should alcohol be banned on Intercity rail journeys?

Andy From Sligo

Does anyone think the same as me that alcohol should be banned being brought onto Intercity Train services? and also intoxicated passengers forbidden on trains?

I dont know exactly how it could work though at the finer points. Maybe a search before people even get on the train and all cans etc confiscated or be made to put in luggage and the luggage/cases put into special luggage carriage on the train where passengers can collect when they get off?

I know a certain amount of people will find this shocking and too over the top but a blind eye also I think cannot be given to people taking a few cans and spirits on the trains and drinking themselves into a stupor on their journeys and making it intimidating and a risk to other passengers.

am intrigued to think of what others think about it.

Atlantic Dawn

If they are not singing and talking sheite loudly or bothering other passengers I see no problem.

Andy From Sligo

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If they are not singing and talking sheite loudly or bothering other passengers I see no problem.

that is part of the problem - very rarely would you see a 'quiet drunk' .. or if you do they are nearly falling over trying to get up out of a seat to walk down the carriage - i don't think that's an exaggeration is it?

also a couple of more points:

Should minors on the train for a day out see/witness inebriated people in this state (of course they can get to see inebriated parents/family and other people on the streets and at wakes and at parties drunk too? but that's an issue maybe for another day)

I thought I read somewhere the number of Guards/drivers being assaulted on the increase (either verbally or physically) and wonder how much of this could be attributed to drunk passengers on the train.

Bredabe

A million times yes! if it was one quite drink I would be ok with it.
In my vast experience, it's a few 6 packs if not a few on board already, falling all around the place, drunk "humour", fight-picking, the endless feeling loudness, flying missiles.

Inability to move safely around, dirty toilets and or ppl passed out in them. Then the almost inevitable rows over boy/girlfriends and smoking(at best tobacco) and LOUD.

THE FIELDS OF ATHENRY ON EVERY SINGLE ROUTE, INCLUDING THE ENTERPRISE.

Did I mention the loudness?

Cookie_Monster

nope, should be allowed. All you need is a staffed train where those staff are actually capable and empowered to take action against travellers who take the piss with it (or anything else) and boot them off the train at the next stop.

Del2005

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

nope, should be allowed. All you need is a staffed train where those staff are actually capable and empowered to take action against travellers who take the piss with it (or anything else) and boot them off the train at the next stop.

Exactly. We already have plenty of laws relating to being intoxicated in public and anti social behaviour. We should start with enforcing these before introducing another law to ignore.

Don't forget that several years ago it was made an offence to be intoxicated in public and there was a big hullabaloo about it. Newstalk even had their reporter Henry with the top Dublin Garda in Templebar the night it came in and he asked was everyone going to be arrested now and the Garda said no. What they didn't say that it replaced a law that made it illegal to be intoxicated in public! See how well that went.

Rechuchote

I can't think of one time my journey has been improved by drunk people sharing it with me. But I can think of a few where screeching hen parties, quarrelsome gangs of lads or angry drunk families have made the journey a tense, unpleasant one. Yes, drunks and drink should be banned. They don't belong in a space shared by families, old people and children. Poll, please!

cython

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

that is part of the problem - very rarely would you see a 'quiet drunk' .. or if you do they are nearly falling over trying to get up out of a seat to walk down the carriage - i don't think that's an exaggeration is it?

Is this really a case of not seeing them, or simply not noticing them? I.e. say someone over the course of a 2 hour train ride were to have 2 cans, that's not going to have them that far gone in most cases, and unless you're sitting somewhere that you can see what they're drinking, you may well perceive them as not drinking at all. Just because you may not notice something does not mean it's non-existent.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

also a couple of more points:

Should minors on the train for a day out see/witness inebriated people in this state (of course they can get to see inebriated parents/family and other people on the streets and at wakes and at parties drunk too? but that's an issue maybe for another day)

As others have already alluded to, the problem here is not drinking alcohol on trains, but rather doing it to excess. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, or to punish the potential many people who avail of it without abusing it (see above RE observation) just because of some others who can't be trusted.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I thought I read somewhere the number of Guards/drivers being assaulted on the increase (either verbally or physically) and wonder how much of this could be attributed to drunk passengers on the train.

Not even going to address this, as something you think you remember reading is vague enough that you could also have imagined it, so not really worth addressing without a source.

Del2005

Rechuchote wrote: »

I can't think of one time my journey has been improved by drunk people sharing it with me. But I can think of a few where screeching hen parties, quarrelsome gangs of lads or angry drunk families have made the journey a tense, unpleasant one. Yes, drunks and drink should be banned. They don't belong in a space shared by families, old people and children. Poll, please!

They are already breaking several laws. Try fixing the problems with our current laws and if that doesn't work then look at changing the law.

Blanket banning alcohol will not stop the scumbags from drinking on the train all it'll do is make someone looking to enjoy a few drinks while on the train to move to the faster cheaper bus or car.

Del.Monte

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGXh4xsBo

CeilingFly

Sure if you banned it then the sensationalist indo wouldn't have headlines such as

"Stag party sing on train, you won't believe the reaction "

As for drinking on trains, they should operate some dry trains.

doolox

You need to have some dry carriages, just as in the days of smoking and non smoking carriages.

Rechuchote

cython wrote: »

As others have already alluded to, the problem here is not drinking alcohol on trains, but rather doing it to excess.

But what's "to excess"? The main hen party I remember ruining a journey to Galway for me were not terribly drunk, but they were squealing and screeching like a party of cow elephants in rut, and I don't think they'd have been so squealy without the oiling of the few cans that were before them on the tables.

Alcohol facilitates ill manners, and we in Ireland don't have the disapproving glares of other Europeans at ill manners.

Andy From Sligo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

nope, should be allowed. All you need is a staffed train where those staff are actually capable and empowered to take action against travellers who take the piss with it (or anything else) and boot them off the train at the next stop.

ah yes i would go with that solution too - wouldnt bother with the 'next stop' malarkey though, id pull the emergency cord and kick their sorry arse off right there and then no matter where the train is.

I was on a train once where there was this drunk causing a nuisance, of course none of the passengers done anything apart from the 'tut tut' and death stares ... but when he did get off at a stop some people started clapping . only staff on that train was person with refreshments trolley and he didnt do anything, even though he wall quite burly and could have chucked him off the train - I suppose they are not allowed to

Andy From Sligo

Del2005 wrote: »

Exactly. We already have plenty of laws relating to being intoxicated in public and anti social behaviour. We should start with enforcing these before introducing another law to ignore.

Don't forget that several years ago it was made an offence to be intoxicated in public and there was a big hullabaloo about it. Newstalk even had their reporter Henry with the top Dublin Garda in Templebar the night it came in and he asked was everyone going to be arrested now and the Garda said no. What they didn't say that it replaced a law that made it illegal to be intoxicated in public! See how well that went.

why are we so ****e in this country at enforcing laws? - is it because the Gardai cannot be bothered (maybe a lot of forms/paperwork to fill out) or maybe because the case gets to court and the judge throws it out or just imposes a paltry fine - either way, people are still holding a mobile phone to their ear and people are still rolling around drunk in public places and streets and places where children are playing like parks

J Mysterio

No. Encouraging nanny state nonsense.

Lord Glentoran

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Does anyone think the same as me that alcohol should be banned being brought onto Intercity Train services? and also intoxicated passengers forbidden on trains?

I dont know exactly how it could work though at the finer points. Maybe a search before people even get on the train and all cans etc confiscated or be made to put in luggage and the luggage/cases put into special luggage carriage on the train where passengers can collect when they get off?

I know a certain amount of people will find this shocking and too over the top but a blind eye also I think cannot be given to people taking a few cans and spirits on the trains and drinking themselves into a stupor on their journeys and making it intimidating and a risk to other passengers.

am intrigued to think of what others think about it.

No. Away tae feck with your nanny statism. If pax are causing a nuisance they can and should be put off, and the guards called.

Rechuchote

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

No. Away tae feck with your nanny statism. If pax are causing a nuisance they can and should be put off, and the guards called.

But they won't be.

Andy From Sligo

Del.Monte wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGXh4xsBo

what a bloody shíte father he is on that train. Rather stay on the train than get off to be with his family. Later on his son will grow up and go to psychologist and will say his early memory is waiting for Daddy to get off train and that he never got off

L1011

Without the high margin, long shelf life sales of booze I'd expect the trolley services to vanish entirely.

Pretzill

I don't think alcohol should be banned on the train, but I also don't believe you should be allowed travel long distances pissed out of your mind or be allowed to bring/drink your own alcohol on board. The price of the trolley beers and wine is enough to stop you getting too trollied and why should loud and nasty drunks feck it up for everyone else.

I'm fed up of the mainline trains trying to act like commuter transport. You should be able to have a glass of beer or wine with your lunch on a long rail journey and enjoy the comforts if that be your penchant.

Dial Hard

Andy From Sligo wrote:

what a bloody shíte father he is on that train. Rather stay on the train than get off to be with his family. Later on his son will grow up and go to psychologist and will say his early memory is waiting for Daddy to get off train and that he never got off

Even after 20 million-odd of your posts, I still can't actually tell if you're a troll or not.

Andy From Sligo

L1011 wrote: »

Without the high margin, long shelf life sales of booze I'd expect the trolley services to vanish entirely.

its surprising in one way how Irish Rail operate because this is the thing that they do have drinks trolleys so it makes you wonder how they allow people on with 6 packs and drink - mind you I suppose the drinks trolley is franchised out or something so IR dont care about that.

But also if travellers were just buying off the drinks trolley then at least it could be metered in some way and if someone looked like they had too much to drink they could be refused serving more alcohol to them like (what supposed to happen but rarely does) publicans do

Rechuchote

L1011 wrote: »

Without the high margin, long shelf life sales of booze I'd expect the trolley services to vanish entirely.

What baffles me most about the trolley service is how truly awful the food is, and how expensive. In a country that's had a wonderful food revolution in the last 30 years, the one haven of the soggy sad sandwich and dreary tea in unrecyclable paper cups is our railway. Maybe this is why people want to drink. They Drink To Forget (the taste of the sandwiches.)

MGWR

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Does anyone think the same as me that alcohol should be banned being brought onto Intercity Train services? and also intoxicated passengers forbidden on trains?

The former, no. The latter, yes; and I thought it was already banned and just a matter of enforcement?

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont know exactly how it could work though at the finer points. Maybe a search before people even get on the train and all cans etc confiscated or be made to put in luggage and the luggage/cases put into special luggage carriage on the train where passengers can collect when they get off?

I know a certain amount of people will find this shocking and too over the top but a blind eye also I think cannot be given to people taking a few cans and spirits on the trains and drinking themselves into a stupor on their journeys and making it intimidating and a risk to other passengers.

(I) am intrigued to think of what others think about it.

It takes more than "a few cans" to get someone drunk. A decent-sized bottle of spirit would do it faster. You contradict yourself: people in a stupor (which means to be near unconsciousness) are not awake enough to be aggressive drunks, but are certainly at risk of missing their station(s). And believe it or not, there are loads of people who consume alcohol in moderation and handle themselves quite well once off the train, so there is no reason to spoil their journey, because aggressive drunks would merely get their fix before boarding if such a ban were in effect.

Are you advocating for Shariah-style prohibition on the train, since you're deliberately conflating drinking with drunkenness and proposing a nanny-state-type solution? If this is just a troll post, so what if I bit the bait.

Rechuchote

MGWR wrote: »

It takes more than "a few cans" to get someone drunk.

Depends. Alcoholics who fall off the wagon can find themselves getting hopelessly drunk on a small amount of alcohol - their livers seem to behave as if they've continued drinking at the same level.

MGWR

Rechuchote wrote: »

But they won't be.

"They" won't be what? They (the drunks) won't be put off the train by the guards, or they (the guards) won't be summoned?

Spanish Eyes

Just have an IR person on the train watching things. But there are none, that is why pre booked seats taken up by someone else cause such angst.

It means passengers are doing the supervision.

Anyway, I have no problem with people having a few drinks, it is when it impacts on others, then it really is a problem. But people stay schtum, why? because there is no back up when things get really rowdy and obnoxious.

Anyway, I avoid trains at the weekends. It helps because the numpties are not having hen/staggers during the week Yay!

I'll drive if I have to visit somewhere over a weekend quite frankly. Sligo (Carrick on Shannon), Kilkenny and other places are no no's for train travel at the weekends due to the drunken hens and staggers. But not everyone has that choice I know.





Ifs and buts and maybes.

MGWR

Rechuchote wrote: »

Alcoholics who fall off the wagon can find themselves getting hopelessly drunk on a small amount of alcohol - their livers seem to behave as if they've continued drinking at the same level.

Vast majority of such types are "functional" and would not exhibit aggressive behaviour. And the last thing they would want to be doing is riding a train and paying extra for the on-board stuff. Never mind the small numbers taking intercity journeys by train.

Andy From Sligo

oh FGS would ya just stop with the "your a Troll" and "cannot make up my mind if you are trolling" stereotyping just because I am trying to have a decent conversation on here and trying to get others views on a subject that I think is worth discussing - I already said i know it will sound a bit OTT and not very popular maybe with some , but I am not trolling.

Now, can we get back to discussing and shelve the name calling and assumptions please?

fxotoole

I don’t support a full ban on alcohol on trains, as that would be unfair on the people who enjoy a few beers without making life miserable for everyone else on the train. I would suggest Irish rail contracting security on Intercity trains, like they have on the Luas, to deal with antisocial behaviour, excessively drunk people and agreesive threatening behaviour. I think Irish Rail staff haven’t the cojones to stand up to bullies on their trains. The catering staff shouldn’t be expected to do it, as it’s not their job.

They should also have security staff at Intercity gates, searching handbags for alcohol, and turning away anyone who’s already off-their-trolley drunk attempting to board the train.

Spanish Eyes

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh FGS would ya just stop with the "your a Troll" and "cannot make up my mind if you are trolling" stereotyping just because I am trying to have a decent conversation on here and trying to get others views on a subject that I think is worth discussing - I already said i know it will sound a bit OTT and not very popular maybe with some , but I am not trolling.

Now, can we get back to discussing and shelve the name calling and assumptions please?

Open forum, you have to be able to accept other views whether personal or not really!

Anyway have you anything to say about IR's failure to have any supervision on board? That would be a good start if people, not necessarily drinkers become obnoxious. Thanks.

Pretzill

Last year I was on a mainline train (wasn't in the best of form - heading home Friday evening)
Some eegit out of his head got on, he was shouting and verbally abusing passengers. I was sitting at the back of a long carriage - picked up the mobile phone rang the guards barracks at the next station - and he was taken off the train - I don't even think any other passengers noticed me doing it but the thought of listening to him for three hours was too much for me.

There should be security on these trains.

Spanish Eyes

Pretzill wrote: »

Last year I was on a mainline train (wasn't in the best of form - heading home Friday evening)
Some eegit out of his head got on, he was shouting and verbally abusing passengers. I was sitting at the back of a long carriage - picked up the mobile phone rang the guards barracks at the next station - and he was taken off the train - I don't even think any other passengers noticed me doing it but the thought of listening to him for three hours was too much for me.

There should be security on these trains.

There should be an IR person or two on these trains. I wonder why there isn't.

Everything else is outsourced, ie the food and drink element, so they cannot or will not intervene if something goes wrong.

Fair dues to you for reporting this. Did you find the number of the Garda Station online? I am absolutely amazed that the Garda would find the time to do this really, and that is no reflection on you at all. But a good outcome.

Passengers should not have to do this though.

Lord Glentoran

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh FGS would ya just stop with the "your a Troll" and "cannot make up my mind if you are trolling" stereotyping just because I am trying to have a decent conversation on here and trying to get others views on a subject that I think is worth discussing - I already said i know it will sound a bit OTT and not very popular maybe with some , but I am not trolling.

Now, can we get back to discussing and shelve the name calling and assumptions please?

We'll have a buidéal Óraiste, go raibh míle mhaith agat. *purses lips, zips up cardigan*

Pretzill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Did you find the number of the Garda Station online? I am absolutely amazed that the Garda would find the time to do this really, and that is no reflection on you at all. But a good outcome.

Passengers should not have to do this though.

No I rang 999 and asked for the gardai from the next town on the line (as I knew they had a barracks there) - I would absolutely expect the guards to do something put it this way if an abusive drunk was throwing his weight around a public place elsewhere it's only the guards who will deal with it.

Fire1985

I was on the 18:05 Connolly to Longford on Friday and 2 classy parents were drinking cans and then handing them to their 10 year old son to put in the bin. Packed train and it just looked terrible. Poor kid

Spanish Eyes

Pretzill wrote: »

No I rang 999 and asked for the gardai from the next town on the line (as I knew they had a barracks there) - I would absolutely expect the guards to do something put it this way if an abusive drunk was throwing his weight around a public place elsewhere it's only the guards who will deal with it.

Well done.

But there is a difference between being stuck on a train with no escape available and being in a public space where you can leave, isn't there?

Pretzill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well done.

But there is a difference between being stuck on a train with no escape available and being in a public space where you can leave, isn't there?

Exactly. It's worse to be stuck when someone is kicking off - this particular train was packed but still people were leaving the carriage to avoid the abuse. I had a feeling someone was going to be assaulted - I suppose I wasn't in the humour that particular evening another day I might have moved up the carriages too.

Andy From Sligo

yes, on one hand it great idea to have security member on all intercity trains, reckon it would have to be a private security firm supplying them though, cannot see IR adding their own staff as security. So then we have the issue of fares going up to employ these 'security guards'

OK another issue is that wherever bouncer type (and these security types employed will have to have some girth and muscles on them, not weedy type) security people are involved (such as doormen on clubs/pubs) then as the drunk/rowdy passenger is being accosted or detained there is room for more shout outs of swearing and abuse and a few punches and kicks thrown maybe from the disgruntled and drunk passenger - so lest us not forgot that these carriages are shared with families and young children who could be very traumitised (maybe more traumatised than just watching a drunk rolling around, vomititing / swearing/wetting themselves / passed out) by seeing an an atercation with a security guard trying to accost a drunk person and blood involved and 'lots' of swearing and violence.

So this is a risk - if there was a zero tollerence attitude and it was enforced properly and Irish Rail had signs up at stations and on trains sayng "Irish rail do not tolerate any drunken behavior on its trains and we prosecute and take actions in all circumstances" (and mean it , and enforce it) - then there we be no margins for error. everyone will know where they stand and there will be no ignorance when the person is caught and charged with being drunk in a public area can be told "you have already been warned that it is ilegal to be drunk on public transport" and then everyone will know where they stand and familes (welland other passengers really) can be assure when they travel on a train it will be a pleasant experience with no chance of any altercations between intoxicated/inebriated people and passengers/members of the public (who lets face it when they are travelling on a train they are under the care of Irish Rail which should look after the care of its passengers at all times)

I Am The Law

No.

Andy From Sligo

Pretzill wrote: »

Exactly. It's worse to be stuck when someone is kicking off - this particular train was packed but still people were leaving the carriage to avoid the abuse. I had a feeling someone was going to be assaulted - I suppose I wasn't in the humour that particular evening another day I might have moved up the carriages too.

shouldnt have to though really eh? - you pay your ticket , you deserve not to get up and move carriages , just because a few people cannot travel a few hours on a journey without getting bladdered

MGWR

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh FGS would ya just stop with the "your (sic) a Troll" and "cannot make up my mind if you are trolling" stereotyping just because I am trying to have a decent conversation on here and trying to get others views on a subject that I think is worth discussing - I already said i know it will sound a bit OTT and not very popular maybe with some, but I am not trolling.

Now, can we get back to discussing and shelve the name calling and assumptions please?

This type of post signals a move from concern trolling (the original post) to the more typical ad hominem trolling. It will only serve to confirm the suspicions of those who think the OP is a troll post.

Andy From Sligo

MGWR wrote: »

This type of post signals a move from concern trolling (the original post) to the more typical ad hominem trolling. It will only serve to confirm the suspicions of those who think the OP is a troll post.

oh blimey - you think that if thats what you want , with people like you that assume like that its futile to try and convince otherwise...

Heres Johnny

No, but annoying other passengers by being loud and obnoxious should be.

Can't be a nanny state because of some idiots. Hen parties should just be banned from everywhere anyway.

Pretzill

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

shouldnt have to though really eh? - you pay your ticket , you deserve not to get up and move carriages , just because a few people cannot travel a few hours on a journey without getting bladdered

The thing is Andy from Sligo this person got on at the first stop already drunk/drugged/out of his head. It wasn't as though he was getting drunk along the journey. He was abusive to begin with.

Many years ago a long train journey was a day out - complete with a packed lunch or the choice of hot food and alcohol too on board. Good humoured, relaxed travel with chatter and laughter. Now trains even intercity ones are busy commuters - people live far from work and they can be tense, packed, sweaty places. Uncomfortable with overpriced trolley service and no IR staff to be seen -

We never get what we pay for when it comes to our train service in my opinion. I will nearly always drive now and I used to love the train.

Andy From Sligo

Pretzill wrote: »

The thing is Andy from Sligo this person got on at the first stop already drunk/drugged/out of his head. It wasn't as though he was getting drunk along the journey. He was abusive to begin with.

Many years ago a long train journey was a day out - complete with a packed lunch or the choice of hot food and alcohol too on board. Good humoured, relaxed travel with chatter and laughter. Now trains even intercity ones are busy commuters - people live far from work and they can be tense, packed, sweaty places. Uncomfortable with overpriced trolley service and no IR staff to be seen -

We never get what we pay for when it comes to our train service in my opinion. I will nearly always drive now and I used to love the train.

I am glad I dont use the trains regurlary now these days, just once in a while now. - I have never took the bus/bus eareann personally ever, I dont know how I would be on one now , maybe they are better. But years ago when i took a coach/bus in the UK I used to get awful travel sick with them and a phobia because they didnt have a toilet on board and had to wait for the next 'drivers break' to go to the loo. - as I say the coaches use to make me travel sick, but I never used to feel travel sick on the trains, even long journeys. Never did find out why that was, but much preferred to travel by train.

In the UK I used to get 'off peak return' for a day trip. It meant you couldnt travel until after 9.30am and then couldnt travel around 6pm in the evening but it was cheaper.

MGWR

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh blimey - you think that if thats (sic) what you want , with people like you that assume like that its futile to try and convince otherwise...

Repeat of ad hominem is unlikely to convince me otherwise. And since I'm not the one presenting the evidence, I'm not guilty of confirmation bias.

Caveats of being "over the top" is a tacit admission to concern trolling. Never mind conflating two distinct situations, i.e. the sales of alcoholic beverages on an intercity train and the possible danger of aggressive drunks on an intercity train.

cobzzq

I have one word YES.............NO DRUNKS

Andy From Sligo

just so we are straight I am going to refrain on this thread of answering back posts on this thread about me personally and the accusations of trolling and just continue to discuss the main issue of the thread here.

But feel free if you wish to continue to attack me (are you trying to get a rise out of me?) - but you understand if I dont reply to your posts any more ...

Del.Monte

In answer to the OP, drunk people/people with slabs of beer etc. should not be allowed board a train but given automated ticket barriers and the virtual disappearance of CIE staff....The only answer is to staff the trains properly but now that's not going to happen. The current nonsense about getting platform staff out of the stations and onto the trains is just that - nonsense. It is designed to prompt surplus staff to take redundancy.