should alcohol be banned on Intercity rail journeys?

Spanish Eyes

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh FGS would ya just stop with the "your a Troll" and "cannot make up my mind if you are trolling" stereotyping just because I am trying to have a decent conversation on here and trying to get others views on a subject that I think is worth discussing - I already said i know it will sound a bit OTT and not very popular maybe with some , but I am not trolling.

Now, can we get back to discussing and shelve the name calling and assumptions please?

Open forum, you have to be able to accept other views whether personal or not really!

Anyway have you anything to say about IR's failure to have any supervision on board? That would be a good start if people, not necessarily drinkers become obnoxious. Thanks.

Pretzill

Last year I was on a mainline train (wasn't in the best of form - heading home Friday evening)
Some eegit out of his head got on, he was shouting and verbally abusing passengers. I was sitting at the back of a long carriage - picked up the mobile phone rang the guards barracks at the next station - and he was taken off the train - I don't even think any other passengers noticed me doing it but the thought of listening to him for three hours was too much for me.

There should be security on these trains.

Spanish Eyes

Pretzill wrote: »

Last year I was on a mainline train (wasn't in the best of form - heading home Friday evening)
Some eegit out of his head got on, he was shouting and verbally abusing passengers. I was sitting at the back of a long carriage - picked up the mobile phone rang the guards barracks at the next station - and he was taken off the train - I don't even think any other passengers noticed me doing it but the thought of listening to him for three hours was too much for me.

There should be security on these trains.

There should be an IR person or two on these trains. I wonder why there isn't.

Everything else is outsourced, ie the food and drink element, so they cannot or will not intervene if something goes wrong.

Fair dues to you for reporting this. Did you find the number of the Garda Station online? I am absolutely amazed that the Garda would find the time to do this really, and that is no reflection on you at all. But a good outcome.

Passengers should not have to do this though.

Lord Glentoran

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh FGS would ya just stop with the "your a Troll" and "cannot make up my mind if you are trolling" stereotyping just because I am trying to have a decent conversation on here and trying to get others views on a subject that I think is worth discussing - I already said i know it will sound a bit OTT and not very popular maybe with some , but I am not trolling.

Now, can we get back to discussing and shelve the name calling and assumptions please?

We'll have a buidéal Óraiste, go raibh míle mhaith agat. *purses lips, zips up cardigan*

Pretzill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Did you find the number of the Garda Station online? I am absolutely amazed that the Garda would find the time to do this really, and that is no reflection on you at all. But a good outcome.

Passengers should not have to do this though.

No I rang 999 and asked for the gardai from the next town on the line (as I knew they had a barracks there) - I would absolutely expect the guards to do something put it this way if an abusive drunk was throwing his weight around a public place elsewhere it's only the guards who will deal with it.

Fire1985

I was on the 18:05 Connolly to Longford on Friday and 2 classy parents were drinking cans and then handing them to their 10 year old son to put in the bin. Packed train and it just looked terrible. Poor kid

Spanish Eyes

Pretzill wrote: »

No I rang 999 and asked for the gardai from the next town on the line (as I knew they had a barracks there) - I would absolutely expect the guards to do something put it this way if an abusive drunk was throwing his weight around a public place elsewhere it's only the guards who will deal with it.

Well done.

But there is a difference between being stuck on a train with no escape available and being in a public space where you can leave, isn't there?

Pretzill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well done.

But there is a difference between being stuck on a train with no escape available and being in a public space where you can leave, isn't there?

Exactly. It's worse to be stuck when someone is kicking off - this particular train was packed but still people were leaving the carriage to avoid the abuse. I had a feeling someone was going to be assaulted - I suppose I wasn't in the humour that particular evening another day I might have moved up the carriages too.

Andy From Sligo

yes, on one hand it great idea to have security member on all intercity trains, reckon it would have to be a private security firm supplying them though, cannot see IR adding their own staff as security. So then we have the issue of fares going up to employ these 'security guards'

OK another issue is that wherever bouncer type (and these security types employed will have to have some girth and muscles on them, not weedy type) security people are involved (such as doormen on clubs/pubs) then as the drunk/rowdy passenger is being accosted or detained there is room for more shout outs of swearing and abuse and a few punches and kicks thrown maybe from the disgruntled and drunk passenger - so lest us not forgot that these carriages are shared with families and young children who could be very traumitised (maybe more traumatised than just watching a drunk rolling around, vomititing / swearing/wetting themselves / passed out) by seeing an an atercation with a security guard trying to accost a drunk person and blood involved and 'lots' of swearing and violence.

So this is a risk - if there was a zero tollerence attitude and it was enforced properly and Irish Rail had signs up at stations and on trains sayng "Irish rail do not tolerate any drunken behavior on its trains and we prosecute and take actions in all circumstances" (and mean it , and enforce it) - then there we be no margins for error. everyone will know where they stand and there will be no ignorance when the person is caught and charged with being drunk in a public area can be told "you have already been warned that it is ilegal to be drunk on public transport" and then everyone will know where they stand and familes (welland other passengers really) can be assure when they travel on a train it will be a pleasant experience with no chance of any altercations between intoxicated/inebriated people and passengers/members of the public (who lets face it when they are travelling on a train they are under the care of Irish Rail which should look after the care of its passengers at all times)

I Am The Law

No.

Andy From Sligo

Pretzill wrote: »

Exactly. It's worse to be stuck when someone is kicking off - this particular train was packed but still people were leaving the carriage to avoid the abuse. I had a feeling someone was going to be assaulted - I suppose I wasn't in the humour that particular evening another day I might have moved up the carriages too.

shouldnt have to though really eh? - you pay your ticket , you deserve not to get up and move carriages , just because a few people cannot travel a few hours on a journey without getting bladdered

MGWR

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh FGS would ya just stop with the "your (sic) a Troll" and "cannot make up my mind if you are trolling" stereotyping just because I am trying to have a decent conversation on here and trying to get others views on a subject that I think is worth discussing - I already said i know it will sound a bit OTT and not very popular maybe with some, but I am not trolling.

Now, can we get back to discussing and shelve the name calling and assumptions please?

This type of post signals a move from concern trolling (the original post) to the more typical ad hominem trolling. It will only serve to confirm the suspicions of those who think the OP is a troll post.

Andy From Sligo

MGWR wrote: »

This type of post signals a move from concern trolling (the original post) to the more typical ad hominem trolling. It will only serve to confirm the suspicions of those who think the OP is a troll post.

oh blimey - you think that if thats what you want , with people like you that assume like that its futile to try and convince otherwise...

Heres Johnny

No, but annoying other passengers by being loud and obnoxious should be.

Can't be a nanny state because of some idiots. Hen parties should just be banned from everywhere anyway.

Pretzill

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

shouldnt have to though really eh? - you pay your ticket , you deserve not to get up and move carriages , just because a few people cannot travel a few hours on a journey without getting bladdered

The thing is Andy from Sligo this person got on at the first stop already drunk/drugged/out of his head. It wasn't as though he was getting drunk along the journey. He was abusive to begin with.

Many years ago a long train journey was a day out - complete with a packed lunch or the choice of hot food and alcohol too on board. Good humoured, relaxed travel with chatter and laughter. Now trains even intercity ones are busy commuters - people live far from work and they can be tense, packed, sweaty places. Uncomfortable with overpriced trolley service and no IR staff to be seen -

We never get what we pay for when it comes to our train service in my opinion. I will nearly always drive now and I used to love the train.

Andy From Sligo

Pretzill wrote: »

The thing is Andy from Sligo this person got on at the first stop already drunk/drugged/out of his head. It wasn't as though he was getting drunk along the journey. He was abusive to begin with.

Many years ago a long train journey was a day out - complete with a packed lunch or the choice of hot food and alcohol too on board. Good humoured, relaxed travel with chatter and laughter. Now trains even intercity ones are busy commuters - people live far from work and they can be tense, packed, sweaty places. Uncomfortable with overpriced trolley service and no IR staff to be seen -

We never get what we pay for when it comes to our train service in my opinion. I will nearly always drive now and I used to love the train.

I am glad I dont use the trains regurlary now these days, just once in a while now. - I have never took the bus/bus eareann personally ever, I dont know how I would be on one now , maybe they are better. But years ago when i took a coach/bus in the UK I used to get awful travel sick with them and a phobia because they didnt have a toilet on board and had to wait for the next 'drivers break' to go to the loo. - as I say the coaches use to make me travel sick, but I never used to feel travel sick on the trains, even long journeys. Never did find out why that was, but much preferred to travel by train.

In the UK I used to get 'off peak return' for a day trip. It meant you couldnt travel until after 9.30am and then couldnt travel around 6pm in the evening but it was cheaper.

MGWR

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh blimey - you think that if thats (sic) what you want , with people like you that assume like that its futile to try and convince otherwise...

Repeat of ad hominem is unlikely to convince me otherwise. And since I'm not the one presenting the evidence, I'm not guilty of confirmation bias.

Caveats of being "over the top" is a tacit admission to concern trolling. Never mind conflating two distinct situations, i.e. the sales of alcoholic beverages on an intercity train and the possible danger of aggressive drunks on an intercity train.

cobzzq

I have one word YES.............NO DRUNKS

Andy From Sligo

just so we are straight I am going to refrain on this thread of answering back posts on this thread about me personally and the accusations of trolling and just continue to discuss the main issue of the thread here.

But feel free if you wish to continue to attack me (are you trying to get a rise out of me?) - but you understand if I dont reply to your posts any more ...

Del.Monte

In answer to the OP, drunk people/people with slabs of beer etc. should not be allowed board a train but given automated ticket barriers and the virtual disappearance of CIE staff....The only answer is to staff the trains properly but now that's not going to happen. The current nonsense about getting platform staff out of the stations and onto the trains is just that - nonsense. It is designed to prompt surplus staff to take redundancy.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

afatbollix

They should bring back the smoking carriages and that was where all the feckactery went.

Jamie2k9

They have banned it on Waterford services Sundays over 10 years ago, Friday ban on afternoon services was brought in 3 years ago. They send security on most of the trains who are pretty relaxed. It has helped a lot and to be honest they could drop security from one or two services now.

Ban was also extended to 13.00 ex Galway Sundays.

You usually get a warning by them first and it's been a long time since guards were required to remove people.

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

Without the high margin, long shelf life sales of booze I'd expect the trolley services to vanish entirely.

Sales are pretty low from experience, the big trouble makers bring their own usually.

Now a ban on tea and coffee, well you may have a point!

Andy From Sligo

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Sales are pretty low from experience, the big trouble makers bring their own usually....

yeah I would have thought that too ... but then i might have been generalising ...

Jamie2k9

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yeah I would have thought that too ... but then i might have been generalising ...

No need to be politically correct here!!

On the complete ban, I don't think so. Security should travel on problem services and deal with issues. Staff at stations should be paying more attention to who is boarding a train. Wouldn't be unusual from them to be completely useless, you get more interaction with IT than people in Irish Rail.

peejay1986

I'm not a frequent rail traveler but I was when living in the UK and this is something I really don't like. I often had to get late trains home from Manchester and Liverpool and there was no staff on the train during the journeys. It was often very intimidating being around group of people who've had a few drinks - especially when you're on your own.

I agree with the person who suggested banning all carry-on alcohol from being consumed. If you really want a drink you can buy it from the trolley service.

I'm not sure if they do it here but the Virgin trains in the UK have 'quiet' carriages on their routes, similar to the rail services in France. It's a bit of an extreme as you can't even answer a phone call, but it's a nice relief if all you want to do is relax on a journey.

marieholmfan

Yes alcohol has no place on buses or trains. Any consumption of alcohol, smoking, drug consumption etc. should result in arrest and prosecution.

dr.fuzzenstein

MGWR wrote: »

Repeat of ad hominem is unlikely to convince me otherwise. And since I'm not the one presenting the evidence, I'm not guilty of confirmation bias.

Caveats of being "over the top" is a tacit admission to concern trolling. Never mind conflating two distinct situations, i.e. the sales of alcoholic beverages on an intercity train and the possible danger of aggressive drunks on an intercity train.

Oooooh, somebody knows big, fancy words.
How about arguing with facts rather than just calling someone you don't agree with a troll.

monument

MGWR wrote: »

The former, no. The latter, yes; and I thought it was already banned and just a matter of enforcement?It takes more than "a few cans" to get someone drunk. A decent-sized bottle of spirit would do it faster. You contradict yourself: people in a stupor (which means to be near unconsciousness) are not awake enough to be aggressive drunks, but are certainly at risk of missing their station(s). And believe it or not, there are loads of people who consume alcohol in moderation and handle themselves quite well once off the train, so there is no reason to spoil their journey, because aggressive drunks would merely get their fix before boarding if such a ban were in effect.

Are you advocating for Shariah-style prohibition on the train, since you're deliberately conflating drinking with drunkenness and proposing a nanny-state-type solution? If this is just a troll post, so what if I bit the bait.

You’re not allowed to call people trolls so please cut it out — just like you can drink without getting drunk, you can criticise other poster’s points without breaking the rules.

— moderator