Abortion ref - am I the only one who doesn't care?

JRant

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The Government of the day can propose any legislation but ultimately it's up to the individual to decide. Do you not trust women?

What a silly proposition that is. I've seen those posters with "Trust Women" on them and I can only think they didn't put a lot of thought into that slogan. It makes absolutely no sense, as any person with more than 2 brain cells to rub together should know that you would be very foolish to trust anyone just on the basis of their genitalia.

I'll be giving a hard yes come ballot day but it won't have anything to do with "trusting women". I firmly believe that a constitutional amendment has no basis interfering with the healthcare of expectant mother's. I also have great sympathy for all the parents who have to travel abroad to have a medical procedure that should be available here.

My biggest concern is that this government will drag their heels on getting workable legislation passed. I also worry about the standard of care that will be given here. Considering that thousands have to travel to get basic procedures carried out I fear adding another few thousand to waiting lists will have a terrible effect on the patients waiting, especially if there is a 12 week limit put in place. Christ it can take twice that lenght of time just to get a first consultation.

Regarding the OP, I fully understand where you are coming from as voter apathy has been slowly creeping in for a long time now. There are many in your situation that just don't care. It would be cool if you changed your mind but I would be against anyone lecturing you for feeling that way.

JeffKenna

Swanner wrote: »

Legastively speaking, the 32nd Dail has been the least productive Dail since the foundation of the state.

Actually I tell a lie, they take joint last place with the 13th Dail.

Aside from this amendment, I’m not sure people realise just how little governing we have going on right now

We are in auto pilot

Hence why apathy has crept in to this vote. I'm sick and tired of Harris using this as a hobby horse to distract us from the appalling job he's doing in Health.

PandaPoo

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Whether one gets an abortion here or a few 100km away, it doesn't really matter. Where there is a will there's a way

I bet after all the fuss the referendum gets passed and you'll still see people going to UK and elsewhere because it's cheaper or better to get one there.

I thought of that too, going abroad means you're less likely to be recognised! Either way it will be an interesting result

limnam

The only discussion I've had is about the lack of creativity in the "yes" campaign for the posters. They're really shiote.

The no campaign are fairly clever, pulling on the heart strings etc

But not many in my circle seem to care one way or another.

decky1

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

I really don't care which side wins. I'm not registered and won't be voting. I barely go on Facebook these days because I'm sick of seeing posts about abortion. In work I have people trying to tease out which side I'm on and my response of 'don't know' seems to disappoint them.

I surely can't be the only one who doesn't give a toss about the outcome?

I don't think you are, i can't say i don't care but i think it is up to the person in that situation to make up their own mind , their the one's that have to live with their choice, what kind of money has been spent on this referendum, why should some of society tell the other's what they can and can't do.:mad:

erica74

limnam wrote: »

The only discussion I've had is about the lack of creativity in the "yes" campaign for the posters. They're really shiote.

The no campaign are fairly clever, pulling on the heart strings etc

But not many in my circle seem to care one way or another.

What do you think the posters should say?

The Bishop Basher

JRant wrote: »

What a silly proposition that is. I've seen those posters with "Trust Women" on them and I can only think they didn't put a lot of thought into that slogan. It makes absolutely no sense, as any person with more than 2 brain cells to rub together should know that you would be very foolish to trust anyone just on the basis of their genitalia.

I was trying to figure out how to respond to such a ridiculous question but you did so far more eloquently and succinctly then I could.

Thank you :pac:

limnam

erica74 wrote: »

What do you think the posters should say?

A bit like the OP I don't particularly care.

I was just stating that the "no" posters make people stop and think and could potentially turn a yes into a no IMHO.

For example I'd never have thought of a babies heart beat after 20 days.

The "Yes" posters don't use any creativity to turn a no into a yes.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

erica74

limnam wrote: »

A bit like the OP I don't particularly care.

I was just stating that the "no" posters make people stop and think and could potentially turn a yes into a no IMHO.

For example I'd never have thought of a babies heart beat after 20 days.

The "Yes" posters don't use any creativity to turn a no into a yes.

A baby having a heart beat after 20 days doesn't make any difference to a woman who may need an abortion. Do you think a woman who needs an abortion isn't aware of what stage her pregnancy is at or at what stage of development her baby is at? If she wants or needs an abortion, all that matters is that she has access to safe medical care here in Ireland. Trust every woman to make the right decision for her. Repeal the 8th.

The Bishop Basher

decky1 wrote: »

why should some of society tell the other's what they can and can't do.:mad:

Generally speaking that's a fair statement but with a topic as emotive, moral and ethical as abortion is, it's never going to be that simple.

We ALL have a right to say what we believe should or shouldn't be allowed or acceptable in this state.

If you struggle with that then you have a fundamental issue with democracy.

_Dara_

Swanner wrote: »

Legastively speaking, the 32nd Dail has been the least productive Dail since the foundation of the state.

Actually I tell a lie, they take joint last place with the 13th Dail.

Aside from this amendment, I’m not sure people realise just how little governing we have going on right now

We are in auto pilot

That’s super. They’re going through an inactive period. But that could change. And you and I and everyone are cognisant of that fact. We allow it.

Johngoose

I think it’s a handy smoke screen for Fine Gael, when there are a raft of more pressing issues. The H.S.E. and housing are surely more important. Is having a referendum on abortion not implying that all other issues are sorted? I mean a return flight to a u.k. city could be sorted for €60. How about people unable to afford to rent or buy houses in the current market? Is that not a bigger issue?

limnam

erica74 wrote: »

A baby having a heart beat after 20 days doesn't make any difference to a woman who may need an abortion.

But it might to a random voter passing it by and reading it. Which was the point.

erica74 wrote: »

Do you think a woman who needs an abortion isn't aware of what stage her pregnancy is at or at what stage of development her baby is at?

What does it have to do with for example a man walking by the poster?

What has your points got to do with mine? I'm not talking about a woman needing an abortion. I'm talking about clever wording on a poster to change a voters opinion.

erica74 wrote: »

If she wants or needs an abortion, all that matters is that she has access to safe medical care here in Ireland.

I don't see what this has to do with the posters.

erica74 wrote: »

Trust every woman to make the right decision for her. Repeal the 8th.

Are you trying to canvas me on thread?

erica74

Johngoose wrote: »

I think it’s a handy smoke screen for Fine Gael, when there are a raft of more pressing issues. The H.S.E. and housing are surely more important. Is having a referendum on abortion not implying that all other issues are sorted? I mean a return flight to a u.k. city could be sorted for €60. How about people unable to afford to rent or buy houses in the current market? Is that not a bigger issue?

And what about the other associated costs??

Ash.J.Williams

Johngoose wrote: »

I think it’s a handy smoke screen for Fine Gael, when there are a raft of more pressing issues. The H.S.E. and housing are surely more important. Is having a referendum on abortion not implying that all other issues are sorted? I mean a return flight to a u.k. city could be sorted for €60. How about people unable to afford to rent or buy houses in the current market? Is that not a bigger issue?

An abortion isn't a fun weekend away

erica74

limnam wrote: »

But it might to a random voter passing it by and reading it. Which was the point.



What does it have to do with for example a man walking by the poster?

What has your points got to do with mine? I'm not talking about a woman needing an abortion. I'm talking about clever wording on a poster to change a voters opinion.



I don't see what this has to do with the posters.



Are you trying to canvas me on thread?

Are you more concerned about posters than the actual referendum?

limnam

erica74 wrote: »

Are you more concerned about posters than the actual referendum?

I'm not concerned about the referendum at all.

Isn't that the point of this thread?

Hitman3000

JRant wrote:

What a silly proposition that is. I've seen those posters with "Trust Women" on them and I can only think they didn't put a lot of thought into that slogan. It makes absolutely no sense, as any person with more than 2 brain cells to rub together should know that you would be very foolish to trust anyone just on the basis of their genitalia.

Since it only women that can get pregnant it is only relevant to a specific set of genitalia. As for trust women it is asking that you give a woman full autonomy over their own bodies. Do you assume every pregnant woman will suddenly want an abortion after legislation has been enacted assuming the 8th is appealed.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

JRant

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

An abortion isn't a fun weekend away

Just as well nobody is suggesting that then.

On a more serious note I believe we will still see a large fraction of people choose to travel to the UK even when the 8th is repealed. Anonymity and superior healthcare standards will be a mean lots will still use their services. I for one have very little faith in the HSE to deliver a product that suits the end users needs.

erica74

limnam wrote: »

I'm not concerned about the referendum at all.

Isn't that the point of this thread?

Lucky you.

How Soon Is Now

Wake me up when it's all over lads!

The Bishop Basher

_Dara_ wrote: »

That’s super. They’re going through an inactive period. But that could change. And you and I and everyone are cognisant of that fact. We allow it.

The problem is _Dara_

No matter what way i swing this i just don't trust them at all. Like not even the smallest smidgen of trust..

We don't even have a government at the moment.. FF and FG are doing the unthinkable and pretending to work together out of a thirst for power. The lefties are looming large and it's only a matter of time before we potentially have a bunch of crazy feminists running the show. Then come the millennials with all their nonsense..

Were doomed politically.

We should be taking power away from our government. Not giving them more.

Ash.J.Williams

JRant wrote: »

Just as well nobody is suggesting that then.

On a more serious note I believe we will still see a large fraction of people choose to travel to the UK even when the 8th is repealed. Anonymity and superior healthcare standards will be a mean lots will still use their services. I for one have very little faith in the HSE to deliver a product that suits the end users needs.

He kinda did

The Bishop Basher

Hitman3000 wrote: »

give a woman full autonomy over their own bodies.

Every time I hear that phrase I want to kill someone..

Not a baby obviously..

Any sjw type will do

JRant

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Since it only women that can get pregnant it is only relevant to a specific set of genitalia. As for trust women it is asking that you give a woman full autonomy over their own bodies. Do you assume every pregnant woman will suddenly want an abortion after legislation has been enacted assuming the 8th is appealed.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote so. Maybe go back and have a proper read of it again, just for the shïts and giggles.

I want all parents to be given the very best maternity healthcare we can provide. Hence the 8th has to go. This is not just an issue that solely effects women either and it is incredibly patronizing to all the men in the women's lives who support them through such a difficult time.

I read an absolutely heartbreaking blog by a father who traveled to the UK with his wife and the baby was diagnosed with a FFA. It really showed how the 8th and lack of proper maternity care here effects a whole raft of people, not just the woman. Maybe if you stop viewing it in such a gynocentric way you would see that this is an intensely complicated issue. "Trusting women" is a nothing argument used by people who can't think of a half decent point to make.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Froshtbit wrote: »

It's kind of a big deal for everybody.

Although I'll vote YES to repeal I really couldn't give a toss which side wins.

I care nothing for the debate, couldn't give a toss whether its up to 12 weeks or double that (or more).

skylight1987

I care and am thinking about it deeply and am still undecided

freshpopcorn

skylight1987 wrote: »

I care and am thinking about it deeply and am still undecided

Why are you undecided?