Migration Megathread

Timberrrrrrrr

tretorn wrote: »

Are most of those Muslim doctors not from Malaysia, the ones in Beaumont probably areanyway. They pay huge sums to the RCSI to study here and the other Universities are now mad keen to get their hands on this money too hence more pressure on. irish students who use their brains to get places in third level rather than the money Daddy has.

You might see a number of Muslim doctors who are children of immigrants but the reality is most Muslim second generation are living as outsiders in Muslim ghettoes in European cities. Is it my fault thst Begum and her wannabee fellow jihadi brides thought life in Syria was better than life in the UK, did the UK not offer her every opportunity to make a good life for herself.

The laughable thing about Ardern wearing that scarf was the fact that she would have been ushered into the eomen only section of the mosque, no muslim man would shake her hand and they wouldnt consider anything she had to say to be of relevance. They would be wondering what sort of wife and mother she was and thinking she should be at home in her kitchen.

I would be a lot more mindful of what Denmark is saying and doing, they are experiencing difficulties with integrating Muslims and firm action is being taken. I doubt if Muslims in Denmark can head off to a mosque to pray in the middle of the day and nor would I be allowed to take my child out of school to go and say a rosary somewhere, how dies putting your religious duties before other demands help integration.

See there's your problem right there, you tar them all with the same brush. :rolleyes:

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

Let me say at the outset that I have very little interest in engaging with you on the other statements in your post, as I find them to be quite troublesome, but I want to address one factual point.

tretorn wrote: »

Are most of those Muslim doctors not from Malaysia, the ones in Beaumont probably areanyway. They pay huge sums to the RCSI to study here and the other Universities are now mad keen to get their hands on this money too hence more pressure on. irish students who use their brains to get places in third level rather than the money Daddy has.

There are zero EU students not being admitted to RCSI due to foreign students attending (of any religion). Furthermore, EU students absolutely do not compete with foreign students on fees, as EU students receive heavily subsidised fees.

Dannyriver

tretorn wrote: »

Are most of those Muslim doctors not from Malaysia, the ones in Beaumont probably areanyway. They pay huge sums to the RCSI to study here and the other Universities are now mad keen to get their hands on this money too hence more pressure on. irish students who use their brains to get places in third level rather than the money Daddy has.

You might see a number of Muslim doctors who are children of immigrants but the reality is most Muslim second generation are living as outsiders in Muslim ghettoes in European cities. Is it my fault thst Begum and her wannabee fellow jihadi brides thought life in Syria was better than life in the UK, did the UK not offer her every opportunity to make a good life for herself.

The laughable thing about Ardern wearing that scarf was the fact that she would have been ushered into the eomen only section of the mosque, no muslim man would shake her hand and they wouldnt consider anything she had to say to be of relevance. They would be wondering what sort of wife and mother she was and thinking she should be at home in her kitchen.

I would be a lot more mindful of what Denmark is saying and doing, they are experiencing difficulties with integrating Muslims and firm action is being taken. I doubt if Muslims in Denmark can head off to a mosque to pray in the middle of the day and nor would I be allowed to take my child out of school to go and say a rosary somewhere, how dies putting your religious duties before other demands help integration.

In one paragraph you managed to contradict yourself, on the one hand you state muslims are living in ghettos on the outskirts of the city and on the other you claim they have equal opportunities. Which is it fella?

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

That is the 2nd time you said it so I will ask again.

Is it ever OK to debate the issues of migration policy?

I already answered it. Of course it is.

Odhinn

tretorn wrote: »

Are most of those Muslim doctors not from Malaysia, the ones in Beaumont probably areanyway. They pay huge sums to the RCSI to study here and the other Universities are now mad keen to get their hands on this money too hence more pressure on. irish students who use their brains to get places in third level rather than the money Daddy has.
...............

The RSCI is more associated with Dubai, afaik. Entrance to that college does not guarantee qualification, so the notion that they're paying to "take" places from better qualified "irish students" is incorrect and strikes me as a tad bigoted.

oscarBravo

markodaly wrote: »

...I do believe that people should be given due process, even if they are on a boat.

Great. Then you're not the person I'm addressing when I'm pointing out how self-evidently stupid it is to deny people due process because they're on a boat.

The issue of course, which is self-evident that most people claiming asylum in Ireland are not deemed to satisfy the criteria of an Asylum seeker, whereby over 90% are denied.

[...]

Maybe we can discuss the legislation and policies that can improve this situation whereby clearly there are people like those pre-2004 amendment taking the piss.

If by "improve the situation" you mean "prevent people from applying who will ultimately fail", sure: if there's a way of doing so that doesn't deny anyone due process or prejudice the chances of a genuine refugee.

Or would that be just racist?

It really depends on the proposed measures, doesn't it?

I see you didnt answer the question, so can you care to answer it rather than making another grandiose statement?

You're asking me to call people islamophobes, which strikes me as an invitation to ad-hominem.

Are you trying to argue that nobody on this thread has ever said anything that could legitimately be construed as islamophobic?

4068ac1elhodqr

A 47-years-old man, originally from Senegal (with precedents for drunk driving and sexual abuse) is under investigation
- for attempted massacre and kidnapping in Milan.

In protest to Italy's stance on mass migration, he tried to torch a school bus full of 51 kids.

Not sure if he should've been driving school buses, or if that's the best approach to raising his concerns on policy.
Luckily only minor injuries were reported so far, after one of the kids on the bus called his parents, who called the cops.

Brian?

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

A 47-years-old man, originally from Senegal (with precedents for drunk driving and sexual abuse) is under investigation
- for attempted massacre and kidnapping in Milan.

In protest to Italy's stance on mass migration, he tried to torch a school bus full of 51 kids.

Not sure if he should've been driving school buses, or if that's the best approach to raising his concerns on policy.
Luckily only minor injuries were reported so far, after one of the kids on the bus called his parents, who called the cops.

The point?

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

Brian? wrote: »

The point?

Sounds to me like something failed in Italy's immigration checks.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

A 47-years-old man, originally from Senegal (with precedents for drunk driving and sexual abuse) is under investigation
- for attempted massacre and kidnapping in Milan.

In protest to Italy's stance on mass migration, he tried to torch a school bus full of 51 kids.

Not sure if he should've been driving school buses, or if that's the best approach to raising his concerns on policy.
Luckily only minor injuries were reported so far, after one of the kids on the bus called his parents, who called the cops.

Looks like:

1) He's an Italian citizen;
2) His convictions were in Italy;
3) Not clear he's a Muslim.

recedite

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

They pay huge sums to the RCSI to study here and the other Universities are now mad keen to get their hands on this money too hence more pressure on. irish students who use their brains to get places in third level rather than the money Daddy has.

There are zero EU students not being admitted to RCSI due to foreign students attending (of any religion). Furthermore, EU students absolutely do not compete with foreign students on fees, as EU students receive heavily subsidised fees.

You missed the point there, whether deliberately or not.
Its competition for places. Irish and EU citizens compete with their exam results. Those from outside buy their way into the system. And its not just RCSI (which BTW always existed for the purpose of facilitating those with more money than brains). What's more annoying to me is that the public universities are now at it too.
Can you honestly tell me that when a place in a medical school in somewhere like UCG or TCD goes to a wealthy non-EU citizen, that an EU or Irish citizen is not displaced? Of course they will be. The points requirement for the remaining places will rise, via the automated CAO process.

Brian?

recedite wrote: »

You missed the point there, whether deliberately or not.
Its competition for places. Irish and EU citizens compete with their exam results. Those from outside buy their way into the system. And its not just RCSI (which BTW always existed for the purpose of facilitating those with more money than brains). What's more annoying to me is that the public universities are now at it too.
Can you honestly tell me that when a place in a medical school in somewhere like UCG or TCD goes to a wealthy non-EU citizen, that an EU or Irish citizen is not displaced? Of course they will be. The points requirement for the remaining places will rise, via the automated CAO process.

If this does happen, I agree that it’s wrong. Do you have any proof it does happen?

recedite

Brian? wrote: »

If this does happen, I agree that it’s wrong. Do you have any proof it does happen?

I suggest you take a walk onto the campus of one the medical schools, and listen to the students chatting in arabic or urdu, or whatever it is.

tretorn

Of course its happening, dont be silly.

All the Third level universities are trawling the globe looking for students with deep pockets. I know three university lecturers who spent a month in China recently selling the ware of an Institute of Technology, one of the betters Institutions be fair.

These students are absolutely loaded and staying in expensive apartments blocks near whatever college they are in, no basic student accommodation for them. They have endless money to spend and drive BMWs and Mercedes cars and they mostly stick to their own ethnic groups while in college. They have no intention of staying in Ireland after they graduate, they come here really to learn english.

If you spend anytime in any of the Dublin Universities you will see a lot of young women wearing the headscarf, you would never see these women mixing with other students, they keep to their own circles.

4068ac1elhodqr

^ Looks he's a migrant (originally from Senegal) who 'wishes to promote migration to Italy', by actually killing about 50 Italian schoolkids.

And people ask if the Italian public were wrong to express concerns with mass migraiton from Africa, Asia or the Middle East?

Then there is the question about why the school bus company wasn't aware of his prior convictions, namely: precedents for drunk driving and sexual abuse (really not ideal for driving kids to school).

Das Reich

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

Looks like:

1) He's an Italian citizen;
2) His convictions were in Italy;
3) Not clear he's a Muslim.

1) He is not Italian, got a citizen by marriage and not by ancestry.
2) And?
3) Almost everyone in Senegal is Muslim.

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

I suggest you take a walk onto the campus of one the medical schools, and listen to the students chatting in arabic or urdu, or whatever it is.

....that's proof of nothing regarding placements, though it does clearly show a xenophobic attitude.

James Brown

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

^ Looks he's a migrant (originally from Senegal) who 'wishes to promote migration to Italy', by actually killing about 50 Italian schoolkids.

And people ask if the Italian public were wrong to express concerns with mass migraiton from Africa, Asia or the Middle East?

Then there is the question about why the school bus company wasn't aware of his prior convictions, namely: precedents for drunk driving and sexual abuse (really not ideal for driving kids to school).

Even if he might claim to be Muslim, he's obviously not a very good one. You can't be a hard core Islamic fundamentalist and break the most basic tenets of the religion.

tretorn

Dannyriver wrote: »

In one paragraph you managed to contradict yourself, on the one hand you state muslims are living in ghettos on the outskirts of the city and on the other you claim they have equal opportunities. Which is it fella?

They are living in ghettoes by choice because they dont want the young people to integrate. If they integrate the young women might actually start to think they have a mind of their own and then how can you force them to dress in the burka and make them stay at home. Domestic violence is a serious problem in the Muslim community too but if you brainwash women into thinking men own them then how are women going to escape these dysfunctional societies.

Begum and all those other jihadis got exactly the same opportunities as other young people all over Europe, no one said to them you arent getting an education or health care or any other public service because you are muslim. If they are not achieving their potential then blame the leaders of their communities, thats where the blame lies and not with the indiginous population.

I didnt contradict myself at all. What all the jihadi terrorists had in common was no qualifications, no work, criminal records, they made the choice to go down this path and no amount of Government intervention would have made a difference, all we are doing is appeasing these people with their feudal fifteenth century lifestyle and anyone who points this out is a racist.

How can the school bus company check anything, he probably came from a country where no records exist and everyone corrupts everyone else. He can pretend to be whoever he likes and thats that. If the school doesnt employ him he will take a racial discrimination case and some NGO will back him and organise free legal aid for him.

Odhinn

tretorn wrote: »

They are living in ghettoes by choice because they dont want the young people to integrate. If they integrate the young women might actually start to think they have a mind of their own and then how can you force them to dress in the burka and make them stay at home. Domestic violence is a serious problem in the Muslim community too but if you brainwash women into thinking men own them then how are women going to escape these dysfunctional societies.
t.

It's a very small minority that wear the Burka in France, Belgium etc.


367 to 2000 in France. Nearly three quarters of muslim women in Germany go without covering their hair in any way at all.

http://theconversation.com/so-few-muslim-women-wear-the-burqa-in-europe-that-banning-it-is-a-waste-of-time-82957


215 in Belgium

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/belgium-passes-europes-first-ban-on-wearing-burka-in-public-1959626.html

tretorn

I know, sure life is wonderful for Muslim women and Irish women would be a lot more content if they adopted the Muslim way of life.

That nut job driving the bus in Italy threatened to pour petrol all over the children and set them alight.

He probably arrived on a boat himself and he wants to murder Italians because the Italian Government wants to stop more men like him arriving, I think the Italian Government are putting Italian interests first, good for them.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

tretorn wrote: »

Of course its happening, dont be silly.

All the Third level universities are trawling the globe looking for students with deep pockets. I know three university lecturers who spent a month in China recently selling the ware of an Institute of Technology, one of the betters Institutions be fair.

These students are absolutely loaded and staying in expensive apartments blocks near whatever college they are in, no basic student accommodation for them. They have endless money to spend and drive BMWs and Mercedes cars and they mostly stick to their own ethnic groups while in college. They have no intention of staying in Ireland after they graduate, they come here really to learn english.

If you spend anytime in any of the Dublin Universities you will see a lot of young women wearing the headscarf, you would never see these women mixing with other students, they keep to their own circles.

I did my undergraduate and postgraduate at a Dublin University and my experience is vastly different.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

Das Reich wrote: »

1) He is not Italian, got a citizen by marriage and not by ancestry.
2) And?
3) Almost everyone in Senegal is Muslim.

So the point is...

Odhinn

tretorn wrote: »

I know, sure life is wonderful for Muslim women and Irish women would be a lot more content if they adopted the Muslim way of life.

.................................

Nobody has stated that on this thread, so I'm unsure as to what you're getting at.



Do you acknowledge that the wearing of the burkha is by a tiny minority of
European muslims?

ancapailldorcha

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

So the point is...

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

Uh... maybe look up a few posts?

Serious contributions only please.

No more newsdumps. Posts deleted.

Midlife

tretorn wrote: »

Of course its happening, dont be silly.

All the Third level universities are trawling the globe looking for students with deep pockets. I know three university lecturers who spent a month in China recently selling the ware of an Institute of Technology, one of the betters Institutions be fair.

These students are absolutely loaded and staying in expensive apartments blocks near whatever college they are in, no basic student accommodation for them. They have endless money to spend and drive BMWs and Mercedes cars and they mostly stick to their own ethnic groups while in college. They have no intention of staying in Ireland after they graduate, they come here really to learn english.

If you spend anytime in any of the Dublin Universities you will see a lot of young women wearing the headscarf, you would never see these women mixing with other students, they keep to their own circles.

And?

Where's the fault in this?

They're targetted because they bring in a sh1tload of money to an underfunded education system.

Brian?

recedite wrote: »

I suggest you take a walk onto the campus of one the medical schools, and listen to the students chatting in arabic or urdu, or whatever it is.

I don’t need to walk anywhere. If you have proof, share it. If you don’t, then you should retract your earlier point.

RandomName2

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

Let me say at the outset that I have very little interest in engaging with you on the other statements in your post, as I find them to be quite troublesome, but I want to address one factual point.

There are zero EU students not being admitted to RCSI due to foreign students attending (of any religion). Furthermore, EU students absolutely do not compete with foreign students on fees, as EU students receive heavily subsidised fees.

It is very common knowledge that a significant percentage of medicine places in most Irish universities are reserved for non-EU students. This has nothing to do with religion, but rather the fact that Irish universities are able to generate considerable revenue through this means. I can't speak in relation to RCSI specifically, but this is pretty standard. If we want more national doctors we would want to reduce this practice, but third level apparently has a dearth of funding, so that's the balancing act being pursued.

Odhinn wrote: »

the notion that they're paying to "take" places from better qualified "irish students" is incorrect and strikes me as a tad bigoted.

Qualification has almost nothing to do with it. Our system is based upon supply and demand. Demand is high, and supply is unnaturally low, as such medicine requires 100% grades in all subjects in the Leaving Certificate (+ HPAT) for Irish students to be able to enter it. If more places opened up, or demand decreased, this would change. Alternatively EU people can often choose graduate entry, but this involves paying very large amounts of money in fees.

recedite wrote: »

Its competition for places.

Is there something I'm missing here? Are people being needlessly obtuse? I swear people in this thread are writing like they've never encountered the Irish education system. Having said that, I think that this is a different conversation. The retort isn't 'that sounds bigoted'. Christ. The retort should be 'how is the funding shortfall to be made up?'.

Brian? wrote: »

If this does happen, I agree that it’s wrong. Do you have any proof it does happen?

Brian? wrote: »

I don’t need to walk anywhere. If you have proof, share it. If you don’t, then you should retract your earlier point.

Edit: Jesus, Brian?, you're not a bad poster, but you don't half beat a point to death and then stick it in an Indian burial ground hoping it gets reanimated.

These figures are not immediately available to hand, but here's a quote from Fianna Fáil's Michael McGrath that's almost a decade old

"Since 2010, 35% of UCC's undergraduate medicine places have gone to non-EU students and these students are paying massive fees for the privilege of studying here. When it comes to graduate entry medicine places, the figures are even more stark with over 46% of places in UCC going to non-EU students," he said.


"I know of several families in Cork who are making incredible sacrifices to fund their son or daughter studying medicine in the UK because they couldn't get a place here. Many other students who would love to study medicine simply miss out on that opportunity entirely because so many places in UCC and other Universities are going to international students.

"I think we need a real debate as to whether the approach taken by UCC and other Universities is fair. My own personal view is that the Universities have become overly dependent on this source of income and Irish students who want to study medicine here are the ones unfairly paying the price,"

Brian?

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

^ Looks he's a migrant (originally from Senegal) who 'wishes to promote migration to Italy', by actually killing about 50 Italian schoolkids.

And people ask if the Italian public were wrong to express concerns with mass migraiton from Africa, Asia or the Middle East?

Then there is the question about why the school bus company wasn't aware of his prior convictions, namely: precedents for drunk driving and sexual abuse (really not ideal for driving kids to school).

So what’s your key take away?

Mine is that he shouldn’t have got a job driving a bus if he had drink driving and sex abuse convictions.

WinnyThePoo

Odhinn wrote: »

tretorn wrote: »

I know, sure life is wonderful for Muslim women and Irish women would be a lot more content if they adopted the Muslim way of life.

.................................

Nobody has stated that on this thread, so I'm unsure as to what you're getting at.



Do you acknowledge that the wearing of the burkha is by a tiny minority of
European muslims?

It's a well worn out trope. Basically we can only have two ways life. Christian(white values) or this 'invasion' and we are going to be out breed and Muslims are going to take over.

If course its completely unlogical bs.