Could the Irish language be revived?

trellheim

As part of Brexit I expect France in particular to push for a lot more use of non-English working languages. ROI's official EU language is not English - it's Irish.

I think it will be interesting to watch ...

Electric Sheep

whisky_galore wrote: »

Most people who choose to leave this country to set up shop elsewhere will naturally head to the Anglophone countries, UK, Aus., US, NZ.

Yes, they generally have little choice having no working knowledge of any other language.

VinLieger

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes, they generally have little choice having no working knowledge of any other language.

Which again is in part due to such a ridiculous mandatory importance being placed on a dead useless language

Hotblack Desiato

Pugzilla wrote: »

Your ancestors spoke Irish for nearly 2 millennia.

So... before that they spoke something else? If age is the yardstick for authenticity and "genuine Irishness" then maybe that's the language that we really should be reviving then?

What if his ancestors include Vikings? Normans? or (shudder! but they walk among us) English? Does he have to pass some sort of a blood test to be "really Irish" or is it just a language test?

Keep going, this stuff is hilarious!

Permabear

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Hotblack Desiato

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You mightn't agree with the teaching of Irish but some of your standpoints are laughable.

I didn't hear back from you as to how we are to teach by immersion all 0-5 year olds, nearly all of whom won't be in school yet?

Gulags as gaeilge is it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Obviously you think Irish is a foreign language then and English is our native language.

Why is it so hard to understand the difference between "my" and "our"..? Seriously? The whole theme of the post you replied to was indivisuality and you go an write that??

You remind me of an American who thinks native Americans should return to their own country. Guess what, a nations culture is often thousands of years old, language is a key ingredient and we are all mere caretakers of that culture to hand over to future generations.

Again. Individuality. An individual is not a nation and you have no idea what my culture is because it's not based on a nationality, so the above is bull****.

You mightn't agree with the teaching of Irish but some of your standpoints are laughable.

You have no idea what my standpoints are - you evidently don't read my posts.

Shurimgreat

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I didn't hear back from you as to how we are to teach by immersion all 0-5 year olds, nearly all of whom won't be in school yet?

Gulags as gaeilge is it?

When you mentioned gulags I stopped taking you seriously.

whisky_galore

trellheim wrote: »

As part of Brexit I expect France in particular to push for a lot more use of non-English working languages. ROI's official EU language is not English - it's Irish.

I think it will be interesting to watch ...

It's a nice daydream for you but no, it won't. I'd put the popcorn away.

Permabear

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Shurimgreat

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Why is it so hard to understand the difference between "my" and "our"..? Seriously? The whole theme of the post you replied to was indivisuality and you go an write that??



Again. Individuality. An individual is not a nation and you have no idea what my culture is because it's not based on a nationality, so the above is bull****.



You have no idea what my standpoints are - you evidently don't read my posts.

ok then.
We live in a democracy. As long as the majority of TDs in Dail Eireann as elected by the Irish people wish Irish to be taught or maintained as is, its going to remain that way.
Whether you like it or not is largely irrelevant.

You are just venting at this stage. There is little or no hope of Irish being dropped as the national language and/or being dropped from schools in the near term.

So now that's dealt with, we can return to the subject of this thread, could Irish be revived.

If you want to discuss should it be revived you probably should open a new thread or post on the many other existing ones.

I really think you are struggling with the difference between could and should by the way.

whisky_galore

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes, they generally have little choice having no working knowledge of any other language.

Maybe if they got off their h*les and learned another language?
It's just the path of least resistance, or effort.

Shurimgreat

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Can you tell me what the native language of Native Americans Is? Or the Native language of Native Aboriginals?

whisky_galore

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Can you tell me what the native language of Native Americans Is? Or the Native language of Native Aboriginals?

There's no single language for either of those groups.

Shurimgreat

whisky_galore wrote: »

There's no single language for either of those groups.

There isn't but they each have their own native languages. Its a concept a lot of people struggle with.

A lot of people who hate Irish made little or no effort to learn it in school. They are informed by their own personal experience of learning the language. In other words they are not objective about it. When they talk about it, its usually "I", "My", "Me". They struggle to look at it objectively in the overall scheme of a national identity. In fact they don't seem to value national identity. The word laziness comes to mind.

storker

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You remind me of an American who thinks native Americans should return to their own country. Guess what, a nations culture is often thousands of years old, language is a key ingredient and we are all mere caretakers of that culture to hand over to future generations. .

The French don't seem too bothered by the replacement of the language spoken by their 2,000-year-old Gaul ancestors with a language that evolved from that spoken by their Roman conquerors. So much have they embraced it that they take steps to guard against its dilution by English. Try telling a Frenchman that he's missing a key ingredient of his identity...

Shurimgreat

storker wrote: »

The French don't seem too bothered by the replacement of the language spoken by their 2,000-year-old Gaul ancestors with a language that evolved from that spoken by their Roman conquerors. So much have they embraced it that they take steps to guard against its dilution by English. Try telling a Frenchman that he's missing a key ingredient of his identity...

Wow. So the French are allowed fight tooth and nail to protect their language but when we try the same we are laughed at and told to forget it.
Its ok for the French but not the Irish and we should just become a compliant dependent state of the UK and the US so they can do business here and take profits from here.

Anything to please the Yanks I suppose.

Cultural identity is important. The French realised that a long time ago. You don't surrender cultural identity easily, unless it seems you are Irish.

whisky_galore

Shurimgreat wrote: »

They struggle to look at it objectively in the overall scheme of a national identity. In fact they don't seem to value national identity. The word laziness comes to mind.

If people are resistant, apathetic or maybe too lazy to learn Irish.... why bother foisting both it and the view that they 'should learn it' on them?

People are only going to kick back. It does nothing to popularise the language.

briany

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

English has had a strong presence on the eastern seaboard of Ireland for at least 500 years. I think on that basis, there's an argument to be made that Irish is more native to some areas than others.

The Scots had the sense to recognise their own historical/geographic split in usage of language by giving more recognition to Gáidhlig in Highland areas while not imposing it on the lowlands.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Shurimgreat wrote: »

ok then.
We live in a democracy. As long as the majority of TDs in Dail Eireann as elected by the Irish people wish Irish to be taught or maintained as is, its going to remain that way.
Whether you like it or not is largely irrelevant.

That's not a democracy, that's an oligarchy. Ireland isn't an oligachy. In any case, do you seriously expect it to bring about a revival being "taught and mainted as it is"? If so, how?

You are just venting at this stage. There is little or no hope of Irish being dropped as the national language and/or being dropped from schools in the near term.

Strawman argument.

So now that's dealt with, we can return to the subject of this thread, could Irish be revived.

If you want to discuss should it be revived you probably should open a new thread or post on the many other existing ones.

I really think you are struggling with the difference between could and should by the way.

Been there. "Could"? No - no desire from those who can't and no ability from those who can.
"Should"? - depends on how you go about it:
If you force it on people,. then no. Democracy: people get to choose for themselves; not have an elected representative make the choice for them.
If you don't then the answer is the same as "could" so the question is irrelevant.
All stated in several posts by me in this thread.

Question for you: do you think people - adults and children - should be forced to learn the language?
(And if you say yes to children only, then why not adults?)

VinLieger

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Wow. So the French are allowed fight tooth and nail to protect their language but when we try the same we are laughed at and told to forget it.
Its ok for the French but not the Irish and we should just become a compliant dependent state of the UK and the US so they can do business here and take profits from here.

Anything to please the Yanks I suppose.

Cultural identity is important. The French realised that a long time ago. You don't surrender cultural identity easily, unless it seems you are Irish.

Well done on missing the point entirely that most people are clearly in favour of a revival but the current methods aren't working and likely are a core part of the problem. But again people like yourself who are so adamant to fight "tooth and nail" won't actually take on any progressive suggestions bar keeping doing what we are doing with irish being mandatory and forcing it down childrens throats with learning by rote..... cus thats worked so well for the last 40+ years



We all know the definition of insanity right.....?

Permabear

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Permabear

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Shurimgreat

I came on this thread to discuss how the Irish language could be revived and instead find myself discussing why it should be revived even though there are countless other threads discussing this.

Think I will leave this thread to the "should it be revived" brigade. I might return when they get bored of it. Until then have fun with it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I came on this thread to discuss how the Irish language could be revived and instead find myself discussing why it should be revived even though there are countless other threads discussing this.

Think I will leave this thread to the "should it be revived" brigade. I might return when they get bored of it. Until then have fun with it.

Good idea. Your revival ideas were rubbish (continue to force it on teenagers as it is, and immerse toddlers in it?!) and you reacted with accusations and bull**** when cornered,

Shurimgreat

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Good idea. Your revival ideas were rubbish (continue to force it on teenagers as it is, and immerse toddlers in it?!) and you reacted with accusations and bull**** when cornered,

One of the pleasures of the Ignore function on here is I don't have to read your posts anymore. Goodbye

As for the thread I might return when those who can't distinguish could from should have left. Its odd that people who struggle with the basics of the English language feel a need to preach about languages to others!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Shurimgreat wrote: »

One of the pleasures of the Ignore function on here is I don't have to read your posts anymore. Goodbye

As for the thread I might return when those who can't distinguish could from should have left. Its odd that people who struggle with the basics of the English language feel a need to preach about languages to others!

... said the guy who can't read other people's posts.

I'll be here when you get back and as soon as someone quotes this post you'll be able to see it!

facehugger99

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I came on this thread to discuss how the Irish language could be revived and instead find myself discussing why it should be revived even though there are countless other threads discussing this.

Think I will leave this thread to the "should it be revived" brigade. I might return when they get bored of it. Until then have fun with it.

What a wonderful strop.

PopePalpatine

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I came on this thread to discuss how the Irish language could be revived and instead find myself discussing why it should be revived even though there are countless other threads discussing this.

Think I will leave this thread to the "should it be revived" brigade. I might return when they get bored of it. Until then have fun with it.

If only the quangos had your sense.

Pugzilla

VinLieger wrote: »

Its funny how much of an inferiority complex you have that you feel the need to tell people what language is or isnt "theirs"

You're the one getting defensive when I present facts.

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam