Could the Irish language be revived?

JohnKyle39

The Welsh language was going extinct and they were able to revive it and now there are parts of wales that only speak welsh and the numbers
of Welsh speakers is growing. They are trying to hit 1 million speakers by 2050.

Could the Irish language be revived and have larger Irish only speaking areas?

Wanderer78

JohnKyle39 wrote:

Could the Irish language be revived and have larger Irish speaking areas?

Of course it could be but not the way it's currently being rammed into our heads

SusieBlue

The way its being taught is the problem.
If it was learned organically, through speaking, as it is in Gaelscoils, there wouldn't be half the problems there are today. Instead we force uninterested kids heads into books, studying verbs and language rules that they neither understand nor care about.
The way Gaelscoils teach the language is so much more natural.

JupiterKid

With great effort and some fresh thinking, it could reverse its seemingly terminal decline. But the Gaeltacht is almost all but gone now. There are maps showing its extent in the 1950s and today and the shrinkige is alarming. Ill see if I can dig them out and post them up.

The Gaelscoils might be a help in this regard. But it is patently clear the way Irish has been taught in nearly all other schools the past 90 odd years has been an utter and abject failure. Irish should definitely be made optional at Leaving cert level. I myself left school with French as one of my better subjects and Irish as my worst. If current trends continue, outside of a tiny community the Irish language will effectively be gone by 2050.

The general trend globally is for major languages such as English - currently the lingua Franca of global finance and commerce - to grow and spread and for minor, regional ones to go extinct. Irish is no exception to this. It will be an uphill battle but with the way things are going, the prognosis is bleak.

irishguitarlad

I think when they teach it in secondary schools the grammar rules should be taught in English to differentiate in your head because that way it takes less effort to memorize and internalize. I do this sometimes with Spanish and it works great. English grammar should also be taught in secondary schools more as when you know the mechanics of your own language, it makes it easier to learn another.

PlaneSpeeking

I was never taught it in school (lived in UK) but my old auntie from West Cork used to teach me swear words when I visited on holiday.

By the time I was 17 I had such a filthy vocabulary, I wish I'd have kept learning.

SEPT 23 1989

Quickest way to revive it is to ban it

pickarooney

A lot bigger languages than Irish are likely to die out at the current rate.
If the will to retain it doesn't surpass the practicality of not speaking it, there's no hope for it, and that will has to extend beyond "I'd like to be able to speak it but won't make a really concerted effort"

whisky_galore

We can revive the Irish language revival thread....

Are Am Eye

Welsh should be the ISO, langua franca for the world. With all other
languages outlawed.

What's the point in having more than one language in the world?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Before you ask the question of whether or not it can be revived:

1 - do we want it revived?
2 - who's going to be doing all the work of learning it?

topper75

I don't think Welsh was ever going extinct though was it?

They didn't revive it off a low base AFAIK.

Welsh is in good shape because it is spoken by prods. Prods love their bible, see, and must be literate to read it. Also prods don't muck about with Latin. Their bible must be in their vernacular, Welsh. Hence a thriving Welsh literature in Cymru.

The Gaels of Erin, being priest-lead Catholics, weren't as big into the whole reading and writing thing. So no meaningful corpus published in recent centuries. Because no commercial market for it. So a pushover when challenged by a foreign tongue of commerce, English. It got walloped.

Nach gcuirfeadh sé sin brón ort?

Solomon Pleasant

I followed the bog standard route of starting to learn irish at 5 and finishing at 17 - My standard of Irish was poor even though I completed the honours paper in the Leaving Cert.

In stark contrast, I’m fluent in German and currently study in Germany, entirely through German.

I regularly speak with people from all over Europe and the world and I always feel a little bit jealous that they can speak their own language among themselves and I have no notion what they’re saying, meanwhile myself and other irish students can only communicate through English. The vast majority of foreign students have a very high level of English - proof that bi-lingualism is very doable.

It won’t be revived as people aren’t motivated enough to learn the language and the system isn’t in place to cater for a revival.

storker

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

Could the Irish language be revived

Yes, by banning the speaking of it, which would be followed by a huge increase in usage in a short time.

facehugger99

Of course it could but it would cost even more money than the stupid amounts we're spending on it now and involve completely over-hauling the way it's being taught.

But what would be the point anyway?

It's highly likely in a few generations it'll be gone for good - can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Completely ridiculous to have persisted with this sham for so long.

JupiterKid

The Gaeltacht in 1926, circa 1960 and 2007. See a noticeable trend?

1926



1956



2007

TomSweeney

It doesn't help either that the fascists in the Gaelteacht send kids home that speak english, what kind of nonsense is that ?

Solomon Pleasant

facehugger99 wrote: »

Of course it could but it would cost even more money than the stupid amounts we're spending on it now and involve completely over-hauling the way it's being taught.

But what would be the point anyway?

It's highly likely in a few generations it'll be gone for good - can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Completely ridiculous to have persisted with this sham for so long.

I really hate the attitude of “the language is a joke, worthless and a piece of ****e” which is so prevalent in Ireland.

I’m not very patriotic or even nationalist in my views but it shows ignorance and poor awareness of what languages are, and their importance.

Amirani

I don't think the teaching is the problem as many people claim. Fundamentally the problem is that learning it offers almost zero discernible benefit to anyone learning it, so there's no incentive to work hard to become fluent in it. I can read/speak it passably, having done Higher Level all through school and in the Leaving Cert, but it's completely irrelevant in my day-to-day existence.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Immersion is the only way to become fluent in a language.

I never took to it in the classroom but when I'd spend 3 weeks at the Gaeltacht in the summer I'd come home with a decent command of it.

Then I'd go back to school in Sept and regress again.

clio_16v

Conversational Irish should be taught from the start. Rules / tenses after. I love Irish and had an ok standard when I did my leaving but its all but gone now. I don't think it's irrelevant or a waste of time. It's not going to help you work or study abroad or anything like that. I think it's about identity and culture. We should be proud to be Irish and celebrate it through the cupla focal we might have

TallGlass

It so sad really, a fully functional language there we should all use. Myself included, I can blame everyone and anything, but I see no use, if I said a few words to someone in a shop, I would be looked at with three heads.

Yet in work, there are Indian guys who speak a mix of English/Indian in the same sentence to each other.

I wonder sometimes to myself, is my brain so occupied with English and learning dialects, from here there and everywhere that it's nearly the same as learning another language.

But I know deep down, it's not it's just an excuse, the reason Irish fails, is because, verbally it's isn't used at all. We can learn, this tense, spelling what ever, but if we don't speak it, then it's going no where.

Any chance of revival has to be based on bi lingual, with the majority of word English to Irish.

Trying to learn it is a nightmare to be perfectly honest. And at the same time, it shouldn't be a nightmare at all. On paper I think French is easiest to learn but Irish is more related to English.

My conclusion is it needs more speaking, focus on the other particulars later.

I don't remember learning English, that's a starting point. It was spoken, when I was 3/4 I started to learn the rules.

Zirconia

"Could the Irish language be revived? "
I sincerely hope not - I won't be speaking it anyway, I can't stand it!

dude_abided

Nope the English have taken over. :pac:

Ursus Horribilis

No, that horse has long since bolted. Life is just so much easier when English is your first language. It's why Irish people stopped speaking the language in the first place.

yesto24

The main reason (only reason) Welsh is spoken is because they have nothing else to identify themselves.
They are not an independent country, they are tge subject of many jokes, their flag in not part of the UK flag.
Sporting success is long gone or never existed.
What have they got?
Well we have our language. That's all they got.
Compare this to Ireland.
We have our independence, we have our own flag.
We have no need to show our individuality by speaking a different language, despite what some Irish language fanatics may think.

whisky_galore

People simply aren't interested....and you can't force them to use it with education, encouragement, bullying or any amount of funding. People will go out of their way to spend their hard earned cash to be able to play sports, dance or learn music but very few will bother do that with Irish.

Ursus Horribilis

It's mostly used these days as a social status thing anyway, isn't it? Sending young Jack and Chloe to the gaelscoil rather than having to mix with the riff raff in the local school.

OldMrBrennan83

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ted1

TomSweeney wrote: »

It doesn't help either that the fascists in the Gaelteacht send kids home that speak english, what kind of nonsense is that ?

There's different levels I Gaelteachts some are strict some aren't.

If a kid is sent home its own to the
Parents sending them to the wrong one and not looking into it

ted1

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

It's mostly used these days as a social status thing anyway, isn't it? Sending young Jack and Chloe to the gaelscoil rather than having to mix with the riff raff in the local school.

I hear that a!it and it's utter rubbish.
I sent my kids to one because the Gael colaiste it feeds into always ranks in the top 5 school for results and it's free, there's a scarcity of good free secondary schools between the N11 and the sea

Discodog

ted1 wrote: »

I hear that a!it and it's utter rubbish.
I sent my kids to one because the Gael colaiste it feeds into always ranks in the top 5 school for results and it's free, there's a scarcity of good free secondary schools between the N11 and the sea

I wonder how many of those kids will be speaking Irish at University or for the rest of there lives ?

nikkibikki

TallGlass wrote:

It so sad really, a fully functional language there we should all use. Myself included, I can blame everyone and anything, but I see no use, if I said a few words to someone in a shop, I would be looked at with three heads.

That would depend on the shop! One I go to, if the owner knows you can speak a bit of Irish, he will refuse to speak to you in English!

TallGlass wrote:

Yet in work, there are Indian guys who speak a mix of English/Indian in the same sentence to each other.

That's how Irish is spoken these days too by a lot of fluent speakers I know.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

clio_16v wrote: »

Conversational Irish should be taught from the start. Rules / tenses after. I love Irish and had an ok standard when I did my leaving but its all but gone now. I don't think it's irrelevant or a waste of time. It's not going to help you work or study abroad or anything like that. I think it's about identity and culture. We should be proud to be Irish and celebrate it through the cupla focal we might have

I hate people using the word "We" when they mean "I".

It might be part of your culture and your identiy ,but you can not say that a language a person can not speak and has no interest in is a part of their identity, and there many people who fall into that cateogory.

This is why I think we should be asking "do we want it revived?" before we start asking questions like "can it?" and "how?" - there are plenty of resources open to learning Irish for adults, but if they aren't being utilised for whatever reason, you have to go back and ask if the will is really there.

Agricola

I was about to say it's more to do with the way it's taught, ie drilling verb conjugation into your head before you can even string a sentence together. But now that I think about it, I did french for 5 years in school and there was a shítload of verbs to be learned in that, as well as the whole masculine/feminine noun thing.

In my rose tinted memory, it's as if we did nothing in french class but learn how to fluent for the purpose of being a tourist but it was probably every bit as regimented as Irish certainly was.
In that case I can only put it down to two things. French is actually useful and even as kids we knew that..... and my french teacher was a much nicer individual than the nasty, dried up aul bint I had for Irish.

JohnMc1

If Varadkar has his way we'll be speaking Arabic within a decade.

OldMrBrennan83

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If Varadkar has his way we'll be speaking Arabic within a decade.

Bloody hell - not everything's about ****ing immigration.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Patww79 wrote: »

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English will be taxed at the very least. Along with breathing.[/quote]
And not everything's about ****ing economics either.

OldMrBrennan83

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One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I hate people using the word "We" when they mean "I".

It might be part of your culture and your identiy ,but you can not say that a language a person can not speak and has no interest in is a part of their identity, and there many people who fall into that cateogory.

This is why I think we should be asking "do we want it revived?" before we start asking questions like "can it?" and "how?" - there are plenty of resources open to learning Irish for adults, but if they aren't being utilised for whatever reason, you have to go back and ask if the will is really there.

But you just did the very same thing PB?

Nobody is suggesting that if you aren't Irish that the language is part of your culture, but the Irish language itself is part of Irish culture and Irish cultural identity, and for those of us who identify as Irish and can speak the language, we should make more of an effort to do so and should be proud to do so. That's all that poster was suggesting, and I agree with them.

I make an effort to speak Irish with those people I know can speak Irish, Mandarin with those people I know can speak Mandarin, Polish with those people I know can speak Polish, French with... you get the idea. At the moment I'm learning Hindi and Sanskrit from a couple of people I work with, and they love learning Irish.

The will is certainly there among adults who have never had exposure to the way too many Irish adults feel about their own language and cultural identity. It's as though some people imagine they have to be more "European" and forego their own national identity, while at the same time never stopping to notice that in almost every other European country, English is the second language after their own native language.

Del2005

JupiterKid wrote: »

The Gaeltacht in 1926, circa 1960 and 2007. See a noticeable trend?

1926



1956



2007

I was listening to the radio recently , I think it was Newstalk, and a reporter went to a Gealtacht area. Everywhere they went people where speaking English and the person in the shop said they rarely had Irish spoken to them. So if the people in Irish speaking areas don't use it it's not got much hope.

indioblack

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

The Welsh language was going extinct and they were able to revive it and now there are parts of wales that only speak welsh and the numbers
of Welsh speakers is growing. They are trying to hit 1 million speakers by 2050.

Could the Irish language be revived and have larger Irish only speaking areas?

No. If there was genuine interest it would have happened by now.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Patww79 wrote: »

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Then let's talk about the bloody language, shall we?!

OldMrBrennan83

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One eyed Jack wrote: »

But you just did the very same thing PB?

Nobody is suggesting that if you aren't Irish that the language is part of your culture, but the Irish language itself is part of Irish culture and Irish cultural identity, and for those of us who identify as Irish and can speak the language, we should make more of an effort to do so and should be proud to do so. That's all that poster was suggesting, and I agree with them.

I make an effort to speak Irish with those people I know can speak Irish, Mandarin with those people I know can speak Mandarin, Polish with those people I know can speak Polish, French with... you get the idea. At the moment I'm learning Hindi and Sanskrit from a couple of people I work with, and they love learning Irish.

The will is certainly there among adults who have never had exposure to the way too many Irish adults feel about their own language and cultural identity. It's as though some people imagine they have to be more "European" and forego their own national identity, while at the same time never stopping to notice that in almost every other European country, English is the second language after their own native language.

I'm not telling people how they should feel about something - I'm advising how to approach a problem if they they want to resolve an issue or improve a situation. If they don't, then fine: their choice.

Saying that "we should make more of an effort to do so and should be proud to do so" is fine - but again the question was not what "should" be the case, but what actually "is" the case?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Patww79 wrote: »

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So... what's this got to do with Leo and taxes?!

OldMrBrennan83

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Mrsmum

It would be a real shame imo to let it die as it is such a beautiful language. I always think it's got real soul, just the way things are said - I'm sad, boring English - tá brón orm, the sadness is on me, expresses so much more about what sadness is and how one feels if suffering from that emotion. And all the amazing seanfhocail - Mol an óige agus tiocfaidh said etc. Even greetings, Dia dhuit, Dia is Mhuire Dhuit is such an expansive greeting.
Had a fantastic Irish teacher at school. She used to say never mind the rules, listen to the wonderful sounds. I think the biggest problem for adults that would like to speak it a bit more in their daily lives is that you feel you have to be really good at it, ie that the broken Irish that most of us have is unacceptable.

One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm not telling people how they should feel about something - I'm advising how to approach a problem if they they want to resolve an issue or improve a situation. If they don't, then fine: their choice.

Saying that "we should make more of an effort to do so and should be proud to do so" is fine - but again the question was not what "should" be the case, but what actually "is" the case?

No, the question is could the Irish language be revived? You appear to want to ask a different question as opposed to just answering the question that's being asked. If you think it couldn't be revived, fair enough, but you only need to answer the question for yourself. There's no need to ask would we want it revived, that question is already implicit in asking could it be revived?

The OP would hardly be asking the question if they weren't interested in it's revival. Any language could be revived if it were possible to generate an interest in it and get more people passionate about the language, but unfortunately due to the way it's taught differently from other modern European languages, young people being taught Irish simply have nothing to relate it to, as other parts of Irish culture have suffered similar erasure over the last number of decades.

MarkY91

What benefit would it bring to it being revived?

I wish my school days doing Irish could have been replaced by a European language. You know, something I can actually use in life.