami looking things I can never pronounce. I'm hoping eventually to go OMAD (one meal a day) more for convenience on work days.

the convenience is an interesting side benefit, my family are away for a couple of weeks at the moment and compared to last year same time I just find there is a fraction of the washing up to do and overall less shopping and that's just because I don't eat breakfast and sometimes my lunch is just chucking a hard boiled egg in my pocket, so either way all prep for lunch for the week is Sunday evening.
Its liberating not having or even wanting to eat breakfast , saves time in a big way too, plus it means im not fed up of a cooked breakfast or bacon as I'd only eat them at the weekend.
I don't think I could strictly do OMAD but even a hard boiled egg can be enough for me to say Ive had lunch. I might try it later in the year or even a daily fast but have a bullet proof coffee for the missed meals, it would suit my purposes of improving insulin sensitivity

mille100piedi

silverharp wrote: »

the convenience is an interesting side benefit, my family are away for a couple of weeks at the moment and compared to last year same time I just find there is a fraction of the washing up to do and overall less shopping and that's just because I don't eat breakfast and sometimes my lunch is just chucking a hard boiled egg in my pocket, so either way all prep for lunch for the week is Sunday evening.
Its liberating not having or even wanting to eat breakfast , saves time in a big way too, plus it means im not fed up of a cooked breakfast or bacon as I'd only eat them at the weekend.
I don't think I could strictly do OMAD but even a hard boiled egg can be enough for me to say Ive had lunch. I might try it later in the year or even a daily fast but have a bullet proof coffee for the missed meals, it would suit my purposes of improving insulin sensitivity

in my case the washing up is more difficult because cleaning fatty kitchenware is much harder, you need plenty of washing up liquid and very hot water. Luckily I have a dishwasher. I eat as well boiled eggs, but since they are higher in protein that in fat they are not really keto food and I need to add home made mayo to them

Tar.Aldarion

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

What benefit has Keto over regular calorie tracking?

I can’t imagine how someone finds adherence easier when you can’t eat half of foods - think eating out, canteen in work, etc.

It depends on what works for a person. I won a weight loss competition losing ~11kg in 8 weeks on a very high carb vegan diet, and I never felt hungry. I did no calorie tracking, or macro tracking really, just used passing thoughts and rough estimates. A lot of it comes down to convenience, satiation and staying away from sugar or addictive crash cycle foods. What people don't generally realise is that when you eat less and eat healthier, you become less hungry, you don't want to eat as much. At that point with some high satiation foods (potato is one of the most satiating no matter the method people try to measure with http://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/fullness-factor) you just don't feel the urges any more. The second I eat some junk food or takeaway I would start feeling the urge for it again soon.

Most of it is mental, for my challenge in my first week I logged every single thing I ate to show my personal trainer, even that alone made me eat better and at that point I found it easier to continue. Little tricks/techniques can help people out a lot. Counting calories alone would work perfectly, it just depends how much willpower you have available at all times, including when being run down and stressed etc.

mille100piedi

anyone know the different between coconut butter, coconut cream and coconut milk?

smurfjed

About two years ago i did KETO to reduce my body mass, blood pressure and sugars, I succeeded in losing 16 kgs over a time and got to renew my medicals with my lowest readings in donkey years.
Since then I have regained about 7kgs, thanks totally to chocolate and beer.
I restarted KETO on the 1st July, so thats 10 days without chocolate and beer, which is extremely annoying with the world cup going on. So far I have lost about 2kgs which will primarily be water. I will continue this until the end of the month when my wife comes back and see how it goes.
My diet is staying pretty similar, eggs with olive oil for breakfast, steak or salmon for lunch, and cheese for snacks. Numerous cups of coffee during the day, some with cream for fat, lots of water. My calorie intake is about 2200-2400 a day and macros are around 68% fat/ 31% protein / 1% carb averaged over a week (Myfitnesspal).
I know that it said that if you get the macros right then you dont have to worry about the calories, but in my case I don't believe that to be true, next week I shall attempt to bring my calories down to 1800-2000. I also try to combine what i eat with IF, but this all depends on my work schedule.

RiderOnTheStorm

My OH & I started keto 5 weeks ago and LOVE it. Seems to be working for us.

Just wanted to say I find it easy to eat keto when I am out and about. I am on the road 12 hours a day and cant realistically bring food with me (nature of the job). I have a prepared breakfast (usually eggs, cheese and some meat), and then at some point in the day I can stop in any canteen, deli or subway and get a salad plate (or any meal minus the carbs, so I add leafy greens / eggs / cheese / cold meat).

The great thing we find about keto is the food we can eat is "normal" and can be found anywhere. Some extra thought & prep needed at home, but WELL worth it!

Mellor

mille100piedi wrote: »

anyone know the different between coconut butter, coconut cream and coconut milk?

Coconut butter is coconut flesh that has been ground very finely into a smooth paste.

Coconut cream is the liquid extracted by boiling grated coconut flesh in water. Coconut milk is the same process, but with a higher water content.

Coconut oil is the pure oil extracted from coconut.

mille100piedi

Mellor wrote: »

Coconut butter is coconut flesh that has been ground very finely into a smooth paste.

Coconut cream is the liquid extracted by boiling grated coconut flesh in water. Coconut milk is the same process, but with a higher water content.

Coconut oil is the pure oil extracted from coconut.

Thanks I am still confused about coconut milk and coconut cream. Is coconut milk used for cooking salty food and coconut milk used more for fat bombs or keto sweets treats?which one is used for the coffee?I know also some people make whipped cream is with coconut milk or with coconut cream?

Mellor

They are both the same thing. One is just a watery version of the other.
Both are used in cooking - curry, laksa, sate dishes etc. Just depends on creamy or watery you want the curry.
Both can be used in fat bombs, depending on recipe. But the thick cream is prob better. Coconut oil better again (its solid at room temp).
The milk wont whip, a thick cream might.
Not sure what you mean about coffee. Could add either to coffee I guess.

tony1980

It’s probably Bullet Proof Coffee. It’s a spoon of coconut oil, some KerryGold and Coffee blended up with your coffee. I use the Nutribullet when making one and it’s really nice!

Grab All Association

Keto 1+ year. I'm a size zero.

RiderOnTheStorm

mille100piedi wrote:

...which one is used for the coffee?...

+1 what Mellor said. The Yanks call it Bulletproof Coffee. The idea is you add fat to your diet through the coffee.

Coconut oil is very good for repairing so many parts of the body, including the brain. But MCT oil is better and avail in health food shops. Looks crap in the coffee mind!

smurfjed

Bullet Proof coffee is an acquired taste, I much prefer using whipping cream.

Tar.Aldarion

Also the light version of coconut milk is just the same thing with more water, just buy the thicker version and add some more water if you want. The percentage of coconut milk is on the can.

Mellor

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Also the light version of coconut milk is just the same thing with more water, just buy the thicker version and add some more water if you want. The percentage of coconut milk is on the can.

Light coconut cream is more water but it can also have a thickener added to keep it like a cream consistency rather than milk.

silverharp

based on what ive been listening to most people seem to use coconut oil in their coffee and as the americans say "grass fed" butter, they seem to drool over kerrygold :pac:

what is the deal with MCT? i havnt had time to investigate it, what would it add nutritionally on top of or instead of butter/coconut oil?

Tar.Aldarion

Mellor wrote: »

Light coconut cream is more water but it can also have a thickener added to keep it like a cream consistency rather than milk.

Suppose it depends on the brand, Tesco's one here just adds water to their light milk. The Blue Dragon brand just removes an emulsifier and has more water. I guess when it's labelled as cream it is different too, as these are just the ones advertised as milk.

mille100piedi

I drink coffee with frosted almond milk. The only almond milk that it can frost well is the brand Plenish, I don't find it everywhere I buy it in Supervalu. To the coffee I add MCT oil, I tried adding coconut oil but I don't like the taste, I tried also whit odourless coconut oil but I prefer MCT oil, I buy the MCT from UK: Caprylic Acid 99.8% | Ketosource. I didn't find the same in Ireland. Finally to my coffee I add cacao and cinnamon

mille100piedi

Mellor wrote: »

They are both the same thing. One is just a watery version of the other.
Both are used in cooking - curry, laksa, sate dishes etc. Just depends on creamy or watery you want the curry.
Both can be used in fat bombs, depending on recipe. But the thick cream is prob better. Coconut oil better again (its solid at room temp).
The milk wont whip, a thick cream might.
Not sure what you mean about coffee. Could add either to coffee I guess.

I think I am going to try to make at home coconut cream from coconut flakes and try to whip it

RiderOnTheStorm

We get MCT (by Mutant) from aobnutrition.ie

Have no idea what % the caprilic acid is, but its half the price (when you by the big bottle) of the stuff in H&B

tony1980

Has anyone come across Swerve Sweetener locally? I see it’s available on Amazon but I was hoping I might find it in a health shop.

mille100piedi

tony1980 wrote: »

Has anyone come across Swerve Sweetener locally? I see it’s available on Amazon but I was hoping I might find it in a health shop.

I think it would be cheaper in Amazon anyway. I buy Natural Erythritol 2 Kg for 17 pounds and free delivery

Mellor

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Suppose it depends on the brand, Tesco's one here just adds water to their light milk. The Blue Dragon brand just removes an emulsifier and has more water. I guess when it's labelled as cream it is different too, as these are just the ones advertised as milk.

Possible a cream v milk difference.
I only by cream, as I like my curry a bit thicker. Milk is for milkshakes

Tar.Aldarion

I'm not sure how strong or big your coconut cream containers are but take the one from Tesco here, it's 160ml of which 67% is coconut. The normal coconut milk is 56%, 400ml and cheaper but most importantly the water completely separates, meaning you can just pour it off and get much more coconut cream than the coconut cream, as it were. There are coconut cream sachets here too though which are just 100% creamed coconut, https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=250490888. They probably sell completely different products in Sydney.

Mellor

If you put them in the fridge. It encourages the cream and water separates also. End up with really solid cram on top.

I think creamed coconut is different. It's puréed flesh. Still tasty in a curry though.

amdublin

Good morning Keto-ers!

Can someone please call to my house and make me some rashers and avocado. Oh and please bring cream and butter for my bullet proof coffee, I've nothing in the fridge.

I've been doing keto on and off for 4 years. The film Cereal Killers was my initial intro. Now on day 20 out of a 30 day keto challenge and that's it. I'm going to continue this way of eating for good from here on in.

I'd love to see restaurants offer keto options, or shops stocking more keto food. Omg a bakery with keto fat bombs and keto brownies!

Anyway delighted to have found this forum. Keto on!

RiderOnTheStorm

amdublin wrote:

Anyway delighted to have found this forum. Keto on!

I am surprised there isnt a bigger or older forum. Still, keto itself seems to be a slow burner subject.

amdublin wrote:

...I've been doing keto on and off for 4 years...

I am only 6 weeks in, but loving it. Who couldn't like a diet (oops, I mean way-of-eating) that has bacon & eggs for breakfast and occasional steak for dinner!

amdublin wrote:

...The film Cereal Killers was my initial intro...

The Magic Pill was my Damascus moment.

smurfjed

This time around I have followed it for a month, 4kgs down, not as much as I expected, I pretty much have the macros down pat, it anything less Carbs than allowed, but my calorie intake is still higher than my burn, so although its said that calories don't matter, at least in my case they appear to have an impact.
I guess that I have to get off my arse more

Subcomandante Marcos

Cavey wrote: »

Reddit.com/r/vegan has just under 200k subs and /r/vegetarian has 104k subs.

reddit.com/r/keto has 657k subs

21% of the planets population are vegetarian.
A lot less people are bro-science-atarians.

ShooterSF

smurfjed wrote: »

This time around I have followed it for a month, 4kgs down, not as much as I expected, I pretty much have the macros down pat, it anything less Carbs than allowed, but my calorie intake is still higher than my burn, so although its said that calories don't matter, at least in my case they appear to have an impact.
I guess that I have to get off my arse more

Calories definitely still matter. They are the determining factor in weight loss. Most people that say calories don't matter on keto mean it in the sense that the high level of fat you are eating will keep you feeling full well before you go way over your intake. Likewise most recommend if you are not loosing to try increasing the percentage of fat in your diet.

mille100piedi

Does anybody have a keto recipes bread? I am experimenting now and I found the two following recipes good and very easy to make
http://mariamindbodyhealth.com/the-best-low-carb-bread/ (in the oven)
http://maria.recipes/flaxRoti (in the pan)