Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee *poll not working - pl ignore*

Skyfloater

steddyeddy wrote: »

More interesting would be how many of them are related to each other.

Think you might a zero too many there.

glenfieldman

She really is tone deaf to the publics opinion

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rtes-payroll-cut-includes-wages-of-the-late-marian-finucane-and-retired-sean-orourke-39997800.html

The J Stands for Jay

Scotty # wrote: »

It's irrelevant who the presenter is. The point is it's not the licence fee that's paying their wages, it's the advertising.

Missing the point there a bit. If its not about the presenters, why not get some kid in on minimum wage to replace them and save a fortune which could be spent on public service broadcasting?

retalivity

glenfieldman wrote: »

She really is tone deaf to the publics opinion

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rtes-payroll-cut-includes-wages-of-the-late-marian-finucane-and-retired-sean-orourke-39997800.html

If not for his ill-fated trip to Clifden, SOR would have been back in the door earning tidy sums as a contractor post-retirement, so RTE were really forced to 'cut' his wages - they did everything possible to keep paying him.

The J Stands for Jay

glenfieldman wrote: »

She really is tone deaf to the publics opinion

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rtes-payroll-cut-includes-wages-of-the-late-marian-finucane-and-retired-sean-orourke-39997800.html

A quote in the article say an hour of late late toy show advertising pays for Tubbs for a whole year. Is there an hour of advertising on the LLTS? Even if the repeats are taken into account, can that be true?

Elmo

glenfieldman wrote: »

She really is tone deaf to the publics opinion

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rtes-payroll-cut-includes-wages-of-the-late-marian-finucane-and-retired-sean-orourke-39997800.html

So is their former commerical director Willie O'Reilly

"RTÉ has reduced overall annual operating costs by over €100m since 2008 and last year targeted additional savings of €60m over three years, which we are on course to deliver.

"In that context, we continue to keep the fees of our highest-paid presenters under constant review.”

Since she became DG (2016) there have been not cuts except in 2020, which are largely made up due to retirement and death.

2020 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 2014
2740 3220 3222 3074 3030 2876 2666
-15% 0% 5% 1% 5% 8% -14%

Elmo

McGaggs wrote: »

A quote in the article say an hour of late late toy show advertising pays for Tubbs for a whole year. Is there an hour of advertising on the LLTS? Even if the repeats are taken into account, can that be true?

If RTÉ sell 30sec spot add at 30,000 euro
and they are allowed 9mins of ads per hour
then over the course of a 2 hour show they can sell 36 spots excluding ads before and after the show

RTÉ would make est €1,080,000 on the night.

That would pay for a third of RTÉ's children's budget!

Scotty #

Elmo wrote: »

If RTÉ sell 30sec spot add at 30,000 euro

The first ad, on the first ad break, in both the live show and the Sunday repeat, is €78,000. The second ad is €56,000. I don't know how much subsequent ads are. Promotions during the show (one for everyone in the audience!) are €10k each. Then you also have the RTE player ads for the toy show.

I'm sure I read somewhere that all in all the Toy Show is worth about €3.5m to RTE (which would actually cover the entire payroll for the TOP 10 presenters in one night).

AndyBoBandy

Scotty # wrote: »

I read somewhere that all in all the Toy Show is worth about €3.5m to RTE (which would actually cover the entire payroll for the TOP 10 presenters in one night).

All they need is to cover the other 1,790 'staff' and they'd be self sufficient.....

median salary is €60,000 (€60,000 x 1,800 = €108m in salary/contractor fee's), so only another €104.5m to generate - just to pay the RTÉ wages...

If only they could have a toy show every week eh?

Scotty #

McGaggs wrote: »

Missing the point there a bit. If its not about the presenters, why not get some kid in on minimum wage to replace them and save a fortune which could be spent on public service broadcasting?

But you wouldn't be saving a fortune, that's my point!

The top presenters generate the vast majority of the commercial income but they cost LESS THAN 1% of expenditure.

It's always the 'overpaid' presenters that get it in the neck when people moan about the licence fee but the reality is they're almost an insignificant portion of it. Getting rid of them wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the return on value of the licence fee. Not a bit!

Scotty #

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

median salary is €60,000 (€60,000 x 1,800 = €108m in salary/contractor fee's), so only another €104.5m to generate - just to pay the RTÉ wages...

Ad revenue in last report was €145m.

AndyBoBandy

Scotty # wrote: »

Ad revenue in last report was €148m.

so then they have €40m of surplus ad revenue, as well as all the TV licence money....... and they still can't break even!!!

Scotty #

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

so then they have €40m of surplus ad revenue, as well as all the TV licence money....... and they still can't break even!!!

The have a number of sectors that run at a loss. The orchestra for example, €17m/year. LyricFM and RnaG, €18m/year.

The wage bill on only one section of expenditure.

AndyBoBandy

I would have assumed that the vast majority of the €17m a year spent on the orchestra is on wages!!

The J Stands for Jay

Scotty # wrote: »

But you wouldn't be saving a fortune, that's my point!

The top presenters generate the vast majority of the commercial income but they cost LESS THAN 1% of expenditure.

It's always the 'overpaid' presenters that get it in the neck when people moan about the licence fee but the reality is they're almost an insignificant portion of it. Getting rid of them wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the return on value of the licence fee. Not a bit!

We've agreed that it's either the time slot or the brand name of the programme that attracts the income rather than the presenter. Getting rid of those highly paid presenters and replacing them with minimum wage presenters would save an amount that would be a significant proportion of the current children's television budget for example. It would make a massive difference

The top earning presenters get it in the neck because they are the only staff type we have any information on. We have anecdotes about well paid camera operators who refuse to operate modern equipment that is required by certain events. Given the data, we would be all over those people, possibly more so than the presenters.

Scotty #

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I would have assumed that the vast majority of the €17m a year spent on the orchestra is on wages!!

Yes, but they bring in no revenue, so it's funded entirely from the licence fee.

The big presenters bring in ad revenue, and therefor are not funded by the licence fee.

The J Stands for Jay

Scotty # wrote: »

An Post get €19.20 from each fee ffs! Yet all the whinging seems to be about how much presenters are paid.

Agreed. This is a shockingly high cost. Do An Post take an measures to ensure compliance, or do they sit back and take whatever comes their way?

Sheep Shagger

Nothing against having professional presenters and other staff, as you say that can bring in advertising revenue HOWEVER in a country the size of irealnd these salaries are out of sync.

How come Virgin Media don't pay as much? Because they are a private outfit that's why.

They should be bought back down to more realistic levels and if they think they can get more money at the BBC etc, then let them go.

In the vast majority of cases they wouldn't command such high salaries abroad.

This is not just for presenters, goes for all staff across thr organisation.

Scotty #

McGaggs wrote: »

We've agreed that it's either the time slot or the brand name of the programme that attracts the income rather than the presenter. Getting rid of those highly paid presenters and replacing them with minimum wage presenters would save an amount that would be a significant proportion nofbthe current children's television budget for example. It would make a massive difference.

I wouldn't fully agree. If Joe Duffy went to Q102 tomorrow he'd bring a large portion of listeners (and advertisers) with him. And if you got some unknow in to replace him I'm not sure the format would still work. It's a bit naïve to think the presenter adds no value.

Elmo

Scotty # wrote: »

The first ad, on the first ad break, in both the live show and the Sunday repeat, is €78,000. The second ad is €56,000. I don't know how much subsequent ads are. Promotions during the show (one for everyone in the audience!) are €10k each. Then you also have the RTE player ads for the toy show.

I'm sure I read somewhere that all in all the Toy Show is worth about €3.5m to RTE (which would actually cover the entire payroll for the TOP 10 presenters in one night).

I'm sure I read somewhere that all in all the Toy Show is worth about €3.5m to RTE (which would actually cover the entire payroll for the TOP 10 presenters budget for children's/young peoples content in one night)

I'm sure I read somewhere that all in all the Toy Show is worth about €3.5m to RTE (which would actually cover the entirety entire payroll for the TOP 10 presenters RTÉ's independent Drama and Comedy commissions in one night)

I'm sure I read somewhere that all in all the Toy Show is worth about €3.5m to RTE (which would actually cover the almost all entire payroll for the TOP 10 presenters of 2019's special events in one night).

Sorry fixed your post there.

The J Stands for Jay

Scotty # wrote: »

I wouldn't fully agree. If Joe Duffy went to Q102 tomorrow he'd bring a large portion of listeners (and advertisers) with him. And if you got some unknow in to replace him I'm not sure the format would still work. It's a bit naïve to think the presenter adds no value.

I can't imagine it's Duffy rather than the format of the program that is the draw. And then there's the people who's radios never leave radio 1.

Elmo

Scotty # wrote: »

I wouldn't fully agree. If Joe Duffy went to Q102 tomorrow he'd bring a large portion of listeners (and advertisers) with him. And if you got some unknow in to replace him I'm not sure the format would still work. It's a bit naïve to think the presenter adds no value.

Scotty how did that work out for Pat Kenny and Newstalk.

First Q102 is local to Dublin so only Dublin listers would move, second Radio 1 has a loyal audience. 4fm/classic hits would be a better fit TBH.

I am sure Pat Kenny is worth the increase in audience that Newstalk made, but that was Newstalk's plan, Pat's probably not worth as much 10 years, in terms of continue to increase audiences for the station but would most likely be worth it to retain an audience.

For Forks Sake

fritzelly wrote: »

A monkey could be hosting the Toy Show and it would still get advertising - nothing to do with the incompetent host

Now, that's an idea for this years Toy Show....

Problem being, RTE would probably then hire the monkey and give it a quarter of a million euro salary.

Elmo

Scotty # wrote: »

Yes, but they bring in no revenue, so it's funded entirely from the licence fee.

The big presenters bring in ad revenue, and therefor are not funded by the licence fee.

You have to consider Scotty that presenters should think they are entitle to vast wages just because the bring in an audience. There has to be a benchmark. RTÉ commercially are losing audience and revenue. TAM Ireland reported an increase for TV revenue in 2019, RTÉ2 lost an audience that year.

RTÉ are defending just one area of spend that should be making them a profit if they believe honestly in it, the same goes for 2FM.

You can always say that its JUST 1% of the budget there are many things in RTÉ's public service budget that is JUST 1%, for example Special Events, Children's Content and Independent Drama and Comedy and so on.

Scotty #

McGaggs wrote: »

I can't imagine it's Duffy rather than the format of the program that is the draw. And then there's the people who's radios never leave radio 1.

Yea I don't know either. I'd imagine if he were to move though he'd bring some with him, not all... just some. Maybe if he left ratings would go up? I don't know. But I do believe that presenters, especially the ones that have risen to the top of their field, add value. Obviously they do or they couldn't demand the salaries they do.

McFly85

The presenters salaries have little to do with the problems within RTE. They're a small amount of the overall budget, not paid for through the license fee and are generally cheap when it comes to that type of job(look at PKs newstalk salary).

RTEs problems lie moreso in the boardroom. Chronically bad budget management, near complete resistance to change, outdated infrastructure and poor overall content creation. I have gone streaming only over the last 2 years so the only time I've interacted with RTE would be the odd time on the website and some attempts to use the RTE player for sport. There has literally been no new content in that time that I would have missed.

IMO its in dire need of a complete shake up. They could save tons of money by doing away with the outdated TV license inspector model and trying to collect it with other utility bills(primarily the digital providers but I understand that wouldn't be everyone including myself), and anyway I think they need to look at advertising as their primary source of income. License fee should only cover the culturally essential areas(orchestra, news, Irish language programming). And then if they want to increase their ad revenue, they'll just have to make better programming. Who knows, they might even be able to sell these shows overseas to make extra revenue.

Scotty #

Elmo wrote: »

First Q102 is local to Dublin so only Dublin listers would move...

Oh it was just an example. First name that popped into my head.

Elmo

McFly85 wrote: »

The presenters salaries have little to do with the problems within RTE. They're a small amount of the overall budget, not paid for through the license fee and are generally cheap when it comes to that type of job(look at PKs newstalk salary).

Did PKs move make much of a difference to RTÉ Radio 1's audience. He remains the most paid RTÉ presenter since 2002, Newstalk only started broadcasting in 2002, and it only went national in 2006.

RT spend 5 years at 2FM following the death of GR, he was unable to make an impact on the channel, before RTÉ moved him back to Radio 1. It took them 5 years to realize that their top earner could not gain an audience on another radio station, a station he first started on!

McFly85

Elmo wrote: »

Did PKs move make much of a difference to RTÉ Radio 1's audience. He remains the most paid RTÉ presenter since 2002, Newstalk only started broadcasting in 2002, and it only went national in 2006.

RT spend 5 years at 2FM following the death of GR, he was unable to make an impact on the channel, before RTÉ moved him back to Radio 1. It took them 5 years to realize that their top earner could not gain an audience on another radio station, a station he first started on!

I think it's beside the point, really. Could RTE save money on presenters salaries while retaining ad revenue and listenership? Yes, most likely. Will that solve the issues with RTEs budget? Absolutely not. Without a complete overhaul, we could have presenters on zero salary and we'll still hear Dee complaining about lost license fee revenue and about how its terrible and RTE is amazing value etc.

Elmo

McFly85 wrote: »

I think it's beside the point, really. Could RTE save money on presenters salaries while retaining ad revenue and listenership? Yes, most likely. Will that solve the issues with RTEs budget? Absolutely not. Without a complete overhaul, we could have presenters on zero salary and we'll still hear Dee complaining about lost license fee revenue and about how its terrible and RTE is amazing value etc.

I agree. Dee and her executive board seem to think that they are providing a good service. That they have largely retained the service as it is even though there budget was cut in 2008 and that management at RTÉ have done an excellent job keeping the show on the road, and if only they could get more from the licence fee they would be better capably of keeping the show on the road along with a surplus at the end of the year. Imagine RTÉ could provide what it is currently providing but if they got 50 million extra they'd have a profit of 43million, and isn't that the most important part of RTÉ, not quality content.