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Abortion ref - am I the only one who doesn't care?

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    #152
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    It's one thing to make a deliberate decision not to vote because you genuinely cannot make up your mind which way to go.
    But just deciding 'nah, not interested' is different.
    On a purely personal level, the outcome of the referendum is not going to affect me. But it will affect the society I am living in and it's important to consider the issue and try and come to a decision on which way to vote.


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    #153
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,590 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Noo wrote: »
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Iv read up and I'm still not sure what I think so iv decided against voting on this , Normally id be in the you should always cast a vote but I really can't decide so I'm going to leave it to the good people of the country and live with what they decide,
    I just hope down the road in life that I don't come into a situation where I regret it but that could be either way, 
    I think there are valid points  for both side in this argument,

    I can understand how many types of situations could arise regarding the women in your life where you regret voting no. But i cant think of any situation where you would later regret voting yes.
    Well you obviously don't have a very good imagination ,there are so many situation that could occur both way's , below is just one,
    "Girl's in a great relationship get pregnant is delighted can't wait, Boyfriend freaks out and forces her into an abortion that she wants to keep ( easier as he doesn't have to fly her to England)  
    "


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    #154
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Even if I didn't care about this issue, I would vote Yes just for the satisfaction of voting against Iona, John Waters, Declan Ganley and their whole mob of pre-Vatican II troglodytes.

    In fact that satisfaction is the only real effect of my vote - it's one in a million that it makes the slightest difference to the outcome.


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    #155
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,314 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    One of the reasons I know why people are struggling is with the twelve week limit.
    If they were voting to allow abortion up to twelve weeks. They'd do it no problem and allow fatal fetal abnormalities outside of this time limit.
    However they don't trust the government to keep the twelve week limit because of how a lot of them went from being pro=life TD's to being repeal TD's in the space of a few years and they wonder what will there views be like in a few years.


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    #156
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Its a strange one because there are thousand who have been effected by the 8th and deserve better but the thousand who will be effected by removing it will never have a voice so , its kind of lose lose in my eyes,


    maybe something to think about. maybe going with whatever your gut instinct tells you on the day could be an option? if you still feel that you can't vote then by all means don't, but my view would be not to totally rule it out.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #157
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,590 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Its a strange one because there are thousand who have been effected by the 8th and deserve better  but the thousand who will be effected by removing it will never have a voice so , its kind of lose lose  in my eyes,

    What, you think thousands of fetusses would like to protest at being aborted n Ireland instead of England?

    I suppose at least they get a trip abroad out of the 8th, it's not much but...
    Could you imagine in this world that not everyone would hold the same beliefs as yourself,


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    #158
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,314 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Faith Odd Whistle wrote: »
    On a purely personal level, the outcome of the referendum is not going to affect me. But it will affect the society I am living in and it's important to consider the issue and try and come to a decision on which way to vote.

    Yes, it's another thing that has people torn of how society will turn out. People want abortions for those in need/crises pregnancies/etc but they don't want to end up like the Canada/UK either!


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    #159
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    One of the reasons I know why people are struggling is with the twelve week limit.
    If they were voting to allow abortion up to twelve weeks. They'd do it no problem and allow fatal fetal abnormalities outside of this time limit.
    However they don't trust the government to keep the twelve week limit because of how a lot of them went from being pro=life TD's to being repeal TD's in the space of a few years and they wonder what will there views be like in a few years.

    We aren't going to go from being a country with one of the strictest, most conservative abortion laws to a free for all over night.

    Its taken 35 years for the government to even address this, there is currently no public appetite for a longer limit than the 12 week recommendation, so I don't see why a politician would lobby to increase that - short of wanting to commit career suicide.

    91% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester, even in countries with extremely liberal laws. Any that occur later are usually for heartbreaking reasons such as FFA or threat to the health of the mother.

    I have faith in women that they aren't just going to get sick of the heartburn when they're 7 months pregnant and feck off for a lunch time abortion because she can't be arsed any more - that's the narrative that the anti-choicers are pushing.
    I'd love to know who these phantom women are because despite knowing women from a wide range of ages, backgrounds, cultures etc. I don't know a single one who I think would do that.


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    #160
    Martina1991
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    taserfrank wrote:
    I won't be bothered voting- I couldn't give a damn about this referendum, even though it would have been funny to see the meltdown of the left if they lost!
    You think it's funny for Irish women to suffer and have their health put at risk?

    All you seem to post about is the referendum yet you're apparently not bothered.


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    #161
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    One of the reasons I know why people are struggling is with the twelve week limit.
    If they were voting to allow abortion up to twelve weeks. They'd do it no problem and allow fatal fetal abnormalities outside of this time limit.
    However they don't trust the government to keep the twelve week limit because of how a lot of them went from being pro=life TD's to being repeal TD's in the space of a few years and they wonder what will there views be like in a few years.

    Ireland is still conservative in many ways. It will be a long, long time before we see euthanasia in this country, if we ever do, for example.

    Ireland is not going to go from no abortion to late term abortions. If late term abortions were legislated for, I’d expect the government that oversaw it to be swiftly booted at the next general election.

    This “but who knows what the limits will be” scaremongering gets on my nerves, to be honest. Use your heads!


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    #162
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,314 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    We aren't going to go from being a country with one of the strictest, most conservative abortion laws to a free for all over night.

    Its taken 35 years for the government to even address this, there is currently no public appetite for a longer limit than the 12 week recommendation, so I don't see why a politician would lobby to increase that - short of wanting to commit career suicide.

    91% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester, even in countries with extremely liberal laws. Any that occur later are usually for heartbreaking reasons such as FFA or threat to the health of the mother.

    I have faith in women that they aren't just going to get sick of the heartburn when they're 7 months pregnant and feck off for a lunch time abortion because she can't be arsed any more - that's the narrative that the anti-choicers are pushing.
    I'd love to know who these phantom women are because despite knowing women from a wide range of ages, backgrounds, cultures etc. I don't know a single one who I think would do that.

    It's an issue I've seen people have and there's not much I can do about that if the twelve week limit was in the constitution they'd gladly support it without any issue. They were pro=choice before Leo, the two Simon's, Michael but it's something at the back of their minds that is causing them issues!


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    #163
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    It's an issue I've seen people have and there's not much I can do about that if the twelve week limit was in the constitution they'd gladly support it without any issue. They were pro=choice before Leo, the two Simon's, Michael but it's something at the back of their minds that is causing them issues!

    Anyone who cites worries about the limits as a reason to vote no - I’d have trouble believing that they were ever thinking of voting yes. I’d question their motives tbh. Trying to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of others, perhaps?


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    #164
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,590 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    One of the reasons I know why people are struggling is with the twelve week limit.
    If they were voting to allow abortion up to twelve weeks. They'd do it no problem and allow fatal fetal abnormalities outside of this time limit.
    However they don't trust the government to keep the twelve week limit because of how a lot of them went from being pro=life TD's to being repeal TD's in the space of a few years and they wonder what will there views be like in a few years.

    Ireland is still conservative in many ways. It will be a long, long time before we see euthanasia in this country, if we ever do, for example.

    Ireland is not going to go from no abortion to late term abortions. If late term abortions were legislated for, I’d expect the government that oversaw it to be swiftly booted at the next general election.

    This “but who knows what the limits will be” scaremongering gets on my nerves, to be honest. Use your heads!
    I lived for a brief few year in a housing estate in northern England, and abortion was like treated a headache tablet to people, Its just put a really bad taste in the mouth ,
    I
    'd imagine most modern  people do agree with it in certain case's but people worry about it becoming to frequent ,
    Again I know its a women's choice but id imagine its where most the no vote comes from .,
    I'm not on either side as I have my own reason to see the good and bad in both ,


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    #165
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    Ireland is still conservative in many ways. It will be a long, long time before we see euthanasia in this country, if we ever do, for example.

    I wish this was about euthanasia.. It affects far more people..

    It's something I intend to actively campaign for at some point..

    Every poll i've ever seen shows overwhelming support for it but I agree that we won't see it for decades if at all.

    The fact that the government won't tackle something which so many people want shows a serious disconnect between us and them..

    I wouldn't trust them to wipe my arse to be honest and I don't trust them on this issue which is a problem..


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    #166
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Swanner wrote: »
    I wish this was about euthanasia.. It affects far more people..

    It's something I intend to actively campaign for at some point..

    Every poll i've ever seen shows overwhelming support for it but I agree that we won't see it for decades if at all.

    The fact that the government won't tackle something which so many people want shows a serious disconnect between us and them..

    I wouldn't trust them to wipe my arse to be honest and I don't trust them on this issue which is a problem..

    Euthanasia is illegal almost everywhere. The Irish government aren’t untrustworthy because they won’t tackle it. It’s very much the status quo.


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    #167
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    At least you have the option to not vote. These women don't have a choice to get an abortion.

    I think it's pretty childish to not vote. You don't have to care about it to vote, it's got nothing to do with social media either. I'm not engaging in any social media or conversation at work about it.

    I'll be there to vote Yes. It's fine if people disagree with abortion but the fact of the matter is this vote is to do with giving women choice.



    You're a great addition to our society...

    You should concern yourself with your own vote, not anybody else's, or lack of. Your jurisdiction ends with your own vote.

    That's not a partisan comment either as I'm voting Yes. That's my personal choice and I'm not hectoring anybody else about their choice.


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    #168
    The One Doctor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Couldn’t give a sh1t. Housing and health far more important. Probably will vote yes if I can bother my arse to get out there.

    Yup, me too.


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    #169
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    At least you have the option to not vote. These women don't have a choice to get an abortion.

    I think it's pretty childish to not vote. You don't have to care about it to vote, it's got nothing to do with social media either. I'm not engaging in any social media or conversation at work about it.

    I'll be there to vote Yes. It's fine if people disagree with abortion but the fact of the matter is this vote is to do with giving women choice.



    You're a great addition to our society...

    You should concern yourself with your own vote, not anybody else's, or lack of. Your jurisdiction ends with your own vote.

    That's not a partisan comment either as I'm voting Yes. That's my personal choice and I'm not hectoring anybody else about their choice even if I don't personally agree with pro lifers or people that won't exercise the vote in this case.


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    #170
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Hitman3000 wrote: »

    As an aside are you able to make a point without the snide attack?


    Normally yes. But I found it reasonably easy to make an exception for you in the light of your crass response.


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    #171
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    You should concern yourself with your own vote, not anybody else's, or lack of. Your jurisdiction ends with your own vote.

    That's not a partisan comment either as I'm voting Yes. That's my personal choice and I'm not hectoring anybody else about their choice even if I don't personally agree with pro lifers or people that won't won't exercise the vote in this case.

    Hectoring is not good but I have no problem with people encouraging others to vote. Encouraging and hectoring are not mutually inclusive.


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    #172
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    Hectoring is not good but I have no problem with people encouraging others to vote. Encouraging and hectoring are not mutually inclusive.

    True.

    Although Im glad in my life so far that any encouragement I've experienced didn't take the form of being told I'm childish and a 'great addition to society'. :)


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    #173
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Could you imagine in this world that not everyone would hold the same beliefs as yourself,

    Indeed, they believe in the oppressive Ireland of the 1930s and I don't.

    That's why I like to kick them right in the ballot box where it hurts.


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    #174
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    Euthanasia is illegal almost everywhere. The Irish government aren’t untrustworthy because they won’t tackle it. It’s very much the status quo.

    They were delighted to be the first with a smoking ban or at least to claim it..

    We were all delighted to be the first to recognise gay marriage, or at least to claim it..

    Someone has to make the first move on euthanasia.. (or second)..

    Anyway, it's a separate topic for another day..


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    #175
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Swanner wrote: »
    They were delighted to be the first with a smoking ban or at least to claim it..

    We were all delighted to be the first to recognise gay marriage, or at least to claim it..

    Someone has to make the first move on euthanasia.. (or

    None of this makes them untrustworthy. Ireland is not going to from no abortion to a free-for-all. And if they do, the electorate will let the government know their displeasure and the free-for-all will end. It’s truly frustrating to witness people planting doubts in the minds of others about things that won’t come to pass.


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    #176
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    None of this makes them untrustworthy. Ireland is not going to from no abortion to a free-for-all. And if they do, the electorate will let the government know their displeasure and the free-for-all will end. It’s truly frustrating to witness people planting doubts in the minds of others about things that won’t come to pass.

    You don’t know that though.. you’re making assumptions about the future that you can’t possibly make with any reasonable certainty..

    I still don’t know how I’m going to vote, I’m very undecided..

    But I do know that I don’t trust this government in any way shape or form or on any level to make decisions in my best interest or the best interest of it’s citizens.

    I’ve formed that opinion based solely on watching them screw us over time and time again for the last 40 years or so and I don’t see any reason why they would suddenly became trustworthy or competent now.

    I see a loony lefty hardcore with this dangerous politically correct ideology on the rise and growing rapidly to the point that I could see them ruling us in 20 years or so and that’s a terrifying prospect.

    Unfortunately that presents a huge problem for me and it’s one the reasons I will consider voting against.

    It might be frustrating for you but that’s how I feel and it’s taken decades of being shafted by sucessive governments for me to get to that point.

    Fool me once and all that..


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    #177
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Swanner wrote:
    You don’t know that though.. you’re making assumptions about the future that you can’t possibly make with any reasonable certainty..

    To be fair, the government can also do things like reduce the age of consent to 5 without a referendum. They aren't going to do something that puts their position at risk.
    Swanner wrote:
    I see a loony lefty hardcore with this dangerous politically correct ideology on the rise and growing rapidly to the point that I could see them ruling us in 20 years or so and that’s a terrifying prospect.

    Abortion has been legal in many countries for longer than 20 years, without major issues.


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    #178
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Swanner wrote: »
    But I do know that I don’t trust this government in any way shape or form or on any level to make decisions in my best interest or the best interest of it’s citizens.

    The government does that all the time, every day. As citizens, we give the elected government that power. You, me, everyone. There are no referenda on legislation. And thank god for that.


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    #179
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,194 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Whether one gets an abortion here or a few 100km away, it doesn't really matter. Where there is a will there's a way

    I bet after all the fuss the referendum gets passed and you'll still see people going to UK and elsewhere because it's cheaper or better to get one there.


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    #180
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    The government does that all the time, every day. As citizens, we give the elected government that power. You, me, everyone. There are no referenda on legislation. And thank god for that.

    Legastively speaking, the 32nd Dail has been the least productive Dail since the foundation of the state.

    Actually I tell a lie, they take joint last place with the 13th Dail.

    Aside from this amendment, I’m not sure people realise just how little governing we have going on right now

    We are in auto pilot


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    #181
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Swanner wrote:
    It might be frustrating for you but that’s how I feel and it’s taken decades of being shafted by sucessive governments for me to get to that point.


    The Government of the day can propose any legislation but ultimately it's up to the individual to decide. Do you not trust women?


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