DART attack last night

Effects

Stephen15 wrote: »

Working class kids wouldn't have the money to buy spray paint.

So they would just steal it instead or sell drugs to buy it.

Effects

Grandeeod wrote: »

Yes there is a graffiti problem, but this was thuggery and very little to do with graffiti arstists that spray trains in depots during the night.

Just slightly different tactics and morals.

Effects

Fiery mutant wrote: »

I think the difference here, is that the train was forcibly stopped, in the station by a gang of masked and armed men, for 15 minutes, in order to do damage.
In other European cities it tends to happen in stations while the trains are parked up.

Same thing happens abroad, and has been going on far longer than it has here.
When yards got hard to paint at night other tactics had to be adopted.
The only reason you don't know about it there is because it wasn't in the Irish news.

Stephen15

Effects wrote: »

So they would just steal it instead or sell drugs to buy it.

No they buy Nike/Adidas tracksuits and runners instead. Most people who do graffiti on bridges and trains are middle class dare devilly types and they have competitions it seems to get their graffiti in most most awkward and dangerous locations. In middle class areas the graffiti you get is mostly colourful and somewhat artistic I guess you could say. In council estates it's usually just things like IRA scrawled on walls etc.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

If you think Clongriffin is bad clearly you live a very sheltered life - there are many far worse areas of Dublin!

For Irish Rail its probably now top of the list for anti social behavior. There were/are plans but not sure what progress has been made.

Post 21.00 closure wouldn't do any harm indifferently. Plenty of people don't use the station anymore.

Effects

Stephen15 wrote: »

No they buy Nike/Adidas tracksuits and runners instead.

You shouldn't pigeonhole peasants like that.

Grandeeod

Effects wrote: »

Just slightly different tactics and morals.

:rolleyes: Yep whatever. This incident is not a graffiti problem. It's simply another social media organized crazy gang of scumbags.

Transport police, a concept we don't seem to worry about in Ireland, despite the AGS failing to address on street crime. We've a long way to go. Not my worry. I'm merely commenting.

Effects

Del.Monte wrote: »

I've been warning CIE about this carry on for years but to no avail. Nothing will change.
On Lavhline now.

How have you been warning them?

Stephen15

I was on an train in Italy there recently and I found it hard to find a seat where you could actually see out the window due the large amount of graffiti covering had the same problem in Portugal too the windows so it's definitely not an exclusive problem in Ireland.

You don't see too much graffiti on trains here in Ireland unless the trains have been parked up for a long time such the mk3's or the DART 8200 class. I wonder is this because IE are very good at removing it or is it not as big an issue here in Ireland.

TallGlass

So, I imagine a few 999 calls going in along the lines of there's a gang, wearing balaclavas, armed with knifes and bats, attacking a train.

Yet it takes the Garda or ERU 15 mins to respond. That is a serious fúcking joke.

Just be thankful it was just spray paint and not terrorist activity.

Someone needs to ask the Garda why it took them 15 mins to arrive.

goingnowhere

Exactly, no excuses the gardai should have been on site and in force a lot sooner. Try this in London, Berlin and if the cops show up its going to be heavy, armed and if you wave a weapon around you are getting zapped or shot.

Also you have a 999 call from Irish Rail control centre so no question as to the validity of the incident to the Gardai as they are watching it live on CCTV.

Arcade_Tryer

TallGlass wrote: »

Just be thankful it was just spray paint and not terrorist activity.

Indeed. The Dart from Dublin City to Malahide is a massive target for terrorists apparently.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Indeed. The Dart from Dublin City to Malahide is a massive target for terrorists apparently.

This kinda sneering response is a problem. The gardai should turn up in minutes for any mass social disorder, you know as practice for any potential terrorist attacks. Or mass shootings or mass violence. All of which are probable.

Arcade_Tryer

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

This kinda sneering response is a problem.

Indeed. A massive problem.

The gardai should turn up in minutes for any mass social disorder, you know as practice for any potential terrorist attacks. Or mass shootings or mass violence. All of which are probable.

How probable?

bodice ripper

Mad that everyone assumes you are talking kids here.

Del.Monte

Effects wrote: »

How have you been warning them?

How do you think. By repeatedly raising the matter - in writing - with the various CEOs in IE down the years. I was wasting my time of course but my conscience is clear as at least I tried rather than just giving out in the pub or on Boards.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Indeed. A massive problem.
How probable?

61.24564123500986%

If we don’t have an ERU prepared to get to any kind of emergency within minutes we should disband it.

JeffK88

Perhaps a transport police similar to the Airport Police could be established. They could cover bus/rail and perhaps Luas & eventually metro.

Effects

Del.Monte wrote: »

How do you think. By repeatedly raising the matter - in writing - with the various CEOs in IE down the years. I was wasting my time of course but my conscience is clear as at least I tried rather than just giving out in the pub or on Boards.

Dear CEO,
You need to do something about the scourge of graffiti on trains.
Heed my warning or some day a gang of youths will pull the emergency stop, block the doors and paint a whole carriage while wood and knife-weilding thugs threaten passengers.
At least my conscience will be clear when this one day comes to pass.
Regards,
Del Monte

TheBoyConor

Roy Batty wrote: »

How on earth can this happen in a modern European capital city ?
A train held up for 15 minutes by criminals, and no police arrive in time to arrest anyone ??

Exactly. Luckily they were spray painting but would the relaxed Garda response be the same if it was Allahu-snackbars running around slicing into passengers with machetes?
One should ring up and let them know that the tax disc on the train is out of date and they'd have an emergency response team at the station in 2 minutes.

Del.Monte

Effects wrote: »

Dear CEO,
You need to do something about the scourge of graffiti on trains.
Heed my warning or some day a gang of youths will pull the emergency stop, block the doors and paint a whole carriage while wood and knife-weilding thugs threaten passengers.
At least my conscience will be clear when this one day comes to pass.
Regards,
Del Monte

Hilarious - why don't you post up some copies of your correspondence with CIE about this matter? I can, but there's little point.

magicbastarder

it took 15 minutes for the first policeman to arrive at the bataclan massacre.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/police-praised-for-stopping-london-bridge-attack-in-eight-minutes

read the above, especially the last paragraph. that's in a city where the police are cued up for terrorist attacks. when was the last time we had a terrorist attack in dublin?

IngazZagni

magicbastarder wrote: »

it took 15 minutes for the first policeman to arrive at the bataclan massacre.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/police-praised-for-stopping-london-bridge-attack-in-eight-minutes

read the above, especially the last paragraph. that's in a city where the police are cued up for terrorist attacks. when was the last time we had a terrorist attack in dublin?

Those responses simply were not acceptable and will have been much improved since. Even so having 50 armed officers arrive within 12 minutes sounds pretty good compared to 2 probably unarmed guards in 15. Just because we have not had a major terrorist attack here in recent times is no excuse for us to be unprepared and have lax response times.

In a way this incident may be a good thing by helping focus minds on the fact that these people that do graffiti are anything but "artists" as some people call them. They are low life criminal thugs who cause millions of euro in damage every year at the taxpayers expense.

Credit to Irish Rail were it's due however. Graffiti attacks are common on trains here but mostly on out of service ones. Irish Rail removes this very quickly so much so that they often don't even enter service before it's removed. Shame they don't do the same about the walls along their tracks and that's were I'm going to give LUAS a huge amount of credit. They seem to have a permanent graffiti removal team and the walls along the line are cleaned regularly except were they do not own them so well done to them.

Roy Batty

Roy Batty wrote: »

How on earth can this happen in a modern European capital city ??

Happens all the time in mainland europe..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Lm0dkkVAw

Effects

Del.Monte wrote: »

Hilarious - why don't you post up some copies of your correspondence with CIE about this matter? I can, but there's little point.

I'd actually like to see you correspondence.
I've spoken with people in CIE but they have no idea of the mindset of people who do graffiti and don't care to know.

Effects

IngazZagni wrote: »

Shame they don't do the same about the walls along their tracks and that's were I'm going to give LUAS a huge amount of credit.

It's a huge ongoing cost. Clean stations of graffiti but leave the walls between stations.
Unless you clean it off within a couple of days it's not really a deterrent.

IngazZagni

Effects wrote: »

It's a huge ongoing cost. Clean stations of graffiti but leave the walls between stations.
Unless you clean it off within a couple of days it's not really a deterrent.

Then clean it off within days just as the Luas operators do and it works as a deterrent. You are basically tolerating crime with that attitude.

We won't stop it completly but it will be a big help. We also won't ever stop people littering completly so should we just stop cleaning it up? I'm sorry if I want higher standards for our city.

Del.Monte

At the risk of exciting Effects I have also corresponded with Luas and others about graffiti. Sometimes with success - Luas Beechwood Stop Cafe - and others (Charlemont Hilton Hotel) with less success. When I first contacted the Hilton they rectified the problem and removed the graffiti, but as I live down the country my trips over the Luas are infrequent and the Hilton is now in an awful state...:(

Graffiti must be removed ASAP, ideally within 24 hours.

http://irishrailways.blogspot.ie/2009/04/luas-crumbling-edge-of-quality.html

http://irishrailways.blogspot.ie/2009/05/now-you-see-it-now-you-dont.html

whisky_galore

Stephen15 wrote: »

Working class kids wouldn't have the money to buy spray paint.

The 'working class' that don't work, you mean?

n!ghtmancometh

Brother is a guard in an inner city Dublin station. They have at best maybe 2 patrol cars and four or five regular response/beat Gardai per shift on duty, (including the jailer/member in charge who obviously has the stay in the station) on duty most nights. A serious call in the district takes both those cars and cover has to come farther from other areas. ARU are mobile and could have been out on the other side of the city or tied up on another serious call, again taking time to reach the scene. That's how this happens. This isn't New York like.