Succession [HBO] *Spoilers*

odyssey06

The Journal with a review of the finale and series in perspective:

https://www.thejournal.ie/succession-review-6081225-May2023/

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660723#Comment_120660723

If you have decided that Tom won then you really haven't a clue.

Tom is just a buffoon in the show who kisses ass.

Tom wants to keep his job and agrees to be CEO because Matsson wants it. It's not like he had a grand plan at any stage.

As for Shiv, she shoes a cunning, ruthless personality who decides to cut her brothers out until she hears that Matsson is backstabbing her. She then decides to destroy Matsson's plans which also fits her character. She then becomes an emotional mess at the very last second which doesn't fit with her personality.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660731#Comment_120660731

Not sure - seemed like Tom was indicating that he was only keeping Greg on because he "owned" him now.

It wasn't really made clear why Shiv freaked out in voting for kendall which is why there is so many theories floating around. Their argument in the other room really showed why they were all unsuitable to take on the role, Shiv being too emotional, Roman being snarky and cowardly and Ken being pathetic and violent.

eagle eye

A much better ending would have been them all celebrating as they won the battle with Mattson and then losing control of the business to Ewan which would have been an awesome end.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661083#Comment_120661083

You're really on your own with the opinion that Tom didn't win. The vast majority of consensus of posters here, critics, media, You Tube reviewrs is that Tom did win. He may be a buffoon but who kisses ass but he got job as CEO that the other 3 all craved.

How is that not a win?

Also what Shiv did fits right in with her character. Doing whatever it takes to survive no matter what the cost or humiiation.

Unlike Kendall who was all or nothing and in the end he had nothing.

If you don't see/understand this then you didn't really get the show.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661150#Comment_120661150

Looking forward to seeing your own fantastic show being aired as you seem to find writing so easy.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661150#Comment_120661150

How would Ewan have taken control of the business?

Officer999

Maybe I missed it in previous episodes but why wasn’t Conor on the board?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661150#Comment_120661150

I think a great finale should always satisfy the following criteria; once you've seen it, whether you saw what was coming or not, you realise there was really no other way it could have ended. That the ending stayed true to the theme of the show, the development of the characters, and concludes the story, and that all roads really did lead to that point.

If they'd tried to pull some big reveal that, for your example to work, Logan had actually written a newer will before he died making Ewan CEO because none of his kids deserved it, that would have been an absolute balls of an ending. A shocking surprise for the sake of it. A twist to render the theme of the show and development of the characters pretty meaningless.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661363#Comment_120661363

Connor would hold a lot of shares in the company, but he was never part of the business or on the board of directors. Ewan was there from the start of the company before leaving, but stayed on the board of directors to keep his vote in such matters.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661273#Comment_120661273

Unnecessary. You could say that to anyone who voices any opinion about any show, including yourself. An opinion is all it is.

growleaves

A few years as GoJoWaystar CEO and Tom can walk into CEO jobs in other big companies. He will be set up for life essentially. His career is elevated above Shiv's and it will stay elevated even after Mattson jettisons him.

Remember Rhea Jarrell from Season 2? She was hopping from one CEO job to another.

Cloudio9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660924#Comment_120660924

I don't think you can dismiss the blood line spat when the three of them were in the room fighting at the end. It's never over, she is enormously rich so could potentially buy back Waystar at some future point in time.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661563#Comment_120661563

It's not unnecessary. I'm voicing my opinion that the poster’s viewpoint is simply wrong and to go for a twist ending as suggested is just daft . The poster is posting here in numerous posts that the ending is poor and that goes against practically everypoint I've read here and on various media outlets as well as discussions on You Tube.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661266#Comment_120661266

It's a win if it's your target all along. He's just a buffoon.

Anybody putting Tom down as the winner really isn't very smart.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661524#Comment_120661524

No, I'm saying that Ewan seizes control not that he's handed it. You could even have a scene where it's hinted that he's handing over the keys to Greg.

So many ways to look at that such as the guy that worked on the ground floor, which Kendall, Roy and Shiv never did, has earned it and is capable of it. He showed that by selling out Tom to put himself in a good position no matter which way things fell.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661342#Comment_120661342

By calling a vote on who's the new leader. All the shareholders were in the room to vote on the Matsson deal.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661266#Comment_120661266

As for the other part of your post, Shiv didn't survive, she's out just like her brothers.

She wanted to run the firm all through the show.

Suggesting her way of surviving was to sell out to Matsson is plain stupid. She hated Matsson for backstabbing her. She has no influence over the future by selling to him. She has the option to sell her shares if she wants.

She's let Matsson who she now detests win.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661785#Comment_120661785

I think that would put most of the audience in that bracket of being not smart then. Tom is shallow, only interested in money and was desperate to stay at the company, so being a rich CEO is a dream for him. The only downside in the ending is that his relationship with Shiv is back to being as toxic as ever but now he has betrayed her one more time.

HalloweenJack

A standout moment for me from that last episode was Greg standing up to Tom, especially bitch-slapping him when Tom was going nuts at him.

I think Tom is holding on to Greg because he knows he's ambitious and ruthless yet the doe-eyed innocence fools people. I'd say there's a lot of respect but little trust.

I think Tom is the winner. He's basically a joke for most of the series but he makes the right moves and he's the one in power at the end. Whether that might not be for long under Matsson and just how much power he really has, he weaseled his way into the family and came out on top.

While it felt like Shiv was the dominant one in that relationship, it's likely that he's now in that role and I wonder just how much Shiv believes she'll really be able to manipulate him and how successful that'll be.

HalloweenJack

Also, I may be late to the party but Shiv's nickname being the same as that of a hidden weapon may be a not-so-subtle indication of her character.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661984#Comment_120661984

Didnt really notice that. Just though it allows non gaeilge speaking people know how to pronounce Siobhan

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661831#Comment_120661831

But how can he seize control? He may be Logan's brother, but he had no more or less power in that room than anyone else. He also just couldn't hand it over to Greg. There's no way the other directors would have gone with it. Ewan hasn't worked in the company (or any company) in decades and is staunchly anti-capitalist, and also hates that Greg has already been corrupted by it to the extent of cutting him out of his will.

Even if he did call for a vote for a new CEO, Frank would have been the obvious choice and would have taken the deal with Matsson. The only difference it would have made would be Kendall, Shiv and Roman fail because of decisions made by others, rather than the result of their own character arcs.

HalloweenJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662005#Comment_120662005

It only occurred to me as I was writing that post, I understood the same as yourself throughout the whole run.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661953#Comment_120661953

The 'interview' between Tom and Matsson in the restaurant did seem like a real sliding doors moment for Tom in more ways than one. He had another man say to his face that he wants to ride his wife and that's the main reason he wants to hire him for a job, and then explicitly seek his reaction to that statement, and instead of showing some backbone and demonstrating that he has some level of dignity and self-worth beyond career ambition, Tom just bent over.

I reckon he knows that he has accepted his place as a worm. So although he has consciously put career and status above everything else in his life, he is also ashamed and emasculated.

HalloweenJack

I think that ship sailed when Shiv told him on their wedding night that she wanted to have an open marriage.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662120#Comment_120662120

Good point!

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661864#Comment_120661864

Shiv survived as she gets a massive payout and realised that neither she nor her brothers were right for the CEO job.

So whilst she's defeated , the goalposts have moved for her and she's done the best she can as she's managed to have some relationship with Tom, which she showed that she wanted earlier in the episode and also her forthcoming child will grow up with their father around.

lmahoney79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661785#Comment_120661785

Calling everyone who disagrees with you 'stupid' and 'not very smart' is uncalled for. People can have opinions without having to agree with yours and that doesn't make them stupid. We are just discussing a TV show.

rtron

Was thinking more about the scene with Logan the board members on the TV. Having a roast and a sing song, Conor was also present but didn't look like the other 3 were. Kinda like that was logans real family?

Also shiv had to ask Karl and Frank "how bad was her dad" or something to that affect...Actually thought the answer was hilarious 🤣 'he was a bad b*stard, but a good egg' (to that affect)

I think was another sign for the argument she knew Kendall was 'bullshit' for the role when she saw how he behaved in the CEO chair.