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Could the Irish language be revived?

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    #212
    FingerDeKat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭FingerDeKat


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    ... said the guy who can't read other people's posts.

    I'll be here when you get back :) and as soon as someone quotes this post you'll be able to see it!
    Done :pac::pac:


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    #213
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    I came on this thread to discuss how the Irish language could be revived and instead find myself discussing why it should be revived even though there are countless other threads discussing this.

    Think I will leave this thread to the "should it be revived" brigade. I might return when they get bored of it. Until then have fun with it.

    In fairness to Shurimgreat he has a point re the title of the thread. You don't have to agree with his views on the Irish language to concede that to him.


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    #214
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Wow. So the French are allowed fight tooth and nail to protect their language but when we try the same we are laughed at and told to forget it.

    There's a critical difference. French is a language that the vast majority of French people speak; Irish is a language that the vast majority of Irish people don't speak. But that's beside the point, which is that French identity is in no way compromised by the fact they they aren't speaking the language of their ancient ancestors - something you say is crucial for identity to stay intact.
    Its ok for the French but not the Irish and we should just become a compliant dependent state of the UK and the US so they can do business here and take profits from here.

    Anything to please the Yanks I suppose.

    Um...you'll have to explain to me how this is in any way relevant.

    Cultural identity is important. The French realised that a long time ago. You don't surrender cultural identity easily, unless it seems you are Irish.

    Still missing the point. The French aren't speaking their original language, yet they seem to be blissfully unaware of the hole that must have been blown in their national identity, according to you. Maybe you should tell them. :)


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    #215
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,780 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    You're the one getting defensive when I present facts.

    Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam

    Aww how quaint and irrelevant you are by posting that quote. You still are ignoring the discussion and have not presented addressed the topic do you agree or disagree that Irish should stay being "taught" the same way it currently is


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    #216
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,205 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    feargale wrote: »
    In fairness to Shurimgreat he has a point re the title of the thread. You don't have to agree with his views on the Irish language to concede that to him.

    True - but the answer is still the same: not without forcing it on people and their kids and their simply isn't the will. And shaming people is not going to help (as he hopefully has found out by this stage)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #217
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,925 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Pugzilla wrote: »

    Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam

    Inevitable that this well-worn old chestnut gets trotted out.

    Languages fell into disuse and became extinct before and life went on.
    Doesn't mean a country loses it's 'soul', whatever that means, either.


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    #218
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,294 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    When you mentioned gulags I stopped taking you seriously.

    lol

    Yet we're supposed to take seriously a plan to immerse every child in the country in Irish for the first five years of their lives, even though we can barely find enough Irish teachers to teach the very basic curriculum as it is, and even though 99% of parents don't speak Irish in the home.

    If the last 90 years have taught us anything, it's that talk is cheap. Aspirations to "restore the national language", "reunite the national territory", "drain the Shannon" etc. are just shyte talk peddled by politicians who know well that the public won't stomach what is actually needed to be done if these things are to be achieved.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #219
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,294 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    I really think you are struggling with the difference between could and should by the way.

    Can it? No.

    Should it? IMHO, no.


    /thread

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #220
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    You're the one getting defensive when I present facts.

    Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam

    Writing Irish on a board that's in english isn't on. That smacks of looking down on all the people who don't speak Irish. If you're not willing to engage with people as equals than you really shouldn't bother.


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    #221
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,294 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You're not missing out on anything in that sentence, it's just a meaningless mantra beloved by the grant-grabbers.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #222
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Wow. So the French are allowed fight tooth and nail to protect their language but when we try the same we are laughed at and told to forget it.
    Its ok for the French but not the Irish and we should just become a compliant dependent state of the UK and the US so they can do business here and take profits from here.

    Anything to please the Yanks I suppose.

    Cultural identity is important. The French realised that a long time ago. You don't surrender cultural identity easily, unless it seems you are Irish.

    We have a cultural identity. It's a really strong one. The language doesn't define us, we do. If everyone in france started speaking german tomorrow do you think they'd suddenly stop drinking wine and eating baguettes? Suddenly it'd be frankfurters and beer?

    Plus we'd taken the english language and made it our own. Hiberno english is rich in it's diversity. There's a huge amount of it that we share throughout the country and at the same time there's so much localized stuff. It's easy to differentiate between a Dub and a Cork person.

    I think wrt the irish language we've failed abysmally. The numbers have been in steady decline for decades.It may be possible to revive it but I'd only be ok with it if there was a clear plan that didn't cost a fortune. If the plan is to keep doing what we've been doing then we should just give up because it's not working at all.

    I think that for years we had crap like peig forced down our throats. The attempt to revive the language was tied to what a minority felt Irish culture should be. If it's to be revived all that cultural stuff needs to be abandoned and they should focus on the language itself.


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    #223
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    We need more gaelscoileanna. The current ones are heavily oversubscribed, showing a demand is there for them. It's a much more natural and organic way of learning a language. I don't know of anyone who went to a gaelscoil that resents it.


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    #224
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    We need more gaelscoileanna. The current ones are heavily oversubscribed, showing a demand is there for them. It's a much more natural and organic way of learning a language. I don't know of anyone who went to a gaelscoil that resents it.

    It is fundamentally wrong to segregate children into different types of school, particularly at primary level. It is a form of apartheid which should not be encouraged. We are struggling to escape from religious apartheid in our schools. We do not need to introduce another version of apartheid.
    There should be no discrimination in the education system.


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    #225
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    It is fundamentally wrong to segregate children into different types of school, particularly at primary level. It is a form of apartheid which should not be encouraged. We are struggling to escape from religious apartheid in our schools. We do not need to introduce another version of apartheid.
    There should be no discrimination in the education system.

    It's not apartheid. There are non nationals with children in gaelscoileanna.


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    #226
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    The only way I see to revive Irish would be to turn all schools into gaelscoils, make RTE As Gaelige only, basically get rid of the English option when it comes to everthing state related for example all passport application in Irish, all road signs in Irish, all court sessions sat through Irish if someone dosen't speak Irish they could have a translator, all GP visits through Irish and so on. Eventually everybody would speak not out of choice but through necessity. Would this be popular in the short term no, would it work yes, would it be a good idea probably not.


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