8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

CaffeineLad

What someone does with their own body is not for me to prevent or judge upon, I will be voting yes

Hannibal_Smith

HonestKevin wrote: »

So if a woman gets pregnant by a black man and she decides she doesn't want a black baby, would you support her in her choice to have an abortion solely based on the color of the babys skin?

Because that's the proposed legislation says. A woman can have an abortion for ANY reason up to 12 weeks. Apparently racism is a "choice" now. That's what is so devastating about what is being proposed. It is a complete breakdown of human rights. It facilitates discrimination against unborn children based on the color of their skin, or based on how they were conceived (ie conceived through rape or incest).

Nice to know that 2018 Ireland is proposing to allow for unborn babies to be discriminated against based on the color of their skin or how they were conceived. This is a real step forward.

If a woman does not wish to continue a pregnancy, I don't need or want to know her reasons for choosing to have an abortion.

You are the one who brought up the colour of a child's skin and then you propose that that's the basis of the pro choice campaign.

I think it's a bit worrying that you would consider the colour of a child's skin on a par with a child conceived through rape or incest. I've never come across such racism and am surprised it exists.

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CaffeineLad

HonestKevin wrote: »

So if a woman gets pregnant by a black man and she decides she doesn't want a black baby, would you support her in her choice to have an abortion solely based on the color of the babys skin?

Because that's the proposed legislation says. A woman can have an abortion for ANY reason up to 12 weeks. Apparently racism is a "choice" now. That's what is so devastating about what is being proposed. It is a complete breakdown of human rights. It facilitates discrimination against unborn children based on the color of their skin, or based on how they were conceived (ie conceived through rape or incest).

Nice to know that 2018 Ireland is proposing to allow for unborn babies to be discriminated against based on the color of their skin or how they were conceived. This is a real step forward.

wow... just wow

HonestKevin

kylith wrote: »

For the second time of asking, Kevin: do you think that it acceptable for a woman who is pregnant through rape to be forced to continue with the pregnancy against her will?

No its not acceptable. But neither is killing the unborn baby who is innocent. Our government should be supporting tougher laws against rapists. What they are proposing will not deter rapists any bit. If anything abortion would help rapists, because if the woman has an abortion, the rapist gets to avoid having to pay child support. There's little doubt that rapists will be voting yes in the upcoming referendum.

We need tougher laws against rapists. We shouldn't judge unborn children based on what they fathers did. That's what 1950's Ireland did.

Rjd2

January wrote: »

lol

https://www.facebook.com/abortionrightscampaign/videos/1224728841006221/

Don't understand why this keeps getting posted. Its been established its been taken out of context numerous times and was years ago.

I dunno maybe "pro lifers" feel sex workers one of the most discriminated and vulnerable groups in society don't deserve the same protections as other women in the country? Cruel if so.

_Dara_

HonestKevin wrote: »

No its not acceptable. But neither is killing the unborn baby who is innocent. Our government should be supporting tougher laws against rapists. What they are proposing will not deter rapists any bit. If anything abortion would help rapists, because if the woman has an abortion, the rapist gets to avoid having to pay child support. There's little doubt that rapists will be voting yes in the upcoming referendum.

We need tougher laws against rapists. We shouldn't judge unborn children based on what they fathers did. That's what 1950's Ireland did.

Keep going. This is gold.

amcalester

HonestKevin wrote: »

No its not acceptable. But neither is killing the unborn baby who is innocent. Our government should be supporting tougher laws against rapists. What they are proposing will not deter rapists any bit. If anything abortion would help rapists, because if the woman has an abortion, the rapist gets to avoid having to pay child support. There's little doubt that rapists will be voting yes in the upcoming referendum.

We need tougher laws against rapists. We shouldn't judge unborn children based on what they fathers did. That's what 1950's Ireland did.

There’s a few Rapists 4 Yes posters out my way alright.

robarmstrong

HonestKevin wrote: »

No its not acceptable. But neither is killing the unborn baby who is innocent. Our government should be supporting tougher laws against rapists. What they are proposing will not deter rapists any bit. If anything abortion would help rapists, because if the woman has an abortion, the rapist gets to avoid having to pay child support. There's little doubt that rapists will be voting yes in the upcoming referendum.

We need tougher laws against rapists. We shouldn't judge unborn children based on what they fathers did. That's what 1950's Ireland did.

This is just, wow.

Women should not be forced to carry a rapist's baby full stop, she should be allowed the opportunity to seek out an abortion.

January

January wrote: »

lol

https://www.facebook.com/abortionrightscampaign/videos/1224728841006221/

Pffft, it's not nearly as funny with context

CaffeineLad

tougher laws for rapists?
a woman gets 14 years for an abortion and a rapist can receive a suspended sentence.
Repeal and give the 14 years for the rapist

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gctest50

_Dara_ wrote: »

Keep going. This is gold.

ssssshh - we have infiltrated the No side - agent Kevin there is doing a sterling job

CaffeineLad

CaffeineLad wrote: »

What someone does with their own body is not for me to prevent or judge upon, I will be voting yes

Therein lies the debate. Some people don't think its their own body.

nozzferrahhtoo

Mousewar wrote: »

Yes, I have humanised a human. That is my position.

The problem is you are acting like "Human" is one word that means one thing across all contexts. It is not. Perhaps that is OUR failing as a species that we have one word for a diverse group of concepts.

I agree it is "Human" in taxonomy. You will get no argument from me here.

But you have not validated (not personal, NO ONE has) the move of making ethics and morality a taxonomy point. It is a philosophy point based on personhood not biology.

So What you are doing effectively is leaping from one meaning of "Human" to another and acting like it is a valid move. And in doing so humanizing something before it's due.

And as you are voting yes, I am not making this personal against you. I am debating against a point the anti choice lobby would use, not against you or yours personally.

HonestKevin

If a woman gets pregnant by a black man and she decides she doesn't want a black baby, would you support her in her choice to have an abortion solely based on the color of the babys skin? Richard Nixon did:

“There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. When you have a black and a white”

Richard Nixon

That's what the proposed legislation allows. What a step forward Ireland is taking.

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AtomicHorror

HonestKevin wrote: »

If a woman gets pregnant by a black man and she decides she doesn't want a black baby, would you support her in her choice to have an abortion solely based on the color of the babys skin? Richard Nixon did:

“There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. When you have a black and a white”

Richard Nixon

That's what the proposed legislation allows. What a step forward Ireland is taking.

What do you mean by "support her in her choice"? Be specific.

HonestKevin

AtomicHorror wrote: »

What do you mean by "support her in her choice"? Be specific.

Trust women. No questions asked.

HonestKevin

HonestKevin wrote: »

No its not acceptable. But neither is killing the unborn baby who is innocent. Our government should be supporting tougher laws against rapists. What they are proposing will not deter rapists any bit. If anything abortion would help rapists, because if the woman has an abortion, the rapist gets to avoid having to pay child support. There's little doubt that rapists will be voting yes in the upcoming referendum.

We need tougher laws against rapists. We shouldn't judge unborn children based on what they fathers did. That's what 1950's Ireland did.

I've heard it all. You're honest Kevin, I'll give you that much.

BabysCoffee

HonestKevin wrote: »

If a woman gets pregnant by a black man and she decides she doesn't want a black baby, would you support her in her choice to have an abortion solely based on the color of the babys skin? Richard Nixon did:

“There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. When you have a black and a white”

Richard Nixon

That's what the proposed legislation allows. What a step forward Ireland is taking.

Kevin have you spoken to any of the women in your life about your views?
Your mother, your wife, your daughters, your sisters, your friends all deserve to be allowed control over their own bodies.

HonestKevin

So in 2018 Ireland, we're proposing that a woman can walk into a GP and say she doesn't want a black baby and she should be given an abortion pill?

Of course she doesn't have to give a reason, but she can tell the doctor that's why she wants the abortion and the doctor has to facilitate her because the legislation allows for abortion up to 12 weeks for ANY reason.

_Dara_

HonestKevin wrote: »

If a woman gets pregnant by a black man and she decides she doesn't want a black baby, would you support her in her choice to have an abortion solely based on the color of the babys skin? Richard Nixon did:

“There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. When you have a black and a white”

Richard Nixon

That's what the proposed legislation allows. What a step forward Ireland is taking.

That’s right... keep mashing the keyboard...

SusieBlue

HonestKevin wrote: »

If a woman gets pregnant by a black man and she decides she doesn't want a black baby, would you support her in her choice to have an abortion solely based on the color of the babys skin? Richard Nixon did:

“There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. When you have a black and a white”

Richard Nixon

That's what the proposed legislation allows. What a step forward Ireland is taking.

Why would she be having sex with a black man if she was racist? What kind of imbeciles do you take women to be?

Do you even think this drivel through before posting it?

gmisk

HonestKevin wrote: »

What they are proposing will not deter rapists any bit. If anything abortion would help rapists, because if the woman has an abortion, the rapist gets to avoid having to pay child support. There's little doubt that rapists will be voting yes in the upcoming referendum.

You have only joined and all your posts are utterly bizarre!
Maybe read back some of this absolutely insane clap trap you have put up?

Mr. CooL ICE

HonestKevin wrote: »

So in 2018 Ireland, we're proposing that a woman can walk into a GP and say she doesn't want a black baby and she should be given an abortion pill?

Of course she doesn't have to give a reason, but she can tell the doctor that's why she wants the abortion and the doctor has to facilitate her because the legislation allows for abortion up to 12 weeks for ANY reason.

Mod: HonestKevin, I recommend you read this article on what a straw man is.

By saying pro-repeal supporters are for abortions based on skin colour and thinking less of children conceived through rape/incest, you are creating straw man arguments. Stop it now. You are derailing the thread.

Everyone else, don't reply to his straw man arguments. Just report the posts and move on.

Zubeneschamali

HonestKevin wrote: »

A woman can have an abortion for ANY reason up to 12 weeks.

Yes we know.

Your caps Lock key is on the blink, there, Kevin.

erica74

HonestKevin I genuinely think you need medical attention.

optogirl

HonestKevin wrote: »

So in 2018 Ireland, we're proposing that a woman can walk into a GP and say she doesn't want a black baby and she should be given an abortion pill?

Of course she doesn't have to give a reason, but she can tell the doctor that's why she wants the abortion and the doctor has to facilitate her because the legislation allows for abortion up to 12 weeks for ANY reason.

Yes

RobertKK

This from the opening post:

Q: If it is repealed, can a doctor deny a woman an abortion?
A: Absolutely. The doctor will have the right to conscientiously object to the procedure; she will then have to be referred to other doctors.

But a doctor who objects to providing abortion will still have to be complicit in abortion by sending the woman to a doctor who will perform the abortion.
Which doctors who oppose abortion have said is an issue.
This is what doctors against repeal have said. They really aren't being allowed to conscientiously object as they still have to be complicit with the abortion that happens.